World Saxophone Quartet

[Guy Berger]

These guys haven't been discussed much on this board, so I've been somewhat wary of checking them out. Are they good? Which records do you recommend? I like (but don't love) David Murray's playing. I'm only slightly familiar with Bluiett and have never heard Lake or Hemphill.

edit: How is Hemphill's solo stuff?

Guy

Edited November 23, 2006 by Guy

[king ubu]

Not familiar with the WSQ, but a tiny bit with Hemphill, and this one's a classic:

Same goes for "Dogon A.D." (Tim Berne had it for download on his site some time ago), and "Flat Out Jump Suite" (Black Saint) is another very good one.

Lake I'm not sure - found him rather disappointing with Trio 3 (Workman was great, though!).

[Nate Dorward]

Blues & Ballads on Elektra Nonesuch is quite nice.

[B. Clugston]

Hemphill’s Dogon A.D. is a classic. Not a big fan of Julius Hemphill Big Band on Elektra.

I’m not too familiar with the WSQ recordings, but Bluett’s Clarinet Family is a huge favourite.

Prior to the World Saxophone Quartet, Hemphill, Lake and Bluiett joined Anthony Braxton for a sax quartet composition on the latter’s New York, Fall 1974 LP.

[JSngry]

The first 3-4 WSQ sides on Black Saint are classics of the time imo. After that, things got less consistent, but never uninteresting.

[robviti]

two of my favorites:

[mandrill]

two of my favorites:

Second that!

Also I found this one surprisingly good.

Edited November 24, 2006 by Mandrill

[ep1str0phy]

The one Nate mentions is as beautiful a record as anything the WSQ ever recorded (let alone the whole body of sax-harmony groups), but Jim's right that everything gets sort of inconsistent. Bright spots all over the place, but some phone-ins, too.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I've just got 'Point of No Return' (Moers, 1977) and it's nothing short of astonishing.

[JohnS]

Most of what's been said before. Most of their recent recordings have featured an augmented quartet, you might find these interesting. The last two 'Experience' and 'Political Blues' both add bass and drums

(plus other guests) on some tracks and I think this enhances the listening experience.

[king ubu]

Live broadcast of Experience have been very sloppy, in my opinion... that's alas the only WSQ I've heard so far, but I'll take some leads from here for the day I feel like getting more.

[ep1str0phy]

I put in a review of Political Blues on AAJ a while back--generally positive. The horns are still terrific, and the political content is incendiary, but the thrill of the "new" wore off a while ago. It isn't an innovative record, but it's sincere, but I don't feel as if the WSQ is out to really reinvent the wheel every time, anyhow (PB often feels like a straight soul-jazz/free/funk amalgam--you've heard it before--although the band of Downtowners and Prime Time alumni is awesome). They're still crafting fine music.

Edited November 24, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[shrugs]

Live at BAM

[robviti]

Live at BAM

just ordered it, thanks to this thread.

Edited November 25, 2006 by jazzshrink

[bertrand]

I've seen Oliver Lake a few times playing mostly Dolphy material - it was fabulous.

I've heard very little WSQ. I've seen Murray and Bluiett a few times; I thought Lake was the best.

Bertrand.

[jlhoots]

Lake I'm not sure - found him rather disappointing with Trio 3 (Workman was great, though!).

I like Lake in Trio 3, especially the (relatively) new one on Intakt.

[paul secor]

I liked their early work. As time went on, I found that I has less interest in their recordings. However, that was evidently more about me than about them. I recently revisited Dances and Ballads and Metamorphosis - both "middle period" WSQ - and enjoyed them thoroughly, especially the former.

[JSngry]

If for no other reason, the WSQ was a valuable as a showcase for Julius Hemphill.

[ep1str0phy]

Especially as an arranger/orchestrator/composer; however fine Julius's "solo" all-sax albums were, it was a total joy to hear the WSQ cut those charts.

[Simon Weil]

I think Jim gets it right - that is the early records are the one that counts and also that the band was important as a showcase for Julius Hemphill. One of the sleevenotes even has an insightful sleevenote about some A-G music by Stanley Crouch!

But then he was a kind of cheerleader for David Murray. Me I'm not a Murray fan. Like Hemphill a lot. I think the mix of the four musicians is what made the band...and then they kind of ran out steam.

Crouch goes on about the kind of existential nature of the music - kind of these four guys making music above the abyss - which is my take, near enough. Because there's no rhythm section, this is music that all the time feels like it's fighting falling into nothingness - which fits with the Crouch view of the world, even if, I guess, the non-blues elements don't.

Hemphill is steeped in the blues - and that's what makes early WSQ, roots it, for me.

Simon Weil

Edited November 25, 2006 by Simon Weil

[JSngry]

For people who have come to jazz in the last 10-15 years or so, Julius Hemphill may well be a name that's been heard of more than heard. If that's the case for anybody here, I'd like to humbly suggest that you're missing out on one of the more satisfying players & writers of the last quarter of the 20th Century.

Somebody mentioned the Moers album. Although it frequently is indeed a gasp-inducing affair, it's not really representative of the WSQ in general. The story is that the band got together for that gig w/little if any rehearsal, just showed up & blew, & Moers recorded/released it. As a result, there's not much in the way of the finely-crafted composing/arranging that for me was always what set the WSQ apart from a lot of the "loft jazz" of the time.

And if anybody's looking for a "gateway" into the band (especially since Black Saint doesn't yet seem to have become "easily" avaialbe again), the Ellington side on Elektra might do the trick. Certainly not their "best" album, but the songs are familiar, and if you've heard Ellington/Strayhorn's more harmonically "out" writing for sax section, then the album shouldn't shock you nearly as much as it did Phil Woods....

[ep1str0phy]

Agreed that the Ellington side acts as a good "gateway", but you gotta go with the original material to get the feel of just what that band could lay down. I think the whole run on Elektra/Nonesuch is a pretty good entrance point in and of itself.

What was the deal with Woods?

[AllenLowe]

I will add ad few things vis a ve Hemphill - years ago I was talking to Vinnie Golia and he remarked that Julius was "the Duke Ellington of the avant garde." I concur - the whole sax quartet concept for the WSQ was initially conceived and executed by Julius - and, when this was acknowledged in a Downbeat article about the group, the other three got together and kicked Julius out. This was a trio of egomaniacs and typical of their actions. Julius was not a guy who promoted himself; he just wrote brilliantly and played brilliantly. I know this story because I was in NYC for a rehearsal with him on the day he received the letter from the group's lawyer. I took him downtown, he went into some office, and that was it. He was quite wounded, but told me he would go them one better, and hence his series of Saxophone Sextet albums, which are even more amazing. If you have not heard them, find them -

I will also add that the the Electra CD of his big band writing is incredible, the best big-group writing of the last 30 years, IMHO -

Edited November 25, 2006 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

What was the deal with Woods?

Oh, he was doing some Blindfold Test thing and they played him a cut off that album and he went batshit, talking about how "they shit on Ellington! They shit on Duke!" or some looney-tooney crap like that. Same as his infamous comments about Braxton in a similar context many years earlier, only his sense of "outrage" was even more f-ed up because he'd had more than enough time to figure stuff out and obviously hadn't.

Edited November 25, 2006 by JSngry

[7/4]

He was quite wounded, but told me he would go them one better, and hence his series of Saxophone Sextet albums, which are even more amazing. If you have not heard them, find them -

Thanks, label? Something else I should check out.

I took the train into town with Bruce from DMG a few weeks ago and he was telling how wonderful the Hemphill tribute at Merkin was a few weeks ago. Another Jazz artist I should know more about.