Bix Beiderbecke recommendations?

[mikelz777]

Bix Beiderbecke has caught my ear recently and I have nothing of his in my collection so the slate is totally clean. What readily available CDs would you recommend? Is the Bix/Tram/Tea Mosaic the definitive way to go? If the Mosaic is not in the financial picture, what CDs, outside of greatest hits packages, would you recommend to get a nice and representative portion of Bix's output?

I was listening to samples of JSP's "Bix and Tram" and there is supposedly vocals on nearly half the tracks, some of which were pretty awful. Are there a lot of vocals on Bix's recordings? I see Proper has a set out too but they are a lot less attractive to me since they started using cardboard sleeves instead of plastic cases. It's tough to choose with artists like this when basically everything out there is compilations rather than regular releases so there's a lot of opportunity for gaps or duplications.

[Late]

Financial matters aside, here's how I'd prioritize acquiring Bix:

1. The Mosaic

2. The JSP (there are enough instrumental-only takes to make the set more than worthwhile)

3. Retrieval 79040: Bix Beiderbecke with Jean Goldkette's Orchestra, 1924-1927 (excellent single disc)

4. The two Columbia discs (remastering involves some no-noising, but the sound is still OK)

If you just want one disc, I'd say go for the first volume of the Columbia. I have the JSP and really like it — J.R.T. Davies did the remastering on that one.

You're in for a huge treat either way!

[B. Goren.]

One more for the JSP set.

[J.A.W.]

There are a lot of vocals on the Mosaic too, on more than half of the tracks if I remember correctly. By the way, John R.T. Davies was also involved in the preparation of that set; I believe he did some of the transfers.

As far as I know noise reduction was used on most of the discs, in various degrees.

I'd go with the Mosaic set, with the JSP in second place.

Edited November 22, 2006 by J.A.W.

[jazzbo]

Good advice from Laton.

I ended up deciding I had to have all the Bix material and went the Origin Jazz route, all the material in four volumes. Excellent sound on those as well. Best sound I've heard, actually.

www.originjazz.com

There are a few Bix threads here. . . I'll see if I can find a good one and bring it up.

Edited November 22, 2006 by jazzbo

[ghost of miles]

From a budgetary viewpoint, probably the JSP. Great as the Mosaic is, Bix is on only half of it.

If you really want to get into BB, I'd recommend the Bix Restored series--especially the first three volumes. Lots of alternates here & such (don't know if you like that or dislike it); probably the most thorough aural picture we'll ever get of Bix.

Edit: Jazzbo & I are talking about the same series.

Edited November 22, 2006 by ghost of miles

[J.A.W.]

  ghost of miles said:

(...) If you really want to get into BB, I'd recommend the Bix Restored series--especially the first three volumes. Lots of alternates here & such (don't know if you like that or dislike it); probably the most thorough aural picture we'll ever get of Bix.

That series was also mastered by John R.T. Davies.

[jazzbo]

Here's a previous discussion on Bix:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...ic=3955&hl=

[medjuck]

I presume that the JSP set is not just a rip-off of the Mosaic. It should be a good price but if not and you just want to test the waters I wouldn't scoff at a greatest hits package. I used to have a good one from Telarc I think before I got the Mosaic set. The first volume of the Columbia gives you most of "the gretest hits" but not Davenport Blues or River Boat Shuffle. (They aren't on the Mosaic either.) Personally I wouldn't start with the Goldkette or Whiteman recordings. You gotta have Singing the Blues and In a Mist.

[Harold_Z]

All of the above.

Stay away from just about everything else. Most of the other issues I've heard have been pretty dismal in terms of audio. There was an RCA single disc that had good audio

[J.A.W.]

  medjuck said:

I presume that the JSP set is not just a rip-off of the Mosaic. (...)

Other than some of their later projects, the JSP Bix set is not a rip-off. It has been available before (it's been out of print for a while), and it was mastered for JSP by John R.T. Davies.

Edited November 22, 2006 by J.A.W.

[Harold_Z]

I just took a look at what's currently out there. Best bang for the buck is the JSP until you decide to go complete.

[Quincy]

I started with a used copy of the JSP. When Mosaic had the Bix on sale last August I finally picked that up. Both sound excellent given the time of the recordings. The more you listen to them, the better you'll be at either appreciating some of the vocals or filtering them out.

The tipping point for me for getting the Mosaic was to get more Teagarden. Sure, there are other ways to accomplish that, but to have it wrapped up in black & white made it an easy decision.

I'd lean towards working your way up to the Mosaic (or Bix Restored), just because I think it might be more enjoyable to start with an appetizer rather than a feast.

[BruceH]

  Late said:

Financial matters aside, here's how I'd prioritize acquiring Bix:

1. The Mosaic

2. The JSP (there are enough instrumental-only takes to make the set more than worthwhile)

3. Retrieval 79040: Bix Beiderbecke with Jean Goldkette's Orchestra, 1924-1927 (excellent single disc)

4. The two Columbia discs (remastering involves some no-noising, but the sound is still OK)

If you just want one disc, I'd say go for the first volume of the Columbia. I have the JSP and really like it — J.R.T. Davies did the remastering on that one.

You're in for a huge treat either way!

Yes!

[mikelz777]

Wow! I didn't expect this many responses so quickly. There must be a lot of love for Bix out there.

Thank you all for your great advice and your recommendations. So far it looks like the JSP box is the way to go for cost and content and then decide if I want to go further from there.

I've been on an older jazz kick lately. My last couple of purchases were by Buddy Hackett and Kid Ory. My Christmas wish list includes Pee Wee Russell, Jack Teagarden and Red Nichols.

Edited November 23, 2006 by mikelz777

[ghost of miles]

  mikelz777 said:

My Christmas wish list includes Pee Wee Russell, Jack Teagarden and Red Nichols.

In that case, even more reason to eventually go for the Mosaic Bix--you'll get some Texas T as well.

[Stereojack]

  mikelz777 said:

My last couple of purchases were by Buddy Hackett and Kid Ory.

Including the Chinese Waiter bit?

(It's Bobby, not Buddy - I'm sure that's what you meant).

[J.A.W.]

  ghost of miles said:

  mikelz777 said:

My Christmas wish list includes Pee Wee Russell, Jack Teagarden and Red Nichols.

In that case, even more reason to eventually go for the Mosaic Bix--you'll get some Texas T as well.

I agree, the Mosaic is the way to go if you want a lot of good Teagarden.

[mikelz777]

  Stereojack said:

  mikelz777 said:

My last couple of purchases were by Buddy Hackett and Kid Ory.

Including the Chinese Waiter bit?

(It's Bobby, not Buddy - I'm sure that's what you meant).

Was that bit in 3/4 or 4/4 time?

I stand corrected, I did mean Bobby. The first time I wrote the post which mentioned Pee Wee Russell among others I wrote "Pee Wee Reese" before I caught it. "Buddy" slipped by unnoticed. At least it's pretty close though.

Edited November 23, 2006 by mikelz777

[mikelz777]

  J.A.W. said:

  ghost of miles said:

  mikelz777 said:

My Christmas wish list includes Pee Wee Russell, Jack Teagarden and Red Nichols.

In that case, even more reason to eventually go for the Mosaic Bix--you'll get some Texas T as well.

I agree, the Mosaic is the way to go if you want a lot of good Teagarden.

The Bix/Tram/Tea Mosaic is tempting but when I'm laying down that kind of money, I'm not sure I'd make it my next buy. Right now, I'm really drawn to the Roy Eldridge box. The H.R.S. and the Condon Mob boxes are also tempting but I might already have some of the Condon sides. I'll have to look into that.

Edited November 23, 2006 by mikelz777

[Quincy]

As you revealed in post #16 that you're enjoying other"old" (around here that = pre-hard bop) jazz and looking for more that changes things. One, it makes the Mosaic a more reasonable/safer entry choice because of Tea and your enjoyment, but it also means maybe picking something cheaper/smaller as you may want to check out other sets of older artists. Ain't this fun.

Sharing my own relatively young experience in pre-WWII jazz I must say that after being very satisfied with the Bix/Tram/Tea Mosaic my next Mosaic set will probably be the Venuti/Lang. I once thought that maybe one of those inexpensive 3 or 4 disc sets would do instead, but having heard Lang with Tea on what I have and other samples, yes I really do want the big honking super-sized Mosaic of Venuti/Lang.

As others have said as you are interested in Teagarden, I'd say the meter's clock hand now favors Mosaic over JSP, unless you are budgeting for more early music by other artists too. Whatever you decide, keep Mosaic in mind for 2007's jazz budget! You can't go wrong either way you go. Or with Eldridge, H.R.S....Clementine also posted about an upcoming early jazz bass-centric set in another thread to consider too for exploration of early music. Budget long-term, pick something and enjoy!

Oh yes, Allen Lowe's "That Devilin' Tune" set 2 and/or 1 come highly recommended here too. Set 2 is more accessible as it's newer stuff ('27-34) as opposed to '1895-'27, though the latter is also full of enjoyable music along with historically interesting music (not necessarily exclusive things.) All depends on how early you want to go.

The '00s thru '30s still is fairly new to me too and I'm loving it. It's vital music that invigorates the brain and jumpstarts the heart. While a bit later than you're looking at with Bix, budget for Django too if you haven't (and start a JSP vs. Mosaic thread there too. As with Bix I have both. )

[mikelz777]

  Quincy said:

As you revealed in post #16 that you're enjoying other"old" (around here that = pre-hard bop) jazz and looking for more that changes things. One, it makes the Mosaic a more reasonable/safer entry choice because of Tea and your enjoyment, but it also means maybe picking something cheaper/smaller as you may want to check out other sets of older artists. Ain't this fun.

As others have said as you are interested in Teagarden, I'd say the meter's clock hand now favors Mosaic over JSP, unless you are budgeting for more early music by other artists too. Whatever you decide, keep Mosaic in mind for 2007's jazz budget! You can't go wrong either way you go. Or with Eldridge, H.R.S....Clementine also posted about an upcoming early jazz bass-centric set in another thread to consider too for exploration of early music. Budget long-term, pick something and enjoy!

I think that's going to be my approach for now, picking up the smaller/cheaper and get a variety of pre-hard bop artists to see if they would suffice or if I wanted to move onto the Mosaic from there. I have a good idea that I would probably enjoy it if I got it but the same money on a different Mosaic might get more play. Still, it'll probably be on my short list of Mosaics I'd like to pick up.

  Quincy said:

Oh yes, Allen Lowe's "That Devilin' Tune" set 2 and/or 1 come highly recommended here too. Set 2 is more accessible as it's newer stuff ('27-34) as opposed to '1895-'27, though the latter is also full of enjoyable music along with historically interesting music (not necessarily exclusive things.) All depends on how early you want to go.

The '00s thru '30s still is fairly new to me too and I'm loving it. It's vital music that invigorates the brain and jumpstarts the heart. While a bit later than you're looking at with Bix, budget for Django too if you haven't (and start a JSP vs. Mosaic thread there too. As with Bix I have both. )

I have "That Devilin' Tune vol. 2" and I love it. I've only made it through the set once so far, but I'm looking forward to giving it another listen. Vol. 1 didn't really work for me so I didn't get that one. It may be going back a bit too far for me. When you talk about vital music that invigorates the brain and jumpstarts the heart, Django is a good recommendation. His music really lifts the spirits and it makes me happy. I've had the first two JSP box sets (9 CDs worth) for some time now and I'd highly recommend both.

Edited November 23, 2006 by mikelz777

[gmonahan]

I wish all the Victor stuff was available in a tight set with *good* sound. I have the "Indispensable" 2-cd set from French RCA, but the sound is pretty lousy, and the Victor stuff is spread all over the Bix Restored cds. I do love the Mosaic, but it doesn't include the Victor material. I have a particular weakness for Bix's solo on Whiteman's "Dardanella." There's this huge orchestra, lumbering along, trying and failing to sound "jazzy," and suddenly this amazing clarion-clear cornet comes exploding out with a wonderful solo. Still a goose-bump moment after all these years!

[Harold_Z]

I have that Black and White on vinyl and it sounds pretty good. There was an also a single cd on RCA in the late 80s or early 90s that sounded pretty good. I guess now the only way to get the RCAs in thier entirety is the SUNBEAM set.

I agree - it would be nice if RCA released a complete well remastered set.

[Roger Hiles]

One more vote for the Origin Jazz/Sunbeam packages.

But I'd also like to pass on this link to the Bixography "WBIX" site, with hundreds of hours of streaming audio exploring Bix and his legacy:

http://bixography.com/wbix.html