Top Ten Free Jazz Underground Records

[Shannon Dickey]

Mr. Nessa,

What exactly does yr emoticon mean?

Are you being snide? (couldn't be!).

I own most (98 percent) of the LPs you put out, and love them.

What are your feelings about Arthur Doyle?

C'mon, you can do it!!!

-------HB

[Chuck Nessa]

I think he's a lame sideshow. Good for a dime but I'll keep my quarter.

Is that clear enough?

[clifford_thornton]

Clem: Thank you for the poem.

Edited October 26, 2006 by clifford_thornton

[JSngry]

Who am I going to believe - a resume or my ears?

Besides - "playing in R&B bands" don't necessarily mean shit, especially in the South. For everybody who's used that as a training ground/stepping stone/whatever, ther's been somebody for whom it was the best gig they could ever hope for, because playing little doobie-doop background licks stretched their limitations almost to the breaking point. Trust me on this one, I've spent more than a few years around that scene up close and very personal. Beautiful people & beautiful times, but the"talent level" varies extremely wildly. You got horn players playing with "name acts" (especially on the chitlin' circuit) who can't play shit. And you got some baaaaaaaaaaaad motherfuckers standing right next to 'em night after night. It's that kind of world, and I do know it well.

Plenty of "romance" about "free jazz", plenty of projections of fantasies, both heroic & escapist, plenty of "nurses" looking for patients to heal, plentyof wanting to champion a cause just to have something to champion that's not totally slimey, and more than a little wearing of the music as a badge of "nonconformity". But that's all from the outside. From the inside, it's like anything else - if you want to make something worthwhile, it takes work, hard work, dedication, and a refusal to bullshit yourself. And like anything else, there's guys who get over on the strength of the spirit overcoming the flesh.

And like anything else, there's guys whose accepted presence has much less to do with ability or spirit than the fact that everybody loves a clown.

[Shannon Dickey]

Mr.Nessa,

Save yr quarters for some q-tips, nutty.

Unflexible opinions are just that: Unflexible.

Your guest is as good as mine!!

------HB

[JSngry]

Your gust, however, leaves something to be desired...

[JSngry]

YO!

[Shannon Dickey]

For JSngry:

My Gust? It leaves something to be desired? Do tell.

My gust?!? WTF?

What do you 'desire'?

"The Ear of the Behearer"

---"gusty" HB

[clifford_thornton]

Your gust, however, leaves something to be desired...

Dude... there was a "FWIW" in there, in advance of your reply and familiarity with "the circuit."

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

speaking of gigs--

dude, imagine being in this horn section

authority stealing,

c

Thanks Clem - MUCH better than the studio recording!

You gonna start a Fela thread?

MG

PS - I hope that video didn't cut off just before Lekan Animasaun started to solo!

Edited October 26, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[7/4]

YO!

What he said!

[clifford_thornton]

Wrote up my own little pissing contest as per E's request. Anybody care?

[ep1str0phy]

Wrote up my own little pissing contest as per E's request. Anybody care?

Considering that our tastes tend to overlap, and how certain threads seem to have lapsed into all-out gang warfare, can't be no harm in seeing--at the very least, we got some good recs.

[AllenLowe]

well, he may not be much of a saxophonist, but I sure like his Sherlock Holmes books -

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, didn't Ecstatic Peace put out those books in silkscreened editions of 99? I think they came with a 7-inch or something...

[AllenLowe]

just found some of his music on the internet - well, he will join Daniel Johnston and Loren Mazzacane as another musician inexplicably granted a hipness quotient by the truly un-knowing -

[Late]

Thurston left off some of those early Michel Portals.

I still want to hear Jouck Minor.

[Rabshakeh]

On 25/10/2006 at 6:03 PM, Late said:

Anyone feel like putting their neck out and creating their own "Top Ten" list?

It looks like in the years since this thread was first active a few people have taken up your suggestion.  

Here are two: one from a blog called “The Hum” and one from an online magazine called FACT.

https://blogthehum.com/2018/07/24/the-hums-top-ten-from-the-free-jazz-underground-sixteen-masterpieces-missed-by-thurston-moore/

https://www.factmag.com/2015/03/11/20-private-press-free-jazz/

The Hum one is a direct response to Thurston Moore’s list and for some reason seems at times to be attempting the same sort of Hunter S. Pseudoscenester style, although it isn't so full on. 

The FACT one looks like a more interesting selection, and is generally more sober and informative.  

There are some great records on both. Many that I didn’t know about before reading.

I’d really like to hear any thoughts people on the forum have about them.  

On 26/10/2006 at 10:02 PM, clifford_thornton said:

Wrote up my own little pissing contest as per E's request. Anybody care?

On 27/10/2006 at 7:02 AM, ep1str0phy said:

Considering that our tastes tend to overlap, and how certain threads seem to have lapsed into all-out gang warfare, can't be no harm in seeing--at the very least, we got some good recs.

Also, there was talk about people’s own lists.  

If anyone has one or wants to have a go at doing one I’d love to see it.  

Even with the luxury of a whole three lists out there on the internet, this isn’t an easy type of music to find out about.  Given the depth of knowledge (and, in some cases, personal involvement at the time) of people on this forum, i think it would be really worth it. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Rabshakeh

[clifford_thornton]

Digging up an old thread sure brings up a lot of memories; I wish I was a little less of a turkey posting on here 14 years ago, but whatever. Thurston's improvising has either grown on me or he's gotten better, quieter, taken more time -- something like that. I've had all the stuff he mentions on that list for many years, and all of it is deserving of mention. The thing is, he wrote that shit in 1995 so some things like the first Michel Portal record on Pathé or Giorgio Gaslini's Nuovi Sentimenti or Takagi Mototeru's 2 to 10 Saxophone Adventure (find that one and send it to me) probably weren't yet on his radar. There's always stuff to learn about. Jouck Minor is a fabulous player.

Jon Dale's list is pretty good. I don't do lists anymore because every fuckin' day I hear something I haven't heard before, even in the albums I already own. Ain't that beautiful?

I miss clem.

 

[mjazzg]

43 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

Thurston's improvising has either grown on me or he's gotten better, quieter, taken more time -- something like that.

I sincerely hope so. Less than ten years ago I saw him with John Butcher, John Edwards and Mak Sanders. He seemingly paid absolutely no attention to the others, ploughed his own furrow drowning them out for the best part of an hour's improv.  It was either a bold statement of musical independence or ignorance.  I know which one I felt it was.

Love nearly everything he's done with SY btw

[clifford_thornton]

same, SY are one of my favorite bands of all time.

I did really enjoy the Spirit Counsel concert last year w/ Deb Googe, James Sedwards, and Steve Shelley. Great music, full of subtlety. 

[mjazzg]

Maybe he's learnt in the last ten years...spends enough time at Oto to be able to

All this talk of Jouck Minor intrigues.  What do I need to know about him?  I see a trio with Thelin and Favre, any good?

[clifford_thornton]

Excellent, intense French saxophonist. The trio with Thelin and Favre is good and he's on Portal's excellent Splendid Yzlment (CBS), but the group Armonicord and its LP "Esprits de Sel" is really where he shines. That record is wonderful, and heavy as all get-out.

https://www.discogs.com/Armonicord-Esprits-De-Sel/release/1464440

[mjazzg]

Thanks CT. I bought that Portal only recently, hadn't made the connection. Great record.

[Rabshakeh]

4 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

The thing is, he wrote that shit in 1995 so some things like the first Michel Portal record on Pathé or Giorgio Gaslini's Nuovi Sentimenti or Takagi Mototeru's 2 to 10 Saxophone Adventure (find that one and send it to me) probably weren't yet on his radar. There's always stuff to learn about. Jouck Minor is a fabulous player.

I have to say, none of them were on my radar either. I've been listening to the Michael Portal which is great.

Looking forward to chomping through the rest, but any other recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

One strange effect of lists of "most obscure artists" like these is that they change who is actually obscure. A fair number of Thurston Moore's are now reissued (BAG, Nipples, Duo Exchange) and more easily available than some more prominent artists.