Bud Powell: 1957-1958

[mjzee]

On the Pablo CD "Bebop," Hot House is 18:44.

Does anyone have full discographical info for the 3 Pablo discs?

[king ubu]

On the Pablo CD "Bebop," Hot House is 18:44.

Mythic Sound (LP/CD MS 6008-1) has a 16:19 version that ends during Bud's second solo. The Fontana (LP 683.903ZL) and Black Lion (CD BLCD-760121) editions had a 5:25 excerpt that starts during that solo and goes on to the end of the tune.

The same Pablo disc (PACD-2310-978-2) that has the full "Hot House" also has the only complete version of "Salt Peanuts" from the same date (without Griffin). The date is between Aug. 8 and Aug. 14. There are other Edenville sessions where the dates are known somewhat more exactly... the whole discography is a mess, I'd love to get some complete tapes, even if some of the music might be desultory... but as things are, the three Pablo discs seem to offer some of the best material from the Mythic Sound set (which was far from complete, too... and contained incomplete dates and in some cases it seems incomplete/shortened tracks, too)

[Gheorghe]

Well, I didn´t know, that Pablo released material from those very private sessions. Maybe, I´m not up to date to record labels, but during „my time“, Pablo was Norman Granz´ stuff, mostly live jams from Montreux from the 70´s, Dizzy Gillespie Jam, Oscar Peterson Jam etc.

About the discographies: Well maybe they are a mess, anyway I think those who did make the records (Mythic Sound) didn´t know exactly when it was made. On my Mythic version of „Hot House“, there is an introduction where Bud greets Johnny, but I believe that took place much earlier, in february 1964 at Francis´home, where Bud stayed when he was released on weekends from the sanatorium where he was recovering from TB.

On the other hand, on one of my CDs from the private collection there is an extended version of „All the Things you are“, but it´s another piano player, not Bud. That piano player sounds like someone who likes jazz but doesn´t really know how to swing, it got that typical european „edge“ in it.

Anyway I think, those Edenville recordings are historical important documents. Imagine, that was a time when you could spend a holiday on the beach and each evening listen to Bud Powell…..incredible. How much would I have liked to be there.

On one of the tapes, Bud plays „If I loved you“. This tune was not in his repertory until then. He announces it as „dedicated to Rini, …and my name is Bud“. „Rini“ was a young girl who was on the beach and was one of the few persons Bud would talk with.

It is interesting that he kept „If I loved you“ in his repertory, he played it frequently at Birdland and it´s also on the studio recording „The Return of Bud Powell“.

[king ubu]

I think except for the all star date opening the third Pablo disc ("Bebop" is its title) all the music from the Pablo discs was picked from the same sources as the Mythic Sound set. And I dimly remember some previous discussion about this topic here. Anyway, it's clear from the discographies that the Pablo discs are sort of cherry-picking the same material, but they do focus mostly on Parisian material.

jazzbo confirms my findings here, there's some more discussion of that period of Bud here.

[Gheorghe]

Now that you say it, I remember there was a collection of some late Bud, reissued by Bud´s daughter Celia. I didn´t purchase it, since I got all the material, it´s more like a sampler from stuff I got on the Mythic Sound.

I think, the title of the album was „Eternity“. I know, that „Eternity“ was a poem Bud wrote a few days before he died.

I only saw the french text in Pauras´ book. Since my french is not good enough, I didn´t really understand the text, it´s something about „when you left me, I lost the joy of life....“ Was it dedicated to Francis Paudras?

I´d like to read the english version of the poem, it´s told it´s on that sampler, but I wouldn´t buy the sampler if I got all the stuff, no „cherry picking“.

Great to have someone who likes Bud. I couldn´t meet persons who really dig his music. Most of them are piano players, who „do“ Bud as kind of an exercise, to cover that kind of period. I heard them play Bud´s tunes, but in that „laid back manner“ obviously from some scores they had to study. One time I didn´t have the patience, asked the kid to stop a bit, jumped at the piano bench and played it myself. Well, I do that only for myself, my wife says if I „play Bud“ it sounds like some unknown, unissued alternate takes, same style, same „snarling alone the lines“, same way of sitting and holding the fingers.....

[Pete C]

Well, I didn´t know, that Pablo released material from those very private sessions. Maybe, I´m not up to date to record labels, but during „my time“, Pablo was Norman Granz´ stuff, mostly live jams from Montreux from the 70´s, Dizzy Gillespie Jam, Oscar Peterson Jam etc.

I don't know about mostly live. It was the label for both live and studio sessions by Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, Joe Pass (Granz made Pass huge), Oscar Peterson, Dizzy, Duke and Basie, among others. Pretty much Granz signed his favorite old friends and colleagues going back to the Verve years and from his concert promotions. Plus first releases of archival recordings from tours he promoted when he didn't have a label (like the Coltrane stuff).

http://www.jazzdisco.org/pablo-records/discography-1973-1976/

[ghost of miles]

Revisited the RCA dates today and concur with both Late's assessment of "Lush Life" off Strictly Powell and Gheorge's verdict that Swingin' With Bud is the stronger of the two--he really does sound nearly back to form throughout it. Definitely worth checking out for Powell fans, and both albums are now available on a single CD.

[Eric]

On 12/25/2007 at 5:02 AM, John L said:

I think the bottom line is that most Bud Powell is very good. If he hadn't made those incredibly brilliant recordings around 1950, we would be able to listen to almost his whole discography with great enjoyment, and without having to think "decline?, decline!, decline?..."

 

Later Bud Powell is highly enjoyable if taken for what it is, and not as being in some life or death competition with what came earlier.

Yes, yes yes!  Recently been digging The Scene Changes (BN) and Bud Powell in Paris (Reprise).  Swinging, fun albums and a bunch of his compositions on the former.

[Gheorghe]

On 2/24/2024 at 11:12 PM, Eric said:

Yes, yes yes!  Recently been digging The Scene Changes (BN) and Bud Powell in Paris (Reprise).  Swinging, fun albums and a bunch of his compositions on the former.

The "Scene Changes" is at least for me a bit of a strange album, it has a very narrow range of moods, most tunes are medium tempo minor tunes, very similar to the style of Sonny Clark. And though Art Taylor could play very fine drums, he is pure and simple too subdued for my taste here. It sounds like a monotonic, quite metronomic brushing, there could have been done much more rhythmically, and that´s the quintessence of bop or hard bop. 

Bud Powell in Paris has a good drum sound, but a drummer who just doesn´t fit to Bud. It should be Kenny Clark who also lived in Paris, but Kansas Field is not really a drummer who fits to the bop tunes. I think the best tunes on this are "Little Benny" which actually is "Crazeology", and "Reets and I", and "Jordu", but on "Dear Old Stockholm" he busted the form, on "Parisian Thoroughfare" he is not really in demand. The two ballads are very fine ! 

[mhatta]

26 minutes ago, Gheorghe said:

The "Scene Changes" is at least for me a bit of a strange album, it has a very narrow range of moods, most tunes are medium tempo minor tunes, very similar to the style of Sonny Clark. And though Art Taylor could play very fine drums, he is pure and simple too subdued for my taste here. It sounds like a monotonic, quite metronomic brushing, there could have been done much more rhythmically, and that´s the quintessence of bop or hard bop. 

Bud Powell in Paris has a good drum sound, but a drummer who just doesn´t fit to Bud. It should be Kenny Clark who also lived in Paris, but Kansas Field is not really a drummer who fits to the bop tunes. I think the best tunes on this are "Little Benny" which actually is "Crazeology", and "Reets and I", and "Jordu", but on "Dear Old Stockholm" he busted the form, on "Parisian Thoroughfare" he is not really in demand. The two ballads are very fine ! 

"The Scene Changes" is Bud's most popular work in Japan, and there is no Japanese jazz fan who does not know a tune called Cleopatra's Dream. I don't like it that much (I heard Toshiko Akiyoshi didn't know it and had to learn for recording).

I think the best Bud from the mid-50s is "Swingin' With Bud" on RCA (the counterpart, "Strictly Powell", not so much). By the way, that session has one unreleased song (Lullaby to A Believer), a lullaby written for Bud's son.  The tape survives and it is very sweet song (it was on a compilation CD once in Japan.) Borderick in The Scene Changes is another bright, cute song with a similar feel.  I guess Bud was somewhat happy at that time.

[soulpope]

27 minutes ago, mhatta said:

I think the best Bud from the mid-50s is "Swingin' With Bud" on RCA (the counterpart, "Strictly Powell", not so much) ....

Why do you think so .... and what about "Bud plays Bird" .... ?

[Gheorghe]

18 minutes ago, mhatta said:

"The Scene Changes" is Bud's most popular work in Japan, and there is no Japanese jazz fan who does not know a tune called Cleopatra's Dream. I don't like it that much (I heard Toshiko Akiyoshi didn't know it and had to learn for recording).

I think the best Bud from the mid-50s is "Swingin' With Bud" on RCA (the counterpart, "Strictly Powell", not so much). By the way, that session has one unreleased song (Lullaby to A Believer), a lullaby written for Bud's son.  The tape survives and it is very sweet song (it was on a compilation CD once in Japan.) Borderick in The Scene Changes is another bright, cute song with a similar feel.  I guess Bud was somewhat happy at that time.

Very interesting to read about the listening preferences in your country. Yes, I can imagine it sold well in Japan, I have heard there were tea houses where they spinned a lot of hard bop, things like "Cool Struttin" by Sonny Clark and "Blues Walk" by Lou Donaldson were big hits in your country and "Cleopatra´s Dream" is a similar thing. 

Toshiko Akioshi is a top musician and we musicians have another situation like the avarage listener. We have learned a great deal of our knowledge about bop by listening to let´s say Bud Powell, but never had the ambition to collect each record and at least for a musician "Cleopatra´s Dream" does not offer much to do, it´s just a repeated phrase and the bridge does not offer much variation, so if we might play it with horns , with a good drummer and so on, we can "swing it" but there is very very little space to create something out of it. Same with "Danceland" or "Duid Deed" or what they are called. There is also an F-minor tune at up tempo, but it´s the same changes like Dizzy´s "Be Bop" and you can do much more with Dizzy´s tune with that tricky intro and so on, and as rhythmic pattern for drummers, than the more simple tune on "The Scene Changes". A pro pos: That title tune is quite weak, it is a bop tune in E-flat but only a far cry from "Wail". If I wanna play a Bud tune in E-flat we gonna play "Wail". 

The RCA records.----- well I never heard the Lullaby to a Beliver. I heard the happy stride tune on "Scene Changes" but it´s only an 8 bar pattern, repeated ad infinitum. Hear Bud doin´stride on "Nice Work" or on "Thou Swell and so on" or on some Monk tune, much better. 

I don´t know so much about Bud´s every day live, but at least from what I read in Peter Pullmann´s book the late 50´s was a very unhappy period for him. Hard to get gigs, after the "Birdland ´56" tour ended, he tried to sit in with Lester Young but it was not very successful, and there was very little occasions to perform in night clubs and if he did, I think he didn´t see a Cent, everything was "administrated" by Goodstein or later by Buttercup. He was not a free man.

[mhatta]

15 hours ago, soulpope said:

Why do you think so .... and what about "Bud plays Bird" .... ?

Strictly Powell (or Bud Plays Bird) is not a bad record (like the worst of Verve), but it is faltering and lackluster. Swingin' With Bud is full of energy and consistency, especially in the second half.  IMHO.

[soulpope]

4 hours ago, mhatta said:

Strictly Powell (or Bud Plays Bird) is not a bad record (like the worst of Verve), but it is faltering and lackluster. Swingin' With Bud is full of energy and consistency, especially in the second half.  IMHO.

Thnx .... do value both records (and late Bud Powell with his ups and downs overall), so rather a matter of personal preferences ....

[Gheorghe]

5 hours ago, mhatta said:

Strictly Powell (or Bud Plays Bird) is not a bad record (like the worst of Verve), but it is faltering and lackluster. Swingin' With Bud is full of energy and consistency, especially in the second half.  IMHO.

I would like Bud Plays Bird, it has some great moments, but there is two things that I had observed.

First of all, there is some tunes Bud never played, and it seems that the label had given him sheets for Bb-instruments, which is especially true on typical Bb tunes, if Bud plays them in C. 
Though there are great moments, it does not really catch the spirit of Bird or of Bop in general. Art Taylor seems to be on autopilot, you don´t hear interesting drum patterns, and even if the bass is ok, if a drummer is not doin his stuff, there aint much left for me to listen.....

Another point: Did you hear the Bud album where at least a half album ist done with Curtis Fuller ? 

I like the Fuller tracks very much, but almost hate the side with the trio tracks only. It´s really some boring stuff, a slow blues but not as strong as another blues on another album, some workman type medium tempo stuff, where Bud completly f...cks up the bass solos by Paul Chambers. 
You can comp a bit for the bassist when he soloes, but here it sounds like Bud want´s to destroy Paul Chambers´ solos. And the worst thing is a faster tune based on "Strike Up the Band".....but it is not even a tune, it is just runnin´ on that changes without any theme and it´s a wild cacophony, since nothing seems to work out ......

[soulpope]

24 minutes ago, Gheorghe said:

I would like Bud Plays Bird, it has some great moments, but there is two things that I had observed.

First of all, there is some tunes Bud never played, and it seems that the label had given him sheets for Bb-instruments, which is especially true on typical Bb tunes, if Bud plays them in C. 
Though there are great moments, it does not really catch the spirit of Bird or of Bop in general. Art Taylor seems to be on autopilot, you don´t hear interesting drum patterns, and even if the bass is ok, if a drummer is not doin his stuff, there aint much left for me to listen.....

It's a master class by George Duvivier 🧐🤓 ....

[Eric]

5 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

I would like Bud Plays Bird, it has some great moments, but there is two things that I had observed.

First of all, there is some tunes Bud never played, and it seems that the label had given him sheets for Bb-instruments, which is especially true on typical Bb tunes, if Bud plays them in C. 
Though there are great moments, it does not really catch the spirit of Bird or of Bop in general. Art Taylor seems to be on autopilot, you don´t hear interesting drum patterns, and even if the bass is ok, if a drummer is not doin his stuff, there aint much left for me to listen.....

Another point: Did you hear the Bud album where at least a half album ist done with Curtis Fuller ? 

I like the Fuller tracks very much, but almost hate the side with the trio tracks only. It´s really some boring stuff, a slow blues but not as strong as another blues on another album, some workman type medium tempo stuff, where Bud completly f...cks up the bass solos by Paul Chambers. 
You can comp a bit for the bassist when he soloes, but here it sounds like Bud want´s to destroy Paul Chambers´ solos. And the worst thing is a faster tune based on "Strike Up the Band".....but it is not even a tune, it is just runnin´ on that changes without any theme and it´s a wild cacophony, since nothing seems to work out ......

Thanks for all the critical analysis Gheorghe.  I am curious as to what post-1958 Bud you find interesting.

[Gheorghe]

1 hour ago, Eric said:

Thanks for all the critical analysis Gheorghe.  I am curious as to what post-1958 Bud you find interesting.

Well, maybe some analysis of mine is too critical, but that´s because I admire Bud Powell so much and took the best from him to learn something about the piano and still do. It also has to do with my listening habits. I can´t just listen to some good piano lines and blend out the rest, I mean it doesn´t need to have good sound quality since I´m not an audiophile and after 50years of playing on stage my hearing is quite f....ed up. But what I need is a good performance or session where all the others involved contribute to the music: In a trio the drummer and a good bass player, in group performances .....well I like them most.....
 

Starting from the very very first moment I heard Bud at the piano (the Birdland 1950 stuff with Bird and Fats, Curley Russell and Art Blakey), I got my standards to reach that level I hear on that recording, technically and musically. 
So, if you ask me about post 1958 recordings......let me see: 
1959 with Art Blakey´s jazz messengers ! 
1960 Essen Festival, trio and quartet with Hawk.
A trio performance with Pierre Michelot and Kenny Clark at Blue Note Café Paris, with very good drumming 
Sideman performance with Dexter Gordon in Paris, 
Tribute to Cannonball with Don Byas, 
to a lesser amount "Blues for Bouffemont", Bud still has something to say, but is a bit slowed down, but good Art Taylor. 

Edited February 28 by Gheorghe