Sly & the Family Stone upcoming catalog upgrade

[Peter]

ah well . . ., excuse my rant.

[md655321]

These sound fantastic. Those early releases were just obscene. I know what I will be listening to for the next few weeks.

[Adam]

Well I played about half of There's a Riot last night at pretty high volume - it sounds MUCH better than the old version (granted, that's not hard) - Poetry in particular pratically sounds like a different song! Looking forward to getting some real time with this set.

Well, that's a question with There's a Riot... Should it be made to sound "good?" It seems to me that an essential part of it is its murkiness (like Exile on Main Street). In what way does it sound "better?"

[J Larsen]

Well I played about half of There's a Riot last night at pretty high volume - it sounds MUCH better than the old version (granted, that's not hard) - Poetry in particular pratically sounds like a different song! Looking forward to getting some real time with this set.

Well, that's a question with There's a Riot... Should it be made to sound "good?" It seems to me that an essential part of it is its murkiness (like Exile on Main Street). In what way does it sound "better?"

The old version sounded like a fifth generation tape of a murky record that was dubbed over an old Ozzy casette. This sounds like a cool-sounding murky record.

[Peter]

I can very clearly remember being the in basement of Boston Store (a Milwaukee area department store) when I was 14 (1971) trying to choose between "There's a Riot Goin' On" or Rare's Earth's "One World". I chose Rare Earth. One of my first 2 or 3 lp purchases. I don't think I would have understood Riot back then. The thing about "There's a Riot Goin' On" is it's sooo dark compared to the prior lps.

[zen archer]

Listening to FRESH last night it sounded like a different record. Especially IN TIME when the

sax comes in on my old cd it drops out in the middle of the solo .

On the new remaster it doesn't drop off..i use to always wonder why Sly did this or that maybe the tape

was old but i guess not, also Que Sera sounds incredible.

[zen archer]

Well I played about half of There's a Riot last night at pretty high volume - it sounds MUCH better than the old version (granted, that's not hard) - Poetry in particular pratically sounds like a different song! Looking forward to getting some real time with this set.

Well, that's a question with There's a Riot... Should it be made to sound "good?" It seems to me that an essential part of it is its murkiness (like Exile on Main Street). In what way does it sound "better?"

The old version sounded like a fifth generation tape of a murky record that was dubbed over an old Ozzy casette. This sounds like a cool-sounding murky record.

I would LOVE to see a RIOT SESSIONS Box set there must be tons of stuff from those sessions.

[BruceH]

Bottom line - they're weasles.

Looks like it.

[felser]

According to a post in this thread, these will be included on "Greatest Hits" later this year.

And there are excellent remasters of them on the "Essential" 2CD set which came out several months ago.

[JSngry]

Don't know how much detail the box annotation gives, but I read a seemingly well-researched article (lots of firsthand accounts) that gave background on why Riot sounded like it did. Among the reasons:

• Everybody was as loaded as they sounded.
  
  
• The album was recorded on the run. Sly had been getting heat, some of it pretty blunt, from various political groups, and paranoia, both legit and imagined, had set in. The whole band, but especially Sly, had become somewhat of a "moving target".
  
  
• As a "favor" to various groupies, drug connections, political "messengers", etc., the tapes were used to put down innumerable "guest vocals". By the time it came to lay the real vocal tracks, the tape had been recorded overr literally hundreds (some estimated thousands) of times. The tape degradtion was real, not an effect.
  

So, There's A Riot Goin' On wasn't just a political title. It was also a direct personal commentary.

[Big Al]

I've been going through each album one day at a time, and today I'm on STAND. Will post when I get to RIOT (might take a few days before getting there, as I wanna soak up the first four albums worth of grooves first!)

Oh yeah, have I mentioned how FANTASTIC these discs sound?

[Soulstation1]

still no credit on my debit card for this set from BB.....

maybe something will be in the mail other than bills

Edited April 13, 2007 by Soulstation1

[Peter]

Don't know how much detail the box annotation gives, but I read a seemingly well-researched article (lots of firsthand accounts) that gave background on why Riot sounded like it did. Among the reasons:

• Everybody was as loaded as they sounded.
  
  
• The album was recorded on the run. Sly had been getting heat, some of it pretty blunt, from various political groups, and paranoia, both legit and imagined, had set in. The whole band, but especially Sly, had become somewhat of a "moving target".
  
  
• As a "favor" to various groupies, drug connections, political "messengers", etc., the tapes were used to put down innumerable "guest vocals". By the time it came to lay the real vocal tracks, the tape had been recorded overr literally hundreds (some estimated thousands) of times. The tape degradtion was real, not an effect.
  

So, There's A Riot Goin' On wasn't just a political title. It was also a direct personal commentary.

Would like to read the articles. Could you post a link and/or cite? Thanks.

[JSngry]

Not online that I know of. Might've been in Mojo or some similar pub. Ca. 1993.

[Peter]

Ah, another MOJO reader!

[zen archer]

Don't know how much detail the box annotation gives, but I read a seemingly well-researched article (lots of firsthand accounts) that gave background on why Riot sounded like it did. Among the reasons:

• Everybody was as loaded as they sounded.
  
  
• The album was recorded on the run. Sly had been getting heat, some of it pretty blunt, from various political groups, and paranoia, both legit and imagined, had set in. The whole band, but especially Sly, had become somewhat of a "moving target".
  
  
• As a "favor" to various groupies, drug connections, political "messengers", etc., the tapes were used to put down innumerable "guest vocals". By the time it came to lay the real vocal tracks, the tape had been recorded overr literally hundreds (some estimated thousands) of times. The tape degradtion was real, not an effect.
  

So, There's A Riot Goin' On wasn't just a political title. It was also a direct personal commentary.

Would like to read the articles. Could you post a link and/or cite? Thanks.

you can also read the 33 1/3 "Theres a riot goin on " by Miles Marshall Lewis it does take stuff from the mojo article.

http://33third.blogspot.com/

[Adam]

I wish that blogspot were slightly better organized.

[Peter]

[ejp626]

My wife said that it had shown up today (from BestBuy), so I will check it out soon. I was starting to think they had figured out a way to cancel orders still in the mail. Sorry it didn't work out for more of us.

[Big Al]

Check out this interview with Larry Graham:

April 18, 2007 - Larry Graham ear-tests the reissues

An article by Peter S. Scholtes - Minneapolis City Pages - April 18, 2007

As bassist and cavern-voiced backup singer for Sly and the Family Stone, Larry Graham helped invent modern music's bottom end. His "thumpin' and pluckin'" on classics such as 1970's "Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)" defined funk, while his subsequent solo career with Graham Central Station is the stuff of YouTube gold—that's Graham's wife Tina dancing with the band to "Pow" on Soul Train. Today, the Grahams live near an apple-tree farm in Chanhassen, Minnesota, and are proud grandparents of two boys; five-year-old Jaiden accompanies Larry on a tiny drum set. Graham hasn't released an album since 1998's GCS 2000 on Prince's NPG Records label, but he continues to perform live, record, and hang out with Prince.

With Sly Stone readying a comeback album in Napa, California, and Sly and the Family Stone's still-revolutionary-sounding first seven albums being reissued this month on Epic/Legacy, Graham agreed to sit down and listen to some of the remastered bonus tracks and perennials, offering his reminiscences.

"Underdog" (mono single version) from A Whole New Thing (1967)

My first dog was Underdog, and he came after the song. He was a basset hound. I took him on the road with me to New York City, and he stayed in the hotel for months. That's Freddy [stewart] on trombone, Sly's brother. Not many people know that. This music is part of my sitting here, my fiber, it's who I am. And I'm sure [drummer] Greg [Errico] feels the same way. It's who he is. We could get together any time and that same chemistry would happen. We didn't have a name when we went to rehearsal at Sly's parents' house in San Francisco. With a great drummer like Greg Errico, even though I'm playing drums on the bass, he played around me some kind of way. We just complemented each other, and it worked. There was no other drummer on the planet playing like that. I think a part of the genius of Sly is that we were all allowed a lot of creative freedom.

"We Love All" (previously unreleased) from Dance to the Music (1968)

That's Freddy's voice. He's an incredible guitar player and influential even to this day, not necessarily a lead guitarist like Hendrix, but his rhythm playing is off the chain. But what some folks don't remember is his voice, 'cause he wasn't featured on as many songs. But Freddy would sing "Try a Little Tenderness" and the whole house would be in tears.

"Pressure" (previously unreleased) from Life (1968)

What comes to my mind is the unselfishness of Sly. He's the leader of the band and he's not trying to hog the show. He got me and Freddy sharing a vocal part, but he really featured his sister Rose [stewart]. So right from the beginning—and this is before we were really famous—he said, "Hey, I want you guys to be as famous as I am." For a band, the confidence that gives everybody is tremendous.

"I Want to Take You Higher" (mono single version) from Stand! (1969)

This was probably one of the first songs other than "Dance to the Music" that really highlighted my fuzz bass. Back in the day, they weren't making things for bass players; everything was for guitar players. I had to experiment and see what would work. We were coming out of the era where you were either the singing group or the band. We were the group and the band, which was kind of unique for the time. The capper of it all would be Woodstock, for this time. Out front, what was going on was great, but the greatest part of Woodstock was what was going on backstage between musicians, the camaraderie, hooking up with people that would become lifelong friends. I hooked up with David Brown, the bass player for Carlos Santana at that time, and we became best buddies. I had two dogs that were my favorite ever, saluki, Egyptian dogs, and I gave him one.

"My Brain (Zig-Zag)" (previously unreleased) from Stand! (1969)

I don't have anything to say about that one. That's not you playing bass here? I don't have anything to say about that one [smiles].

"Family Affair" from There's a Riot Going On (1971)

It was true of the group, we were like a family. We did a lot of things together. We road motorcycles together. We bought dogs together. I had my saluki, the fastest. Freddy had the tallest, an Irish wolfhound. Sly had a pit bull. Greg and Jerry had the biggest gray Pyrenees. So we did a lot of stuff together. That song rings a lot of truth.

The song also has the marriage breaking up in the second part. Did any of that come from the pain of the group breaking up?

To me, it's like, at some point—well, you left home. Is it because you hate your parents? No, it's because you move on. It has nothing to do with love or hate. You left home because it was time. To this day, most people can go back to their parents' home and get a hug, get a meal, and get a room. We leave that relationship intact. That's the way that all of us [in Sly and the Family Stone] basically feel.

Have you ever talked about getting everybody back together again?

I think there have been some attempts. At the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame [in 1993], we didn't play, but we went there. I was at the Grammys [last year] but I didn't play. I didn't get a chance to see Sly there. But I did see him at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And at the [2001] R&B [Foundation Pioneer Award] in New York, he didn't come, but everybody else did. I had the privilege of playing with other members of the band. That was real cool.

Let's set the record straight once and for all: Are you on 1973's Fresh?

I'm on "Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be)" and "If It Were Left Up to Me."

Man, talk about rose-colored glasses. Or maybe revisionist history. I don't know; obviously since I wasn't there, I really can't argue. But doesn't this go against pretty-near EVERYTHING I've read about that time?

[Big Al]

thanks for posting & commentary-- i'm reading that like... what is this shit?

Q: i've forgotten is Larry a goddamn (not sorry) Jehovah's Witness (World HQ: Brooklyn)?

Last time I checked. Good friends with Prince, also a JW of late. What goes around, I guess...

[JSngry]

It was all about the dogs, the Sly experience was.

[Adam]

They had one copy at Amoeba in Hollywood of the box for $63. I passed at that price. When are the individual albums coming out?

[Big Al]

They had one copy at Amoeba in Hollywood of the box for $63. I passed at that price. When are the individual albums coming out?

Get the box. I'm serious. Music has rarely been this revelatory for me. IMHO, all of these albums need to be heard from the first to the last to get the true Sly effect and story.

How good is this box? The first four albums are nothing short of a butt-shakin' joy, the sound as clear and punchy as we could ever have hoped for. The old cliche of "If you can't dance to this, check yer pulse" couldn't be more applicabel than it is here!

I'm finally getting to Riot and beyond. Vic Anesini has done the impossible with Riot: he's taken the murky fog and brought it right out into the open and into your face so that you have no choice but to face it head-on. I'd always imagined that a cleaned-up Riot would be a let-down, because it was never supposed to sound clean, slick, or commercialized. The new remaster is none of those things; what it is is a full technicolor nightmare with the wounds still fresh, but even rawer than before. Nowhere is this more evident than on "Africa Talks To You (The Asphalt Jungle)." The only way I'd ever heard this was on the old CD version, which was muddy, hissy, and distant. Well, the remaster is still muddy, although much more organic; it's all together, man! The hiss is still there, showing the countless overdubs. But it is so IN YOUR FACE that not only is Africa talking to you, you damn well better listen! Timber, all fall down indeed!

I'd never heard FRESH before, and on first listen it still lives up to its name. Hopefully, I'll have time to comment more on this album, but right now I can tell you that it is downright funk soul all kinds of good badness! Keep on dancin' indeed! The liner notes are probably the best of the bunch, AFAIC.

So yeah, get the box. You will not regret it, I promise you!

[Dave Garrett]

They had one copy at Amoeba in Hollywood of the box for $63. I passed at that price. When are the individual albums coming out?

Tuesday (4/24), but I'm with Big Al on this one - you need the box. You're going to wind up getting all of the individual discs if you just get a couple of them, and the box is cheaper than buying them separately. Check CD Universe and Amazon, you should be able to get it cheaper than Amoeba.