Bud Powell: 1957-1958

[jazzbo]

Yes, Welcome!

[mikeweil]

I had a lot of Bud on LP, and sold it all and bought the Verve and Blue Note boxes, and some single CDs - e.g. the Bud Plays Bird CD - but never felt I needed the RCA sessions on CD. His last LP on Reprise is another one I didn't re-buy.

[Gheorghe]

Actually, Bud did his last recording for Verve in september 1956 ("Blues In The Closet")

"Strictly Powell" was done a month later, just before Bud went to Europe for the first time (tour "Birdland ´56").

"Swinging with Bud" sounds much more like vintage Bud Powell, he´s much more his old self on "Shaw ´Nuff" or "Salt Peanuts".

A few words about Bud´s last record for BlueNote "The Scene Changes": It´s quite interesting how Bud sounds much more like Sonny Clark on that record. It seems he had listened to some of the BlueNote albums by his younger fellow musicians and tried to run with the "hard boppers". Tunes like "Danceland", "Duid Deed" really sound like Sonny Clark.

[ccex]

I became a Bud Powell fanatic after listening to his last 3 Blue Note albums a couple of years ago. I had listened to the early Blue Notes, the Massey Hall concert, the Mosaic Box, and a Verve "best of" set for many years, thinking he was just the "Charlie Parker of the piano" pr a youngster encouraged by Monk. Then I read Francis Paudras' "Dance of the Infidels" about his years with Bud in Paris, and have been obsessed ever since with Bud's music from the last half of his career.

The 2 RCA sessions have some of the best sound quality ever, and some good takes. My favorite was at the end of the 1st session, and has not yet been commercially released: a new composition Bud performed solo called "A Lullabye to Believers" The liner notes on the original releases implied that Bud was troubled and this was not his best work, so the RCA sessions have been ignored for decades.

There are a few late Bud Powell recordings which I wish had never been released: "The Return of Bud Powell" for Roulette in Oct. '64, some of the '60s home recordings by Francis Paudras, some of the Edenville 7/64 sessions and, especially, much of the January 1955 sessions for Verve. Since they have been released, I know how troubled this genius could be.

I started another thread, in the discography section here, about Bud's very last recordings, issued as "Ups 'n Downs", and am ecstatic how posters here have nailed down the recording dates (1965-66). Bud's technique had declined quite a bit by then, but he still showed his intensity. His 1957-58 recordings were better than his last ones, using the same intensity but a darker, thicker technique than what he used to dazzle us in the late '40s/early '50s.

I'm one of the few who prefers late Bud to early Bud. I don't think I'll ever have the technique on piano to play early Bud. But after years of being belittled my family who encoouraged me to spend less time with music, I appreciate what Bud was still able to do after years of torture and imprisonment while the music kept burning inside him.

Actually, Bud did his last recording for Verve in september 1956 ("Blues In The Closet")

"Strictly Powell" was done a month later, just before Bud went to Europe for the first time (tour "Birdland ´56").

"Swinging with Bud" sounds much more like vintage Bud Powell, he´s much more his old self on "Shaw ´Nuff" or "Salt Peanuts".

A few words about Bud´s last record for BlueNote "The Scene Changes": It´s quite interesting how Bud sounds much more like Sonny Clark on that record. It seems he had listened to some of the BlueNote albums by his younger fellow musicians and tried to run with the "hard boppers". Tunes like "Danceland", "Duid Deed" really sound like Sonny Clark.

[Gheorghe]

I'm one of the few who prefers late Bud to early Bud. I don't think I'll ever have the technique on piano to play early Bud. But after years of being belittled my family who encoouraged me to spend less time with music, I appreciate what Bud was still able to do after years of torture and imprisonment while the music kept burning inside him.

Hey ccex, you also playin´piano? Great, me to. got a helluva compliment some time ago from my wife. I first was listening to some solo-Bud, and she was in the other room. Later I switched on piano and did some of Bud´s tunes and she said "oh that´s you playin´now? I thought it´s still the record since it sounds the same" .....

Well, I too sound more like late Bud, but nevertheless I try to play some of the faster stuff (Cherokee, Salt Peanuts, 52´nd Street Theme).

Another word about Bud´s playing around 1957: You sure know "Bud on Bach"...well, I also got another version of it on a Mythic CD "Cookin´at Saint Germain" and the first tune is "Bud on Bach". Bud uses it as an intro for a fantastic version of "Yesterdays" (both tunes have the same key c-minor).....

[Guest youmustbe]

Bud is also a very overlooked composer in the Jazz idiom. What attracted me to him was not only his playing, but his compositions.

As far as his later period, the music had changed in the 60's. When I heard him at Birdland in 64 the opposite band was Horace's new group with Henderson, Jones, Smith and Humphries. Thay sounded hip, 1964, while Bud sounded 'old'.

Maybe not fair, but Jazz moved so fast in those days stylistically. Today it is a classical music, pretty much at a standstill conceptually, so one can look back with more clarity. But back then it was... 'Next!'

[ccex]

Yes, I play piano, which my wife now takes for granted. The last time I played my favorite Bud Powell compositions (I'll Keep Loving You, Time Waits, Celia, Buster Rides Again, and Un Poco Loco) was at a large party after midnight. People there thanked me, saying they thought they were hearing records. I did the same at home when the plumber was working in the bathroom and told me he thought he was listening to the radio, but he couldn't name a local radio station that would have played those songs.

Yes, "Bud on Bach" is an ear-opener.

Hey ccex, you also playin´piano? Great, me to. got a helluva compliment some time ago from my wife. I first was listening to some solo-Bud, and she was in the other room. Later I switched on piano and did some of Bud´s tunes and she said "oh that´s you playin´now? I thought it´s still the record since it sounds the same" .....

Well, I too sound more like late Bud, but nevertheless I try to play some of the faster stuff (Cherokee, Salt Peanuts, 52´nd Street Theme).

Another word about Bud´s playing around 1957: You sure know "Bud on Bach"...well, I also got another version of it on a Mythic CD "Cookin´at Saint Germain" and the first tune is "Bud on Bach". Bud uses it as an intro for a fantastic version of "Yesterdays" (both tunes have the same key c-minor).....

[ccex]

I want to explore a little bit the notion that Bud's playing "declined" in the last decade of his life. Everyone says it's the result of the shock therapy, yada yada yada, and I understand that Bud in the late '40's was amazing. But yesterday, I was going through All Music Guide, and here's what they say about Bud's later recordings:

1964: Ups and Downs: "The great bop innovator had declined greatly since his prime days but actually plays better than one might expect."

1964: Salt Peanuts: "The recording quality is a little erratic on this set but Powell often sounds quite inspired."

...

1957: Swingin' With Bud: "Powell is in generally good form on this trio session."

1956: Strictly Powell: "Powell actually plays better on Strictly Powell than on his Verve dates of the period."

The above is every Bud recording between 1956 and 1964 that All Music reviewed. The Verves, for whatever reason, don't have reviews, just track listings.

We know that many artists' performing styles deepen and change as they get older, but the rap on Bud was that his quality declined. I don't see it from the above. The tone of most of these reviews is "Yeah, he's bad in other places, but not here." So where, exactly, are the bad performances?

There are lots of bad Bud Powell performances, and most are from the second half of his career (1954-1966).

I noticed that your AMG synopsis didn't include "The Return of Bud Powell" on Roulette from October 1964, where Bud's playing is routine. If he ever sold out, it was on this recording, made only so he and Francis Paudras could pay airfare back to France. Bud doesn't have much to say here, and almost refused to make this date when he saw he had to play with drummer J.C. Moses again. I much prefer the later "Ups 'n Downs", where Bud at least tries and says something, despite all his handicaps.

I'm not too fond of "Salt Peanuts" reissued on Black Lion, recorded in Edenville, France 7/64 with a bass player and drummer Bud met on the beach at the last moment. He played a dercrpit piano and his "vocalizations" (grunting) is distracting. Only Johnny Griffin redeems this one for me.

The AMG synopsis ignores the many "home recordings" of Bud (relased on Mythtic Sound, Pablo, or Piadrum), taped by Francis Paudras. A few of these are intersting, but most are of interest only to the most avid Bud fans.

In my opinion, the absolute worst and weirdest Bud recordings were made for Verve in 12/54 and 1/55. Bud falls apart on standards he knew, and played much better, even in his last years. On 1/13/55 he recorded a meandering theme which he titled "Mediocre", perhaps as a commentary to what he tried while falling apart at the keyboard the previous two days. "The Complete Bud Powell on Verve" has all of these, back to back. I wish many of these had never been issued.

Edited October 19, 2008 by ccex

[Gheorghe]

When I heard him at Birdland in 64 the opposite band was Horace's new group with Henderson, Jones, Smith and Humphries. Thay sounded hip, 1964, while Bud sounded 'old'.

Maybe not fair, but Jazz moved so fast in those days stylistically. Today it is a classical music, pretty much at a standstill conceptually, so one can look back with more clarity. But back then it was... 'Next!'

Maybe Bud was the first person to notice that. Anyway, he started to play one of Horace Silver´s compositions (No Smoking), and also his last recordings like "Ups `n Downs"....it almost sounds like a Horace Silver composition.

As much as I admire Bud as a composer I think his best compositions were from the early days. Themes he composed toward the end like "In A Mood For A Classic", "Yeheadeadeadee" (with it´s "Clock Sound" on the bass"), "Margarete" etc. are simple, beautiful lines, but compared to other stuff it sounds (even if I hate to say so) somehow corny....

[Gheorghe]

Yes, I play piano, which my wife now takes for granted. The last time I played my favorite Bud Powell compositions (I'll Keep Loving You, Time Waits, Celia, Buster Rides Again, and Un Poco Loco) was at a large party after midnight. People there thanked me, saying they thought they were hearing records. I did the same at home when the plumber was working in the bathroom and told me he thought he was listening to the radio, but he couldn't name a local radio station that would have played those songs.

Great! I´d wish I could hear you playing.....

Today I also did a little private "Bud Powell session", but I concentrated on tunes not written by Bud, but from his repertory: "I Hear Music", "Little Willie Leaps" (oh boy, that line often throws me )....and a version of "Round Midnight". 'But I´m sure you playin´better than me!

[Big Wheel]

I'm not too fond of "Salt Peanuts" reissued on Black Lion, recorded in Edenville, France 7/64 with a bass player and drummer Bud met on the beach at the last moment. He played a dercrpit piano and his "vocalizations" (grunting) is distracting. Only Johnny Griffin redeems this one for me.

Just listened to "Wee" on this one. Are my ears deceiving me or is Griffin playing alto on this track?! I know it was his first instrument but wow....it's scary how good he sounds on this.

[flat5]

I'm looking forward to hearing it, Big Wheel. Here is the data I've found.

Johnny Griffin - Bud Powell Quartet

Johnny Griffin (ts -5/9,14,15) Bud Powell (p) Guy Hayat (b) Jacques Gervais (d)

"Hotel-Restaurant La Belle Escale", Edenville, France, August 8-14, 1964

1. Salt Peanuts Fontana (F) 683 903 ZL

2. Move -

3. Bean And The Boys -

4. 52nd Street Theme -

5. Straight, No Chaser -

6. Wee -

7. Hot House -

8. Body And Soul Duke (It) D 1012

9. Wee Dot (Blues) -

10. I Know That You Know Black Lion (E) BLCD 760135

11. Star Eyes -

12. There Will Never Be Another You -

13. F. Chopin: Prelude N 20 Opus, XXVIII Mythic Sound MS 6008-1

14. Talking / Hot House -

15. Body And Soul -

16. Nice Work If You Can Get It -

17. Salt Peanuts -

18. If I Loved You -

19. Lady Bird -

20. Well, You Needn't Mythic Sound MS 6008-2

21. Crazy Rhythm -

22. I Remember Clifford Mythic Sound MS 6008-1

* Bud Powell - Hot House (Fontana (F) 683 903 ZL, (F) 883 903 ZY)

= Bud Powell - Salt Peanuts (Black Lion (E) BLCD 760121)

* Bud Powell In Europe (Duke (It) D 1012)

* Earl Bud Powell, Vol. 8 - Holidays In Edenville, 64 (Mythic Sound MS 6008-1, MS 6008-2)

* Bud Powell - The Invisible Cage (Black Lion (E) BLCD 760135)

In Aug. 1964 pianist Bud Powell and his friend/guardian Francis Paudras went on vacation to Edenville on the coast of France. Powell played at a small club each night in a very relaxed atmosphere. This CD contains some of the performances, four songs with a trio (that includes bassist Guy Hayat and drummer Jacques Gervais) and, best of all, three hot numbers that feature tenor great Johnny Griffin who makes the group a quartet. The recording quality is a little erratic on this set but Powell often sounds quite inspired. Scott Yanow, Rovi

Edited October 15, 2011 by flat5

[Gheorghe]

I love those Edenville recordings, even if the piano is not the best one. It´s an exiting session. I love the Mythic Sounds Collection also very much. Also got some unissued material, on which the french (relativly unknown) drummer is replaced with Al "Big" Jones, who plays better drums then the somewhat metronomic beat by Jaques Gervais, who I think was not a professional musician, more a music lover.

I also like very much the better recordings from september/october the same year at Birdland.

Some of the best Bud I heard from the European period are the to CDs from Lausanne and Geneva, Switzerland.

[mjzee]

There are only two RCA's: Strictly Powell and Swingin' with Bud. They were both reissued domestically in the late 90's, but now are sadly out-of-print. They were also reissued in Japan (around 2003, I think) in a BVCJ series (mini-LPs) — these versions sound amazing! (Hiroshi might still be able to get them. They were around 1700¥.)

Amazon has Strictly Powell as a download: Strictly Powell

Just noticed this on Amazon: $5.91 + shipping from a reseller:

[Gheorghe]

I decided to listen again to those two Victors. The second one „Swinging with Bud“ is somewhat better, more vintage Bud Powell. His „Shaw Nuff“ is nice, but not as good as later versions like from Essen-Germany 1960. His Salt Peanuts is very short, like the version on the 1955 „The Lonely One“.

One thing that disturbs me on those mid fifties recordings is that there is no real interaction between the musicians. On the early 1955 recordings which are weak anyway, Art Blakey is on drums but you don´t hear him.

Another album from the 1957/1958 period is Roulette´s „Bud plays Bird“. It´s similar to „Swining with Bud“, has longer solos, but to little interaction with the bass and the drummer. Art Taylor was such a great drummer, he could do much better that that metronomic beat all over „Bud Plays Bird“.

Anyway it seems that from the late 50´s on, Bud somehow returned to his „act“. In 1956 (Strictly Bud Powell) it seems like he didn´t want to take no risks, playing mostly medium tempos and good sections of block chords. Again, bass and drums do not contribute much to the music.

To be inspired, Bud needed musicians who would respond to his phrases, to interact with him.

I know it was recorded in the studio, but it´s so strange, „Striclty Powell“ sounds like if the bass and the drums would have been recorded before and Bud would have played over it later. Even the sound is somewhat blurred. I´m not an audiophile, I dig most club dates and even bad tuned pianos, but it´s got to be music played in an inspired mode.

[Pete C]

Re: "late" Powell, I'm late to this discussion, but here's my take:

Powell in '53 (mostly live recordings) was OK, but a less nimble version of his former self.

Most of the later Verves and RCA recordings to me are painfully bad.

For the later Blue Note sessions he seems to have come up with a modified, more hard bop and less bop-virtuosic style that worked well enough, but couldn't compare to 1946-51.

From '59-'63 he seems to have returned to his classic style, and at times he sounds as brilliant as ever (e.g. Lausanne, Portrait of Thelonious, and a few others).

Blues for Bouffemont is an interesting document of Bud at the end and how erratic he was: the first session has some brilliant moments and the second session is an incoherent mess.

[Gheorghe]

Re: "late" Powell, I'm late to this discussion, but here's my take:

Powell in '53 (mostly live recordings) was OK, but a less nimble version of his former self.

Most of the later Verves and RCA recordings to me are painfully bad.

For the later Blue Note sessions he seems to have come up with a modified, more hard bop and less bop-virtuosic style that worked well enough, but couldn't compare to 1946-51.

From '59-'63 he seems to have returned to his classic style, and at times he sounds as brilliant as ever (e.g. Lausanne, Portrait of Thelonious, and a few others).

Blues for Bouffemont is an interesting document of Bud at the end and how erratic he was: the first session has some brilliant moments and the second session is an incoherent mess.

I agree with you about the Blue Note sessions from 1957,58. Especially on „The Scene Changes“, Bud sounds very much like Sonny Clark on that album. It seems that Bud wanted to add something to the hard bop boom of the late fifties, even the compositions „Cleopatras Dream“ and „Duid Deed“ sound very much like hard bop. It´s like Dexter Gordon, who was some influence for John Coltrane, and later got some of Trane´s stuff in his playing.

It´s true, that Bud later returned to his early style. Some of the best recordings are from 1959, when he sat in with Blakey´s Jazz Messengers. Those two versions of „Bouncing with Bud“ and „Dance with the Infidels“ are as great as the 1949 recordings, even more interesting, because Bud plays more chorusses, each of them brilliant.

I didn´t understand, why „Blues for Bouffemont“ should be weak. And I havent heard about two sessions. This album was recorded on July 31 1964 in the studio. I like the bop tunes „Moose The Mooche“, „Relaxin at Camerillo“, „Little Willie Leaps“ and the new originals „Una Noche Con Francis“ and „In the Mood for a Classic“ (dedicated to Randy Hultin).

There was no other studio date. But I got the Mythic Sound CD with some rehearsals one day before the recording date. Only Bud and the french bass player doing the two mentioned originals as a rehearsal. Bud is great on that also.

Maybe you think it is more relaxed as a studio album. Later , back in New York, if you got him right, he still had much to say. I got 15 hours of Bud ad Birdland, much of it is great, Bud got a more Monkish touch and still is very strong. Only on the studio recording „The Return of Bud Powell“ it seems that he had some cups before the session started, anyway how inspired can you be if the only reason to make a recording is to get some tickets back to France? (where he anyway didn´t return).

[Pete C]

The Black Lion release of Blues for Bouffemont I have on disc has the studio session we both like, followed by another session (live?) with a different rhythm section from about the same time. Here's the track listing from the Black Lion CD:

In The Mood For A Classic - 5.44

Like Someone I Love - 6.52

Una Noche Con Francis - 3.30

Relaxin' At Camarillo - 4.14

Moose The Mooche - 3.40

Blues For Bouffemont - 5.42

Little Willie Leaps - 4.04

My Old Flame - 4.17

I Know That You Know - 3.53

Star Eyes - 6.16

There Will Never Be Another You - 3.53

The last 3 tracks are from this session, just the trio w/o Griffin:

Johnny Griffin (ts -5/9,14,15) Bud Powell (p) Guy Hayat (b) Jacques Gervais (d)

"Hotel-Restaurant La Belle Escale", Edenville, France, August 8-14, 1964

That's the Edenville session that ccex is rightly horrified by.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Pete C

[Gheorghe]

hi Pete C!

Ok, that means you got a CD with some bonus tracks from the Edenville live sessions. I got the whole Edenville Material, the first release was the album "Hot House", now titled "Salt Peanuts", and many stuff from those happy holidays at Edenville just before Bud returned to USA. I dont think it is weak, well the piano is a club piano, the bass and drummer are just amateurs, not professional musicians. If someone tells me that´s weak Bud, I´d ask him how he would play with this, and a sad piano. Anyway the best moments are with Griffin, the extended tracks "Straight No Chaser, Wee, HotHouse (on the original LP is just a short version, I got the 18 minute version, and one long title mistiteld "Happy Blues at Edenville" which actually is "Wee Dot", with "Disorder at the Border" on the out chorus.

I don´t care if the sound quality is weak, my ears are be-bop trained, heard worse recordings.

If I have enough time, I listen to the whole Edenville stuff, some hours of music.

Hope, I could give you some infos on those last days of Bud in Paris.

Actually, the former "Fontana" label, later "Black Lion" issued about four albums of Bud: "Hawk in Germany" (1960 Essen Festival: Bud, O.P., Klook, Hawk), "Strictly Confidential" (late 1963/early 1964 Bud p-solo with Francis Paudras on brushes on newspaper), "Blues for Bouffémont" aka "The Invisible Cage" which you know, and "Hot House" aka "Salt Peanuts".

Plus the stuff on "Mythic Sounds" Vol. 8 "Holydays at Edenville", plus some rare material that I´m glad I have.....

[Gheorghe]

The Black Lion release of Blues for Bouffemont I have on disc has the studio session we both like, followed by another session (live?) with a different rhythm section from about the same time. Here's the track listing from the Black Lion CD:

In The Mood For A Classic - 5.44

Like Someone I Love - 6.52

Una Noche Con Francis - 3.30

Relaxin' At Camarillo - 4.14

Moose The Mooche - 3.40

Blues For Bouffemont - 5.42

Little Willie Leaps - 4.04

My Old Flame - 4.17

I Know That You Know - 3.53

Star Eyes - 6.16

There Will Never Be Another You - 3.53

The last 3 tracks are from this session, just the trio w/o Griffin:

Johnny Griffin (ts -5/9,14,15) Bud Powell (p) Guy Hayat (b) Jacques Gervais (d)

"Hotel-Restaurant La Belle Escale", Edenville, France, August 8-14, 1964

That's the Edenville session that ccex is rightly horrified by.

I just noticed, that my CD also has those 3 bonus tracks from Edenville.

The only "fault" is, that the bass player and the drummer are not professional musicians, but they try to do their best. Can´t see nothing "erratic" in Bud´s playing. He does his best to keep the stuff together, dig his block chords on Star Eyes, who else could play that way, really deep...

[king ubu]

On these Edenville sessions, the info on all releases is botched!

Jacques Gervais is the bassist, Al "Big" Jones is the drummer (on "Straight No Chaser" w/Griffin, which again ran for 14:54 before the bass solo was edited out - it runs 13:41 on all releases).

Guy Hayat is the drummer on the other released cuts (with Gervais still on bass).

Just happened to play some of this music yesterday - some great, relaxed playing from Bud, and some amazing Griffin!

[Big Wheel]

On these Edenville sessions, the info on all releases is botched!

Jacques Gervais is the bassist, Al "Big" Jones is the drummer (on "Straight No Chaser" w/Griffin, which again ran for 14:54 before the bass solo was edited out - it runs 13:41 on all releases).

Guy Hayat is the drummer on the other released cuts (with Gervais still on bass).

Just happened to play some of this music yesterday - some great, relaxed playing from Bud, and some amazing Griffin!

Can you confirm my belief that Griffin is playing alto on Wee?

[king ubu]

On these Edenville sessions, the info on all releases is botched!

Jacques Gervais is the bassist, Al "Big" Jones is the drummer (on "Straight No Chaser" w/Griffin, which again ran for 14:54 before the bass solo was edited out - it runs 13:41 on all releases).

Guy Hayat is the drummer on the other released cuts (with Gervais still on bass).

Just happened to play some of this music yesterday - some great, relaxed playing from Bud, and some amazing Griffin!

Can you confirm my belief that Griffin is playing alto on Wee?

Will have to listen again to that particular track... but with the discussion here faintly in memory, I did think that Griffin's tenor sounded kind of high at least once while listening. The sources all says it's tenor (including the source that rectifies the perennially wrong Gervais/Hayat information).

[Gheorghe]

I´m sure it´s a tenor axe. But anyway, the Edenville stuff, especially the tracks with Griff are too sharp, about a half note. I got perfect pitch and noticed, that Wee, a B-flat tune sounds almost like B natural. Same with the "Wee Dot" from an italian bootleg, titled only as "Blues", it sound´s like B natural. And Straight No Chaser and Body and Soul suffer from the same problem.

I got the full version of Hot House, it´s about 18 minutes. On the record it´s only 5 minutes and starts with Griff in the background while the bass player is walking on a kind of a "bass solo", you can hear Griff saying "that´s Guy" (Guy Hayat).

Got three tracks from another day from the Edenville tapes, it´s with Al "Big" Jones on drums and sounds better on drums.

[king ubu]

Sounds like an alto, but sounds so much like Griffin on tenor that I think it's a tenor indeed. And yes, the speed came to mind, too - the whole sound of these recordings is pretty bad and a sharp/fast pitch might well explain the illusion of an alto.

What about the bassist/drummer now? I'm confused... got to play that full "Hot House" now as well (it's on the Pablo CD "Bebop" only).