2006-2007 Hot Stove Thread

[Dan Gould]

As far as I am concerned, this makes up for Jeter receiving the Gold Glove instead of Alex Gonzales. That was a crime.

But Jeter had a better year at the plate. So of course he deserved the Gold Glove.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Quincy]

As far as I am concerned, this makes up for Jeter receiving the Gold Glove instead of Alex Gonzales. That was a crime.

But Jeter had a better year at the plate. So of course he deserved the Gold Glove.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Maybe I used the wrong emoticon. It's an old joke about the Gold Gloves. Ah, thank you Baseball Reference. The most famous case of GG idiocy was in 1999 when Rafael Palmeiro won at 1st base. He played 28 games at 1st. No, that is not a typo. Twenty-eight games at 1st and he won the Gold Glove. He did hit 47 HRs however, which is how the Gold Glove is measured.

[Quincy]

The Dugout's "Chat Room" take on Jeter's Gold Glove. Looks like they were wrong about MVP though.

[BERIGAN]

WTF is up with the AL MVP?

What is there to say; I love it.

Sent from the Home of the Minnesota Twins.

Indeed, WTF is up when the man who led the league in homers and RBIs doesn't get a single first place vote, and even gets placed as low as 7th on one ballot? Ridiculous.

I've got no problem with Morneau winning, he had an outstanding year for a team that came back from nowhere to win the division. Plus his name isn't Derek Jeter.

As far as I am concerned, this makes up for Jeter receiving the Gold Glove instead of Alex Gonzales. That was a crime.

Keith Law on Espn said it was laughable that Morneau won.... I think Law is laughable. He says Morneau wasn't even the most valuable player on his team. Well, that may be true, but would the twins have won without him this year????

Jeter is starting to get on my nerves. Well, even more than usual. Doesn't stick up for A-Rod, and did anyone see the page 2 story about him, and all the honey's he dated? Both Jessica Biel and Jessica Alba????

[BERIGAN]

The Dugout's "Chat Room" take on Jeter's Gold Glove. Looks like they were wrong about MVP though.

Weird ! Funny, but weird!

[Quincy]

The Dugout's "Chat Room" take on Jeter's Gold Glove. Looks like they were wrong about MVP though.

Weird ! Funny, but weird!

Yeah, the first time someone gave me the link I scratched my head and didn't go back for awhile. But now I'm addicted. They've been having one a day now for a couple of weeks. Sometimes they miss (or I don't get it), but it's a good silly (and usually topical) addition to the morning web baseball-go-round. They capture the "Jeter as punk" persona perfectly, and Jim Thome often appears as a warm-hearted goofy half-wit. I like it!

[Dan Gould]

Well, interesting news from the Halos - they get the second best everyday player available, Gary Matthews Jr for five years/50 million dollars. Not sure if its a great deal - he's never lived up to his potential until this year, and he did at the somewhat advanced age of 31 (advanced for a free agent, that is).

What's critical though is that this is likely the "big splash" that the Angel's owner said he'd make, and that means they are likely out of the Manny business (which seemed likely even before, when their manager said he wants an OF who does more than just hit but can field and run, too).

That leaves Texas and Philadelphia as the only likely places left (the Mets aren't likely with their signing of Alou) and who knows if Manny would approve them anyway. I could deal with Texas if it netted us Michael Young or Teixera, but the Phillies have got bubkus, or in the case of Burrell, much less than bupkus. Would the Astros step up now with Lidge and some other pieces? They desperately need offense, and Manny could do some real damage in that stadium. But Manny's knee couldn't handle the turf at this point, I don't think.

I was really hoping we'd keep Manny unless it would net us a bunch of arms from the Angels, so I guess I should be glad that the Angels signed someone else.

[Quincy]

Would the Astros step up now with Lidge and some other pieces? They desperately need offense, and Manny could do some real damage in that stadium. But Manny's knee couldn't handle the turf at this point, I don't think.

Minute Mud is natural grass. Manny hitting in that park should be illegal! He'll destroy the Crawford boxes with his hits.

[Dan Gould]

Would the Astros step up now with Lidge and some other pieces? They desperately need offense, and Manny could do some real damage in that stadium. But Manny's knee couldn't handle the turf at this point, I don't think.

Minute Mud is natural grass. Manny hitting in that park should be illegal! He'll destroy the Crawford boxes with his hits.

Why did I think it was turf? Oh well ... yeah, don't they have a choo-choo train that goes around on home runs? He'd probably break up the tracks with a line drive.

[BERIGAN]

Would the Astros step up now with Lidge and some other pieces? They desperately need offense, and Manny could do some real damage in that stadium. But Manny's knee couldn't handle the turf at this point, I don't think.

Minute Mud is natural grass. Manny hitting in that park should be illegal! He'll destroy the Crawford boxes with his hits.

Why did I think it was turf? ...

Cuz you're old, and when you think Houston you think Astrodome?

[BERIGAN]

Dan, the rumor in ATL was Andruw Jones to the Angels for a slew of players....any rumors about the Sox trying to get Andruw???

by the by, the "braintrust" in Atlanta released Gary Jr a few years ago...during spring training.

Edited November 23, 2006 by BERIGAN

[Dan Gould]

Conrad,

I was definitely thinking of the "new" Houston park, what I didn't think is that the roof opens and closes, so I was assuming it has turf. The roof opens and closes, right?

As for Andruw, he's a definite potential target and probably the only "available" player who could come close to protecting Papi like Manny does (he and Vernon Wells, and I don't think the Jays will trade him within the division, and won't let him go anytime soon anyway).

And Gary Jr. had a .249 career average heading into last season! There's a reason he's been such an underachiever. I have to wonder whether the Angels are setting themselves up for a repeat of the Mariners experience with that over-paid third baseman. Plus I was wrong about his age, he's 32 already. Good for him to finally perform and cash in, but ...

[Matthew]

Can't say I'm sold on Matthews Jr. either. He was an average player for all his career, and then what, he gets vastly better. The only player that I can remember getting really better late in his career is Bill Robinson, the old Pirate guy. If this was a couple of years ago, and a player got that much better in a season.....

[Soulstation1]

when will the tribe pick up someone 35+ YO?

[Matthew]

when will the tribe pick up someone 35+ YO?

Here you go!

[Dan Gould]

Didn't I read how Carlos Lee, at 270 lbs and climbing, is headed towards being a DH, if not ending up like Mo Vaughn? So I take it that's why Houston gave him Soriano money (6 years/100 mil)? I know he's been a decent power/RBI guy, but that's all he's got, and if he doesn't get his weight under control, he's going to break down before this contract is up. That's some messed up shit, if you ask me.

Guess the Red Sox can cross off another team from Manny's list.

[Matthew]

Looks like the Redsox are down to JD Drew, my guess is five years at 90 million. Sounds crazy, but that's how the market is going.

[Dan Gould]

Looks like the Redsox are down to JD Drew, my guess is five years at 90 million. Sounds crazy, but that's how the market is going.

I don't think the Red Sox were in on Lee or Soriano but I suspect you are right about Drew and that is going to be a disaster on more levels than I can count.

[Dan Gould]

There's a three page article in the Globe about how the Red Sox are "quietly" but "aggressively" pursuing Drew. Also mentions that when he actually plays, he's a superior performer, ranking in the top 11, right alongside A-Rod, in OPS over the last three years.

But then it talks about his "attitude" and his relationship with teammates, and this really stands out:

Drew ... also has been the subject of intense media criticism for a perceived lack of passion, especially when it came to playing hurt. His nickname in the Dodger clubhouse, according to one big league coach, was "Nancy Drew," and according to one major leaguer who has played against Drew for much of his career, one Dodger player greeted the news of Drew's departure by phoning friends in jubilation.

Some of that same undercurrent was present when he was with the Cardinals. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Buzz Bissinger, who spent much of the 2003 season with the Cardinals for a book entitled "Three Nights in August," wrote in the book that Cardinals manager Tony La Russa "wondered whether Drew's underlying ailment, like it was for so many young players coming into sudden millions, was an absence of sustained passion that had no medical remedy."

When questioned about those comments La Russa said that it was Bissinger's interpretation -- hardly a denial. Drew, meanwhile, told a reporter for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that he had not read the book.

I just can't understand why Theo doesn't see the impending disaster in courting a guy who doesn't exhibit any passion, doesn't like pressure or intense media scrutiny, and doesn't care what the fans think. And he wants to replace Trot Nixon with this clown? Nixon might not have the same tools, but he dealt with the lunacy of the clubhouse/press and left it all out on the field, where fans loved him.

And to top it off, it leaves Wily Mo without a job.

[BERIGAN]

Dan, have you read much about those Manny to the Giants rumors? Doesn't seem like the Giants have much to offer, and after giving the Twins 3 HOF'ers,(for a one year rental of A.J. what's his name) I would think they would be wary of any trades ever again!

[Dan Gould]

Dan, have you read much about those Manny to the Giants rumors? Doesn't seem like the Giants have much to offer, and after giving the Twins 3 HOF'ers,(for a one year rental of A.J. what's his name) I would think they would be wary of any trades ever again!

The Globe says they're talking about a three-way trade - I don't think the Giants have much to offer, either. And frankly, is trading for a guy who turns 35 in May the way to get "younger and more athletic"?

[Dan Gould]

Looks like Manny really is on the way out. According to ESPN:

Updated: Nov. 27, 2006, 7:41 PM ET

MLB official: Ramirez might be dealt by Saturday

By Buster Olney

ESPN The Magazine

The Red Sox are aggressively shopping outfielder Manny Ramirez now, according to major league sources, at a time when the slugger's trade value has peaked, and there is a sense among some executives that their trade talks are gaining momentum.

"I wouldn't be shocked if the Red Sox traded him by Saturday," says one big league official.

By Saturday, Boston's negotiations with free agent outfielder J.D. Drew are expected to finish officially with a multiyear agreement. At that point, Boston will be in better position to trade Ramirez, who has driven in more than 100 runs in each of his six years with the Red Sox, and in 11 of the last 12 seasons. Ramirez has been an extraordinary producer of runs for Boston, and an equally extraordinary producer of melodrama. He has asked for trades repeatedly, has often played at something less than full speed, and at the end of the 2006 season, there was some question about whether he made a full effort to play with a sore knee.

Among the teams involved in the conversations:

• The San Francisco Giants, who might have to involve a third team to become a serious player in this market, or perhaps swallow some of Boston's worst contracts, like that of pitcher Matt Clement.

• The San Diego Padres, who can build a deal around reliever Scott Linebrink.

• The Dodgers, who are starved for power hitters, loaded with prospects and could probably offer the best possible package of youngsters, from third baseman Andy LaRoche to pitcher Chad Billingsley to outfielder Matt Kemp. Before the August 31 trade deadline, the Red Sox tried to pry first baseman James Loney from L.A. in return for pitcher David Wells, but the Dodgers refused. The Red Sox may resume their pursuit of Loney and perhaps relief pitcher Jonathan Broxton.

• The Rangers have had talks about Ramirez, but as recently as last week, the Red Sox still preferred to talk about a swap of shortstop Michael Young for Ramirez -- a deal that almost certainly won't happen.

The Orioles have spoken with the Red Sox about Ramirez recently, but their conversations hadn't advanced in recent days. The Indians and Red Sox talked last week, but those conversations are dead; the cost in salary and prospects were simply too high for the Indians. The Angels and Red Sox had talked in the past about a Manny deal, but those conversations have apparently ended.

Ramirez has 10-and-5 rights and can veto any deal, so the team working on a trade involving him would have to negotiate a settlement with Ramirez to get him to accept the swap.

Executives with other teams say that in order to move Ramirez, Boston will have to come to grips with the idea that they will not get back major league talent equal to that of Ramirez; rather, they might have to settle for a deal much like the Gary Sheffield trade the Yankees made early in November, when they got three pitching prospects from Detroit. There are indications now that Boston's trade demands for Ramirez are dropping, to facilitate a deal. "They seem motivated to move him," said an AL official. Ramirez signed an eight-year, $160 million deal with Boston after the 2000 season, and his contract was considered all but untradeable as recently as six months ago because of an annual salary that approaches $20 million; the Red Sox placed him on waivers after the 2003 season, and nobody was willing to even take him for free at that time.

But the recent salary explosion -- Alfonso Soriano's $136 million deal, Carlos Lee's $100 million contract -- has cast Ramirez and his salary in a different light.

If the Red Sox complete a Ramirez trade, there would be an enormous hole in the Boston lineup. But it may be that the Red Sox have other plans in the works if they gain contractual flexibility with a Ramirez deal, and with the addition of Drew and possible addition of Julio Lugo at shortstop, they might feel like they will still have a deep lineup.

A Ramirez trade may also have an enormous impact on No. 3 hitter David Ortiz. "That guy will draw about 200 walks next year without Manny hitting behind him," said one scout. "I don't care who it is who bats fourth instead of Manny -- J.D. Drew, or Wily Mo Pena, whoever -- he won't be as dangerous as Manny was, because Manny can hit good pitching."

If they're going to let Manny go for prospects, they damn well better be planning to flip those for Andruw Jones, because otherwise there will be one gigantic hole in the lineup, Papi will, as the article says, walk 200 times, and the pitching will have to be extraordinary to make up for the decline in offense.

[Brad]

I know the guy is not the easiest to deal with but all he does is produce. Why the annual rite of trying to trade Manny?

[BERIGAN]

I know the guy is not the easiest to deal with but all he does is produce. Why the annual rite of trying to trade Manny?

Brad, this column explains it to some degree.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds..._move_on_manny/

[Dan Gould]

I know the guy is not the easiest to deal with but all he does is produce. Why the annual rite of trying to trade Manny?

I'm with you, Brad, but the fact is there are many reasons:

The contract was regarded as a financial albatross (less so now that only two guaranteed years remain; plus this year's contracts make it seem like Manny's 20 mil a year (3 mil deferred) look downright economical).

Manny has kept asking for a trade, over and over and over and over again. He's been asking out ever since he arrived. He hates the intrusive fans and media, which is why he's always wanted to go to LA.

Manny's lack of all-out effort over 162 games - the ever popular "Manny being Manny"