Jim Alfredson Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 So I was watching me some ELP (Emerson Lake and Palmer) on this evening, having a good laugh, and decided to dig out some of their stuff and listen to it while I did some graphic design work. I haven't listened to this stuff in earnest in probably 12 years. I used to be into them in high school. Anyway, I'm listening to this compilation of theirs called "Return of the Manticore" which has some unreleased stuff on it and I get to this tune called "Bo Diddley". And I'm listening and I say to myself, "Holy crap, they just totally ripped off Big John Patton's The Yodel." Seriously. Here's a snippet of The Yodel from the Grassella Oliphant disc with Patton and Grant Green. It's not the best version of the tune by them, but I can't find my copy of Got A Good Thing Going On right now, so it'll have to do: BJP - The Yodel And here's Emerson, Lake, and Palmer doing Bo Diddley: ELP - Bo Diddley That Grasella Oliphant record, which I believe came out before Patton's solo album, is from 1967. Considering ELP didn't even form until 1970-71, I think it's pretty obvious which tune came first. Now granted, the song was unreleased and maybe the producers of the box set just found this tune, un-named, on a reel of tape and took the name from the obvious Bo Diddley-beat drum thing going on, but still... the credits in the CD list it as being written by ELP. At least we know Emerson was listening to good organists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 I was a big ELP fan in the '70's, too. That is definitely close enough for a copyright infringement case if not done by permission! Busted! You're right, at least he listened to someone great...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 A long time ago Michael Fitzgerald sent me a file (link?) with all the jazz references in Emerson's work with ELP and the Nice. Needless to say, there were a lot. As far as ripping people off, ELP was busted for that early on. ("The Barbarian") Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 R U CRAZY OF COURSE K.E. KNOWS B.J.P.- HE ALSO SAID THAT HIS ORGAN SOUND, HE WANTED TO RECREATE THE ORGAN SOUND FROM BROTHER JACK mCDUFFS LIVE ALBUM, SPECIFICALLY ON "ROCK CANDY". I KNOW AS A FACT KEITH EMERSON LIKES BIG JOHN. HERE IS A LITTLE HANDY CHART IVE JUST MADE UP JUST 4 U SO YOULL KNOW FROM NOW OWN: PROG ROCK KEYBOARDISTS WHO TOLD ME THEY --DO-- LIKE B.J.P. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- KEITH EMERSON STEVIE WINWOOD (also asked him if u likes the baby face, and he was all r u kidding me of course i do) THE ORGANIST FOR DEEP PURPLE, NOT JON LORD, BUT THE GUY WHO REPLACED HIM, Don Airey (he specifically mentioned "the silver meter") MATTHEW FISHER- he said he hated geoff keezers opening set on fender rhodes but he does like big john, although his favorite organist was Booker T. AND THERE ARE OTHERS I CANT REMEMBER I DONT RECALL EVERY CONCERT IVE BEEN TO AT A MOMENTS NOTICE< BUT ILL WRITE EM WHEN THEY COME TO ME PROG ROCK KEYBOARDS WHO TOLD ME THEY **DONT** LISTEN TO B.J.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RICK WAKEMAN (he said the only jazz he ever listeted to was dixieland revival Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 chewy, What made you ask these guys specifically about Big John Patton? FWIW, from Emerson's web page: Some of his early influences were jazz artists Fats Waller, Oscar Peterson, Dave Brubeck, Jack McDuff and Big John Patton. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 whoa whoa wahoa whaowhoahwoahoawhaowhowahoawhohwohwohwaohowahwohawoh so i just listened 2 that!!!!! had the maticore box yrs ago- dont anymore. *****THAT IS ELP COVERING BIG JOHN*******!!!!!! (ive also heard robert walters do it)...but THAT IS ELP COVERING BIG JOHN!!!!!!!!! OH FUCKING ASS HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW COOL IS THAT OR WHAT- THE ONLY THING COOLER THAN ELP COVERING BIG JOHN WOULD BE PHIL COLLINS COVERING HANK MOBLEY!!! ***HELL*** YEAH!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 oh i allways give the big john shoutout!!!!! im all yea you may be keith emerson, but what the hells up w/ the big john patton! it really does kinda bring us on the same page and then after that its easier to ask the real hard questions like when the hell r u going to play brain salad surgery again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 oh i allways give the big john shoutout!!!!! im all yea you may be keith emerson, but what the hells up w/ the big john patton! it really does kinda bring us on the same page and then after that its easier to ask the real hard questions like when the hell r u going to play brain salad surgery again I imagine things got a little awkward with Rick Wakeman. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Good find, Jim! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 STEVIE WINWOOD (also asked him if u likes the baby face, and he was all r u kidding me of course i do) I can authenticate that. Saw him not too long ago groovin' at a Lonnie Smith/Lou Donaldson gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 PHIL COLLINS COVERING HANK MOBLEY!!! ***HELL*** YEAH!!!! God forbid ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 yes it was awkward when i was supprised he doesnt listen 2 jazz but after i thought about it wasnt THAT suprising, but he was a very nice chap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Urrrrrrgggghhhhhhhh. You prog rock heads all need brain surgery if ya filled your head up with that crap. That ELP thing sounded vile! Kinda like I'd imagine Jeff Beck and Jan Hammer would do it....or worse if it's possible, Beck Bogart and Appice. Sue em and then shoot em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Wow, ELP ripping someone off..... how surprising.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 I hate Keith Emerson...I like Greg Lake...but Emerson REALLY makes my teeth soft. I can definitely hear the jazz influence in Don Airey (an underrated player imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 u r nutz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I hate Keith Emerson...I like Greg Lake...but Emerson REALLY makes my teeth soft. I like Greg Lake in certain contexts, but Emerson was IMHO the best part of the band and easily the most interesting musically. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I hate Keith Emerson...I like Greg Lake...but Emerson REALLY makes my teeth soft. I like Greg Lake in certain contexts, but Emerson was IMHO the best part of the band and easily the most interesting musically. Guy Bit of ELP trivia. That 'Fanfare For The Common Man' was arranged I believe by John Mayer. Of Harriott/Mayer 'Indo-Jazz Fusions' fame ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I think Palmer was the weakest link. Some of those live videos up on YouTube are hilarious. His time is all over the place. Emerson is obviously a great musician technically speaking, but his playing very rarely has any emotional impact on me. There are exceptions, like some of his piano playing on the first studio ELP record (Trilogy?) and every now and then he plays some pretty cool licks on the organ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 u r nutz No I'm not...I just have my own opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I think Palmer was the weakest link. Some of those live videos up on YouTube are hilarious. His time is all over the place. When I heard them here in NJ in '92 or '93, I remember hearing him rush up to the solo in Tank. It gave me the same feeling as wow and flutter on a bad turntable, but without the pitch problems. Emerson is obviously a great musician technically speaking, but his playing very rarely has any emotional impact on me. There are exceptions, like some of his piano playing on the first studio ELP record (Trilogy?) and every now and then he plays some pretty cool licks on the organ. The first album came out in 71, Trilogy was their third studio album in '72 (w/Tarkus in between). I like those early ELP albums, but while I love them for nostalgia, most of the composing doesn't hold up. I heard a Emerson solo show a few years ago, too much focus on the Nice and way too many "let's see how many quotes I can fit in to a solo!" for me. He has a good ear for nice tones, but ya gotta back it up with something real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Sounds to me like Big John should get some publishing and royalties from ELP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Why do these rockers consent to be grilled by chewy, I'm wondering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Sounds to me like Big John should get some publishing and royalties from ELP... At the least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 you are all out of your gourds: what, are you watching, like the Cal Jam Speedway youtube footage that was a concert in 1974 for 400,000 people-- where a million stage monitors wouldn't of helped one bit? i saw c.p. solo band in may and it was tight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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