Pablo Records

[trane_fanatic]

Personally, I'd stay away from most of the Ella Fitzgeralds.

Ray

What's wrong w/ the Ella sides? She's in consistently fine form throughout, at least based on the Pablo concert comp in this thread.

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=44796

[Hot Ptah]

Dizzy Gillespie's last great record.

Totally agree ! Very fine 2LP set, will dig it out.

This is one I don't have. I ordered it from Newbury, through amazon--it's only $6.99.

What is the title in reference to? Something Brazilian--Bossa? Blakey's nickname was Buhania, which is close--he's not on this album, though, is he?

I think it refers to Dizzy's Baha'i faith--he was reportedly devout and it was a major part of his life after 1970.

[BillF]

Dizzy Gillespie's last great record.

Totally agree ! Very fine 2LP set, will dig it out.

This is one I don't have. I ordered it from Newbury, through amazon--it's only $6.99.

What is the title in reference to? Something Brazilian--Bossa? Blakey's nickname was Buhania, which is close--he's not on this album, though, is he?

I guess it refers to the music of the Brazilian state of Bahia.

[marcello]

Bill F is correct.

Meaning: Of or from Bahia (Salvador), Brazil

Pronunciation: bah-hee-AY-nuh

[gmonahan]

Does anybody know what the very first Pablo record ever issued was? I'm thinking it was Basie's "For the First Time," but I may be very wrong. Seems like it was the first one I ever saw in a record store.

It appears from Jazzdisco.org that the first few were:

Peterson/Pass/Pedersen - The Trio

Fitzgerald/Pass - Take Love Easy

Duke Ellington - Duke's Big 4

So I was wrong again. Like THAT'S a surprise. Thanks for the response!

Greg Mo

[mjzee]

Does anybody know what the very first Pablo record ever issued was? I'm thinking it was Basie's "For the First Time," but I may be very wrong. Seems like it was the first one I ever saw in a record store.

It appears from Jazzdisco.org that the first few were:

Peterson/Pass/Pedersen - The Trio

Fitzgerald/Pass - Take Love Easy

Duke Ellington - Duke's Big 4

So I was wrong again. Like THAT'S a surprise. Thanks for the response!

Greg Mo

I"m not saying I'm right, either; it's just an educated guess based on the discographical info at jazzdisco.org (assuming that's correct). But the odds are good.

[RDK]

Personally, I'd stay away from most of the Ella Fitzgeralds.

Ray

What's wrong w/ the Ella sides? She's in consistently fine form throughout, at least based on the Pablo concert comp in this thread.

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=44796

Hell, I can't remember why I said something last week let alone almost five years ago! lol

Probably just with all the Ella material out there - and I'm a big fan - I find most of her Pablo sides to be among her weakest. There's some fine stuff, but not on par with most of her Verve albums.

[Christiern]

A slight aside, although decidedly Pablo related. Granz was charging more for his Pablos than others were for their albums. I thought the cover were pretty pedestrian (apart from the lack of color) and I pointed it out in an otherwise positive review. This letter was Norman's response. Reading it 31 years later, I admit that he did make some valid points, but I still think he should made the price more reasonable--especially since the packaging was so cheap looking. Blue note had good photos, Pablo did not--look at that awful Bahiana cover he gave Dizzy, and the lettering looks like it was made with a Scripto kit. BTW, Granz was equally cheap when it came to the audio quality of his early LPs.

Anyway, I thought the letter was worth keeping.

[marcello]

Well Chris, I bet the glossy covers cost a little bit more than a regular cover.

I never liked too many of Phil Bray's photographs at the time, but now I can dig them, but I think Pablo had real style, good style, overall. I feel when they went to color, it was a downgrade.

One thing that I never liked, and still don't, was Benny Green's liner notes.

[marcello]

[Christiern]

I agree re Benny Green's notes--never understood why he used him so much. The photo of Oscar and Basie is okay, but look at the text--it veritably screams "budget"

As I recall, glossy covers were not at all uncommon.

[RDK]

Yeah, that Bahiana cover is horrible. Looks like Dizzy got punched in the mouth by Jake LaMotta.

[Hot Ptah]

I agree re Benny Green's notes--never understood why he used him so much. The photo of Oscar and Basie is okay, but look at the text--it veritably screams "budget"

As I recall, glossy covers were not at all uncommon.

I often had the thought after reading Benny Green's notes, of "what did I just read, now?" I came to marvel at how he could fill the back of an album cover with virtually nothing.

[Hot Ptah]

Chris, I love the letter from Norman Granz. Amazing that someone in his position would take so much time and energy on something like that.

What I found to be even more amazing about Pablo's lack of album graphics was the the series of albums that looked like this:

This was in an era before CDs, where there was much attention paid to LP cover artwork by even small indie labels. The complete lack of effort by Pablo seemed at times to be a willful design statement of its own, much like the punk rock albums of the time rejecting fancy color artwork and going for crude black and white, amateurish covers as a statement of rebellion.

[Christiern]

Yes, Hot P, that's what I'm talking about--even w. color, he shows his "let them eat cake" attitude towards the customer. A lot of great music, but terrible cover, liner notes, and--for too long--audio. However, it all went the right way, eventually.

[thomastreichler]

Yes, Hot P, that's what I'm talking about--even w. color, he shows his "let them eat cake" attitude towards the customer. A lot of great music, but terrible cover, liner notes, and--for too long--audio. However, it all went the right way, eventually.

You mentioned the one thing that is even more annoying than the scanty covers, namely the sound. Most of the Pablos have very poor sound - all this great performers would have deserved better recording / sound engineering. There are a lot of 50's records with way higher audio quality than a great part of the Pablo albums (e.g. Contemporary, Riverside, Prestige).

[Hot Ptah]

I always wondered if those red, white and blue Pablo covers with only words on them, with recordings from the Montreux festival, were a highly cynical attempt to cash in on the Bicentennial and the surge of buying of cheap patriotic products that came in its wake.

[Stefan Wood]

Yes, Hot P, that's what I'm talking about--even w. color, he shows his "let them eat cake" attitude towards the customer. A lot of great music, but terrible cover, liner notes, and--for too long--audio. However, it all went the right way, eventually.

You mentioned the one thing that is even more annoying than the scanty covers, namely the sound. Most of the Pablos have very poor sound - all this great performers would have deserved better recording / sound engineering. There are a lot of 50's records with way higher audio quality than a great part of the Pablo albums (e.g. Contemporary, Riverside, Prestige).

Which ones? I routinely come across thick vinyl, excellent sounding Pablo lps (Gillespie, Milt Jackson, etc.)

[gmonahan]

I agree re Benny Green's notes--never understood why he used him so much. The photo of Oscar and Basie is okay, but look at the text--it veritably screams "budget"

As I recall, glossy covers were not at all uncommon.

I often had the thought after reading Benny Green's notes, of "what did I just read, now?" I came to marvel at how he could fill the back of an album cover with virtually nothing.

That's interesting. I always liked Green's notes. They struck me as particularly literate and not your usual album liners. They were sure better than those cases in which Grantz cheaped out by not having any liners at all! That said, he did have a reputation for paying his people well, so if the money had to go somewhere, better there than to cool photos and script...I guess!

Greg Mo

[thomastreichler]

Yes, Hot P, that's what I'm talking about--even w. color, he shows his "let them eat cake" attitude towards the customer. A lot of great music, but terrible cover, liner notes, and--for too long--audio. However, it all went the right way, eventually.

You mentioned the one thing that is even more annoying than the scanty covers, namely the sound. Most of the Pablos have very poor sound - all this great performers would have deserved better recording / sound engineering. There are a lot of 50's records with way higher audio quality than a great part of the Pablo albums (e.g. Contemporary, Riverside, Prestige).

Which ones? I routinely come across thick vinyl, excellent sounding Pablo lps (Gillespie, Milt Jackson, etc.)

I have to check my collection for details, but the following albums immediately come to mind:

Milt Jackson + Count Basie Big Band, poor balance, kind of muffled sound

"Prime Time" by the Count Basie Big Band IMHO has particularly poor audio quality (artistically it is a fine record, benefitting from Sammy Nestico's arrangements).

Admittedly there are Pablo albums with satisfying sound quality, but IMO the Pablo records in general are not on a par with the audio standards of the time.

[sidewinder]

kind of muffled sound

A lot of them are a bit like that. Almost as if there was some excessive filtering of the recordings, especially at the top end.

They always seemed to sound better to me on cassette !

[AllenLowe]

I walways thought that Benny Green was the WORST jazz writer ever and unreadable; funny, however, that I never noticed any sound issues-

however, Granz did issue what is, to me, one of the most important recordings of that era - Mary Lou Williams at Montreaux - the one document she left from that time that was not a boorish "I am the blues and I'll show you" kinda thing -

[mikeweil]

don't know if anybody mentioned the Duke Ellington small group session (can't remember the title) - best thing is a Duke blues in which the melody starts on a major 7th -

This one?

One of my favourite Ellington albums - great combination of players!

[Steve Gray]

I am really surprised by the anti Benny Green feelings expressed here.

I personally enjoyed Benny's sleeve notes enormously.

But then I probably come to him from a different angle to you guys.

I'm English, he was English, and I spent my teens getting to know Jazz partly through his radio programs in the 60s.

When Kind of Blue was first issued in England, it had notes by Benny which I thought were a model of intelligent writing.

[Hot Ptah]

I am really surprised by the anti Benny Green feelings expressed here.

I personally enjoyed Benny's sleeve notes enormously.

But then I probably come to him from a different angle to you guys.

I'm English, he was English, and I spent my teens getting to know Jazz partly through his radio programs in the 60s.

When Kind of Blue was first issued in England, it had notes by Benny which I thought were a model of intelligent writing.

What bugged me about Green's writing is that it presented its author as a knowing, literary, intelligent guy but then did not fulfill its own presentation, in my opinion. I would start out thinking, this is going to be good, what a well rounded, sophisticated writer, but then there would be not much substance there.