Savoy Records

[Late]

The recordings made for Savoy take an interesting turn right after the 1962 Bill Dixon-Archie Shepp session. Take a look at the below sessions. Which have you heard? Which sessions did Dixon produce?

MG 12178 Archie Shepp-Bill Dixon Quartet

Bill Dixon (tp) Archie Shepp (ts) Don Moore (b -1,2,4) Reggie Workman (b -3) Paul Cohen (d -1,2,4) Howard McRae (d -3)

NYC, October, 1962

1. 63-114 Trio

2. 63-115 Quartet

3. 63-116 Peace

4. 63-117 Somewhere

MG 12180 Jack Brokensha - And Then I Said

Jack Brokensha (vib) Howard Lucas (p) Don Jordan (b) Art Mardigan (d)

March 17, 1963

SJB63-093 March of the Siamese Children

SJB63-094 Little Niles

SJB63-096 And Then I Said

SJB63-097 Johnny Guitar

SJB63-099 When the Sun Comes Out

SJB63-103 Engulfed Cathedral

MG 12182 Paul Bley - Footloose!

Paul Bley (p) Steve Swallow (b) Pete LaRoca (d)

NYC, August 17, 1962

SPB6464 Floater

SPB6465 When Will the Blues Leave

SPB6467 Around Again

same personnel

September 12, 1963

SPB63-259 Syndrome

SPB63-261 King Korn

SPB63-264 Cousins

SPB63-265 Vashkar

SPB63-266 Turns

MG 12183 Bill Barron - The Hot Line

Bill Barron, Booker Ervin (ts) Kenny Barron (p) Larry Ridley (b) Andrew Cyrille (d)

NYC, March 31, 1962

SBB6335 Bill's Boogie

SBB6336 Groovin'

SBB6337 Now's the Time

SBB6338 A Cool One

SBB6339 Jelly Roll

SBB6340 Playhouse March

SBB6342 Work Song

MG 12184 Archie Shepp and the New York Contemporary Five/Bill Dixon 7-Tette

Bill Dixon (tp) Ken McIntyre (as, ob) George Barrow (ts) Howard Johnson (bars, tuba) Hal Dodson, Dave Izenzon (b) Howard McRae (d)

NYC, February 4, 1964

64-059 Winter Song 1964

64-060 The 12th December

Ted Curson (tp -1,2) Don Cherry (tp -3) John Tchicai (as) Archie Shepp (ts) Ronnie Boykins (b) Sunny Murray (d)

NYC, February 5, 1964

1. 64-061 Where Poppies Bloom

2. 64-062 Like a Blessed Baby Lamb

3. 64-063 Consequences

MG 12185 Joseph Scianni - New Concepts

Joseph Scianni (p) David Izenzon (b)

March 18, 1965

Daniel's Den

Junk Age

A Monday Idea

Little Pink Missile

Man Running

Soul Talk

Memphis Ramble

See Saw

MG 12187 Vinson Hill Trio

Vinson Hill (p) Ronnie Markowitz (b) John Lee (d)

April 11, 1966

Night and Day

Pokes Theme

Indian Spiritual

Bess

Lavender's Theme

Young and Foolish

After

Rubato Jazz

MG 12188 Valdo Williams - New Advanced Jazz

Valdo Williams (p) Reggie Johnson (b) Stu Martin (d)

December 20, 1966

Desert Fox

Bad Manners

Move Faster

The Conqueror

MG 12189 Robert F. Pozar - Good Golly, Miss Nancy

Mike Zwerin (tb, btp) Kathy Morris (cello) Jimmy Garrison (b) Robert Pozar (d)

1966

The Mechanical Answering Service of Chris and Martha White

Robin Hood

Renfield

Keying in Your Bank

Maia

Good Golly, Miss Nancy

MG 12190 Marc Levin - The Dragon Suite

Jonas Gwanga (tb) Marc Levin (fl, brass) Calo Scott (cello) Cecil McBee (b) Frank Clayton (d)

NYC, 1967

Morning Colors

The Dragon and the Rainbow

Form with the Modern Men

The Rainbow

Twilight Dance

Meditation

The Sea, The Fire, The Earth

MG 12191 Ed Curran - Elysa

Marc Levin (cor, flh, mel) Ed Curran (cl, as) Kiyoshi Tokunaga (b) Robert Pozar (d)

NYC, 1967

Cire

Why

Mid Tempo

Looking Back

Duos

Lady A

Nicole

Drac

MG 12192 Paul Jeffrey's Electrifying Sounds

Jimmy Owens (tp) Paul Jeffrey (el-sax) George Cables (p) Larry Ridley (b) Billy Hart (d)

NYC, August 8, 1968

Made Minor Blue

I Guess I'll Hang My Tears Out to Dry

The Dreamer

Ecclesiology

Green Ivan

A.V.G

MG 12193 The Marzette Watts Ensemble

George Turner (cor) Marty Cook (tb) Marzette Watts (ts) Frank Kipers (vln) Bobby Few (p) Joony Booth, Cevera Jeffers, Steve Tintweiss (b) Tom Berge, J.C. Moses (d) Amy Schaefer, Patty Waters (vo)

NYC, 1968

October Song

F.L.O.A.R.S.S.

Medley

Lonely Woman

Joudpoo

Marzette Watts (ts) Bill Dixon (p) unknown (b) unknown (d)

same location, date

Play It Straight

MG 12194 Charles Moffett - The Gift

Charles Moffett (tp, vib, d) Paul Jeffrey (ts, acl) Wilbur Ware (b) Codaryl Moffett, Dennis O'Tootle (d)

NYC, 1969

Avant Garde Got Soul Too

Adverb

The Gift

Blues Strikes Again

Yelricks

MG 12195 The Doug Carn Trio

Doug Carn (org) Gary Starling (b) Albert Nicholson (d)

NYC, 1969?

Walk Right In

Butter from the Duck

My One and Only Love

Motherless Child

Free Blues

Yna Yna Delight

Edited May 27, 2008 by Late

[HolyStitt]

I have heard the Shepp/Dixon that was reissued and these two:

MG 12190 Marc Levin - The Dragon Suite

MG 12194 Charles Moffett - The Gift

Though it has been quite a while since I have heard the Levin. I will dig out a copy my buddy made for me on the cassette in the mid 90s and give it another spin.

[clifford_thornton]

Lots of wonderful records there.

The Dixon productions are limited to the Pozar, the Levin, the Curran and the Watts, aside from his own dates. The story is that Savoy wanted him to do more records, but due to some embouchre problems and the dissolution of his group with Shepp, he decided to use "his" dates to produce some of his students. Good move.

Excellent records. I have all of the Dixon-related but the Watts, though I have heard that one and can speak for its strength and beauty.

The Valdo is sick, the Moffett is peerless, the Scianni is decent (though pressed poorly), and the Barron (as with all his dates) has some great jams. Haven't heard the Brokensha, Vince Hill or the Doug Carn, though the latter has (maybe mistakenly) intrigued me. The Jeffrey is more of a greasy date than his work on the Moffett, as I understand it.

The Bley is nice, though I wish Savoy had issued the quartet with Gilmore - though part of it was eventually on Turning Point.

Edited November 16, 2006 by clifford_thornton

[kh1958]

The Hot Line is a long time favorite, but I've heard none of the others.

[Late]

Of the fifteen sessions, I've heard/have:

• Archie Shepp/Bill Dixon

• Paul Bley

• Bill Barron

• Contemporary Five/7-tette

• Valdo Williams

• Robert Pozar

• Paul Jeffrey

• Charles Moffett

.. and would like to hear:

• Jack Brokensha

• Joseph Scianni

• Vincent Hill

• Marc Levin

• Ed Curran

• Marzette Watts

• Doug Carn

Some mini-reviews of those I've heard:

1. Shepp-Dixon — A board member here generously hooked me up with this one some time ago. (I promised a review, but never got around to it ... until now?) A very nice record, with Shepp really challenging himself melodically (something I don't think he always did later), and Dixon sounding a lot like Don Cherry. Highly recommended.

2. Paul Bley — One of my favorite Bley records. I think the Penguin Guide nails it when they say that, while Bill Evans was receiving all/most of the recognition during this period (circa 1962), Bley was actually recording much more interesting/challenging music.

3. Bill Barron — My least favorite Barron on Savoy. It's good for what it is, which is essentially a blowing date, but to my ears the rhythms often get bogged down with repetitiveness. Barron's earlier two Savoy sessions — which focus on his compositions, often in suite-like progression — are far superior. Others will of course disagree.

4. Contemporary Five / 7-tette Great record. If it's still available, and I think it is, grab it. Both sessions are winners, with highlights being the playing of Ken McIntyre and Howard Johnson on the Dixon side.

5. Valdo Williams — Couldn't get with this one. Williams is a good pianist, and it sounds like he'd come under the spell of Cecil Taylor to some extent on this recording, but he likes some of his licks way too much. As a result, they get repeated ... and repeated. Not a "bad" session, it just doesn't hold my interest.

6. Robert Pozar — Lots of interest on this one. Mike Zwerin on trombone and bass trumpet — yeah. As far as I know, Zwerin's coming from a bebop/cool vein (he played in Miles Davis's nonet), but he's thrown into an altogether different context here, and he prevails. Kathy Morris and Jimmy Garrison, on cello and bass, are strongly featured, sometimes in duet, as well. Pozar is content to stay in the background, while still adding some unexpected bombs. This recording could be one of the Atlantic sessions lost in the fire.

7. Paul Jeffrey — I like this one a lot, too. I wouldn't call it greasy, but rather modal with some pre-fusion touches. Electric instruments are used on this set — namely the Varitone — but it doesn't distract from the proceedings. Jimmy Owens is in great form.

8. Charles Moffett — Discussed in an AOTW. Not a "great" session, per se, but one I'm very fond of. It's more than worth owning; it's worth getting out and spinning with frequency. Even Moffett's singing, on one track, is charming

[JSngry]

Not sure about the date, but if I'm correct, you're leaving out a later Barron date, Motivation. That shit is sick.

Will disagree about Hot Line. The repetition is what makes it for me, for it gives Andrew Cyrille the power, and the power is neither wasted nor abused.

[ep1str0phy]

With little to add (agree with the enthusiasm for the Bley and Moffett in particular, as I've really lived with those records...), I'll just say that the Dixon/NYC5 session is totally of its own piece. None of it is exactly unheralded, but all the music on that record is fascinating historically and contextually. It's some of Dixon's "prettiest" work, for one, and it's astonishing how quickly he'd move into abstraction after the later Savoy record got waxed. Also, the rhythm section makes a HUGE difference for the NYC5; those sides--tho they burn slow--cook well, and without the bombast of the Moore/Moses underpinning.

Edited November 16, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[clifford_thornton]

Not sure about the date, but if I'm correct, you're leaving out a later Barron date, Motivation. That shit is sick.

Will disagree about Hot Line. The repetition is what makes it for me, for it gives Andrew Cyrille the power, and the power is neither wasted nor abused.

Good point. I've never even seen Motivation offered (think it's from '72?) - it hurts my feelings, for sure!

The Valdo is "difficult," but I'm not sure it's "unsuccessful." The fact that he was playing that way, or in a comparable vein, in the '40s and '50s lends credence to the idea that he was/is an original. Sort of like a Hasaan/early Cecil hybrid, if you ask me.

Zwerin's also in fine form on Shepp's Magic of JuJu, from around the same time. The Pozar is a very good record; understated, but a sleeper hit with me. His drumming is wonderful overall, though the shit he throws down on the Dixon RCA is fucking retarded...

The Levin is one of the best underground NY LPs of the period. Period.

C

[jazzbo]

The ones I don't have are:

• Robert Pozar

• Joseph Scianni

• Vincent Hill

• Ed Curran

• Marzette Watts

Would like to have the others, especially the Watts, cuz I like the ESP so much.

Edited November 16, 2006 by jazzbo

[ep1str0phy]

The Levin is one of the best underground NY LPs of the period. Period.

C

Um, you would have to say that. Anything with McBee has got to be at least worth hearing once.

Uh-oh ... I feel some caps-lock coming on. Must -- hold -- back -- no -- don't: MUST NOW HEAR THE LEVIN!

And it's got Calo Scott!

I enjoy Zwerin's contribution to Magic of Ju-Ju, although the personal relationship between the two artists (Shepp and Zwerin) has always been a little confusing to me. Of course, there was a point at which Shepp just let everyone into the door with the Impulses! (which was perhaps one of his great missionary works in the way of playing the major label system), but that Zwerin took the coveted trumpet chair--especially on an album that is, for the most part, a saxophone concerto (and hence requires some serious weight from the brassmen, when they do come in)--is remarkable to me... he's a rare figure, to be sure.

[wigwise]

I dig the 1962 Savoy session led by Perry Robinson titled "Funk Dumpling". Henry Grimes, Kenny Barron and Paul Motian round out the group.

[B. Clugston]

The Levin is one of the best underground NY LPs of the period. Period.

C

Um, you would have to say that. Anything with McBee has got to be at least worth hearing once.

Uh-oh ... I feel some caps-lock coming on. Must -- hold -- back -- no -- don't: MUST NOW HEAR THE LEVIN!

And it's got Calo Scott!

I enjoy Zwerin's contribution to Magic of Ju-Ju, although the personal relationship between the two artists (Shepp and Zwerin) has always been a little confusing to me. Of course, there was a point at which Shepp just let everyone into the door with the Impulses! (which was perhaps one of his great missionary works in the way of playing the major label system), but that Zwerin took the coveted trumpet chair--especially on an album that is, for the most part, a saxophone concerto (and hence requires some serious weight from the brassmen, when they do come in)--is remarkable to me... he's a rare figure, to be sure.

Zwerin is an interesting guy and is an excellent writer on jazz. www.mikezwerin.com

One of the best places to sample him is the Kurt Weill album done by him and the Jazz Sextet of Orchestra USA, one side of which featured Eric Dolphy.

[Guest the mommy]

the only one of these dates i DONT like that i have heard (about half) is the paul jeffrey. which is too bad. but it isn't progressive enough for my ears.

i did the moffett as an AOW a bit back.

i am listening to the pozar now and expected more electronics. but i like it a lot either way.

i can see not liking the valdo, but i enjoy his relentless riffing.

[jazzbo]

I dig the 1962 Savoy session led by Perry Robinson titled "Funk Dumpling". Henry Grimes, Kenny Barron and Paul Motian round out the group.

Definitely a good one!

[Chas]

Question : Does the music from the aborted Don Cherry Savoy session of January 9 , 1964 ( w/ Sanders , Scianni , Izenzon and Moses ) " circulate among collectors " ?

And Laton , your last sentence in this paragraph has me nonplussed :

6. Robert Pozar — Lots of interest on this one. Mike Zwerin on trombone and bass trumpet — yeah. As far as I know, Zwerin's coming from a bebop/cool vein (he played in Miles Davis's nonet), but he's thrown into an altogether different context here, and he prevails. Kathy Morris and Jimmy Garrison, on cello and bass, are strongly featured, sometimes in duet, as well. Pozar is content to stay in the background, while still adding some unexpected bombs. This recording could be one of the Atlantic sessions lost in the fire.

[wigwise]

Have any of these recordings been released on CD (apart from Funk Dumpling)?

[Late]

Chas — the Pozar session strikes me as bearing a resemblance to some of Ornette's work from around 1961 (the Pozar was recorded in 1966). It has that open, free-but-not-too-free sound to it. It just made me think that it could have been recorded four or five years earlier for Atlantic — hypothetically, of course — and then lost in the infamous Atlantic warehouse fire that took with it unissued Ornette recordings from the period. Just my imagination roaming!

Wig — Yes, but mostly in Japan. A couple years back (2001, 2002?), Denon Japan reissued a large amount of Savoy sessions in mini-LP. They broke them up into genres (bebop, "modern," etc.), and some of the rarer recordings being discussed here actually saw the light of day on compact disc. From memory, (some) of those were:

• Paul Bley: Footloose!

• Bill Barron: The Tenor Stylings of Bill Barron

• Bill Barron: Modern Windows

• Bill Barron: Hot Line!

• Vincent Hill Trio

• Valdo Williams: New Advanced Jazz

• Paul Jeffrey: The Electrifying Sounds of

• Charles Moffett: The Gift

There were a ton more (esp. from the "bebop" genre), but that's what I remember right now (after one cup of coffee). They're worth buying on the spot. The sound is usually superb.

[JSngry]

The Doug Carn made Japanese CD. It's a good, slightly Larry Young-ish set, but I much prefer his Black Jazz albums.

[jazzbo]

That Don Cherry unreleased Savoy apparently was never even intended to be a Savoy.

And yes, it was released to the download throng in the last year, sort of coupled with some Contemporary 5 stuff.

[clifford_thornton]

Chas — the Pozar session strikes me as bearing a resemblance to some of Ornette's work from around 1961 (the Pozar was recorded in 1966). It has that open, free-but-not-too-free sound to it. It just made me think that it could have been recorded four or five years earlier for Atlantic — hypothetically, of course — and then lost in the infamous Atlantic warehouse fire that took with it unissued Ornette recordings from the period. Just my imagination roaming!

I sort of see what you mean, but the Ornette comparison doesn't really fit with my impression of the LP, though it has been a while since I spun it. "The Mechanical Answering Service of Chris and Marta White" is a pretty cool little tune, especially considering the fact that it's based on the vocal cadences in an answering service message! The Curran is really nice, having a lot in common with a post-Ornette bag as well as reminding me a little of Sonny Simmons (tone-wise, not group-wise). Interestingly, the bassist is Japanese, though I haven't seen him on anything else: Kyoshi Tokunaga. Wonder what his story was?

If you crack the Dixonia book, you'll see a lot of references to some of these Savoy characters, and lots of "could-have-been" Dixon-related sessions that went unreleased. Definitely a broader picture of the NYC '60s underground than you'd get from listening only to ESPs and Impulse! sides.

[ep1str0phy]

Clifford--how would you "rate" the Dixonia book (not in any quantifiable sense, but rather--what do you think of it?). I'd get it on the merits of my enthusiasm for Dixon alone, but it's a hefty price tag and I just shelled out for Holy Ghost a few weeks back...

[Guest the mommy]

i heard an unreleased dewey redman session also. was this going to be released on savoy or blue note?

i have seen the valdo williams here in new york on both a domestic and japanese import CD.

the moffett i have seen on domestic CD and the jeffrey i have seen on japanese import CD.

[ep1str0phy]

I think the copies that are circulating (of the Redman date) list it as a rejected BN session, but the discography authorities have said (I'm pretty sure) that that's apocryphal. Good stuff, regardless.

[erhodes]

The Bley is nice, though I wish Savoy had issued the quartet with Gilmore - though part of it was eventually on Turning Point.

Savoy did reissue this date with alternate takes as "Turns", Savoy SJL 1192. Note, however, that it was not a Savoy date. The original issue is on Improvising Artists.

Also, the Watts material...at least some of it...and the alternates from the "Turns" session were issued on Savoy SJL 2235, "New Music: Second Wave".

[clifford_thornton]

I'd always been under the impression that it was slated for Savoy but unfinished. My bad if this is not the case.

Clifford--how would you "rate" the Dixonia book (not in any quantifiable sense, but rather--what do you think of it?). I'd get it on the merits of my enthusiasm for Dixon alone, but it's a hefty price tag and I just shelled out for Holy Ghost a few weeks back...

It's an amazing document; I find myself referring to it fairly often, as Dixon isn't the only point of reference. I'd say it's worth it, but it might be source-able from Amazon or someone for less than the $75 list.