Hot Ptah Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 One interesting thing that a fellow musician/Zappa freak I know pointed out was that with all Zappa's love of jazz and clear understanding of music theory, he never played changes. It was always just freak out, usually mixolydian or some other basic alteration. My guess is that he couldn't. Playing over any kind of changes is an understandable concept, but a bit of a problem for some of us to execute in real time. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Apart from any recorded evidence, I heard him play some solos live in the fall of 1975 which were structured, very beautiful, and played over the changes. He did not just "always freak out." Like what exactly? I do not understand the question. He was playing extended solos in a long instrumental passage which also included a soprano sax solo by Norma Jean Bell and a piano solo by Andre Lewis. The head that they played was "Chunga's Revenge", but they departed from that to a large extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Like what exactly? I do not understand the question. He was playing extended solos in a long instrumental passage which also included a soprano sax solo by Norma Jean Bell and a piano solo by Andre Lewis. The head that they played was "Chunga's Revenge", but they departed from that to a large extent. Was this from a bootleg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_esq Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 from www.zappa.com FRANK ZAPPA Imaginary Diseases $17.00 1. Oddients 1:13 2. Rollo 3:21 3. Been To Kansas City In A Minor 10:15 4. Farther O'Blivion 16:02 5. D.C. Boogie 13:27 6. Imaginary Diseases 9:45 7. Montreal 9:11 Produced by FZ All tracks mixed, edited & tweaked by FZ Vaultmeisterment & Compilation by Joe Travers, UMRK Mastered by Doug Sax & Robert Hadley Original 1972 masters recorded by Barry Keene Mix engineers: Kerry McNabb, Michael Braunstein, Davey Moire Executive Production, Art Direction & Text by GZ Liner notes by Steve Vai Photos by Bernard Gardner & others Design & Layout by Tracy Veal October 27-December 15, 1972 FZ--conductor, guitar, vocals Tony Duran--slide guitar Malcolm McNab--trumpet Gary Barone--trumpet, flugelhorn Tom Malone--tuba, saxes, piccolo trumpet, trumpet Bruce Fowler--trombone Glenn Ferris--trombone Earle Dumler--woodwinds Dave Parlato--bass Jim Gordon--drums I recently acquired this little artifact, and it is fantastic! If you are a fan of Waka/Wazoo, do yourself a favor and grab it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Like what exactly? I do not understand the question. He was playing extended solos in a long instrumental passage which also included a soprano sax solo by Norma Jean Bell and a piano solo by Andre Lewis. The head that they played was "Chunga's Revenge", but they departed from that to a large extent. Was this from a bootleg? No. I was standing about 10 feet from the stage and remember it. In retrospect, that was dumb, as I probably sustained some permanent hearing loss. I have not found a bootleg of this show (Madison, Wisconsin, just before Thanksgiving, 1975). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 So much for evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregK Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 from www.zappa.com FRANK ZAPPA Imaginary Diseases $17.00 1. Oddients 1:13 2. Rollo 3:21 3. Been To Kansas City In A Minor 10:15 4. Farther O'Blivion 16:02 5. D.C. Boogie 13:27 6. Imaginary Diseases 9:45 7. Montreal 9:11 Produced by FZ All tracks mixed, edited & tweaked by FZ Vaultmeisterment & Compilation by Joe Travers, UMRK Mastered by Doug Sax & Robert Hadley Original 1972 masters recorded by Barry Keene Mix engineers: Kerry McNabb, Michael Braunstein, Davey Moire Executive Production, Art Direction & Text by GZ Liner notes by Steve Vai Photos by Bernard Gardner & others Design & Layout by Tracy Veal October 27-December 15, 1972 FZ--conductor, guitar, vocals Tony Duran--slide guitar Malcolm McNab--trumpet Gary Barone--trumpet, flugelhorn Tom Malone--tuba, saxes, piccolo trumpet, trumpet Bruce Fowler--trombone Glenn Ferris--trombone Earle Dumler--woodwinds Dave Parlato--bass Jim Gordon--drums I recently acquired this little artifact, and it is fantastic! If you are a fan of Waka/Wazoo, do yourself a favor and grab it now! Very brief discussion of this here: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...pic=13350&st=15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 So much for evidence. Didn't realize we were in a cross-examination mode. I guess I lost the trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 So much for evidence. Didn't realize we were in a cross-examination mode. I guess I lost the trial. If there's an example of Zappa playing a solo over a chord progression of more than two chords I wouldn't mind hearing it. Playing a melody along with the band doesn't count. Zappa wasn't a Giant Steps sort of player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 I'm arriving late to the brawl - one thing that always occurs to me when listening to Zappa's gutiar solos is that they tend to fall into scale/interval patterns - not the work of a true improviser - though I love his music just the same - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 I'm arriving late to the brawl - one thing that always occurs to me when listening to Zappa's gutiar solos is that they tend to fall into scale/interval patterns - not the work of a true improviser - though I love his music just the same - I wouldn't describe him as a Jazz musican, more of a Prog Rock musican. And dey ain't Jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzdog Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Who freaking CARES if he could play over changes or not. He wouldn't give a shit, why should any of us? The fact is that he could play over changes, ever heard of a little ditty called Sleep Dirt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Who freaking CARES if he could play over changes or not. He wouldn't give a shit, why should any of us? The fact is that he could play over changes, ever heard of a little ditty called Sleep Dirt? Good example. Any others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 A little late in my reply, but... I own a VHS copy of 200 Motels and also the live bootleg of the "premiere" concert with Zubin Mehta conducting the L.A. Philharmonic, plus FZ and a specially assembled group of Mothers. The fidelity is so-so, the jam upon "King Kong" (including some of the orchestra members) was unfortunately not recorded. There str also a few songs floating around that were destined for the film version of 200 Motels but didn't make it including "Interview" (heard on the boot Remington Electric Razor). One other song (the title is not clear) is in the movie, not on the soundtrack, on a live bootleg (Safe Muffinz) but not listed on the cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_esq Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Who says playing over some changes is the mark of a great improviser? That's like trying to convince yourself you still fit into that tuxedo from 20 years ago. So what? Get it? "So what?" FZ was a modal vamp soloist, exploring harmony through melody and tension through rhythm. His interplay with drummers is legendary, and although his vamps are very often two chords, that's because they are in the middle of goddam rock tunes. Through the 80's he developed the "non-vamp" which has the band laying down sustained, non-metric, polytonal arpeggiated figures, offering the solosit complete freedom from meter, tempo and other Western music constraints. Forget all that though. Zappa could play mean, unmitigated blues. And he had guys like George Duke in the band, who did play over changes like those in Inca Roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Zappa was a good blues player, that is true - but, as I said before, if you listen to his guitar solos they tend to be mechanical repetitions of scales - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_esq Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 if you listen to his guitar solos they tend to be mechanical repetitions of scales - I don't know about that. They certainly can be analyzed differently: http://www.zappateers.com/diapo.php?cat=17&expand=15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 if you listen to his guitar solos they tend to be mechanical repetitions of scales - I don't know about that. They certainly can be analyzed differently: http://www.zappateers.com/diapo.php?cat=17&expand=15 Rhythmically complex! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Zappa's gutiar solos....tend to fall into scale/interval patterns Certain Pat Martino solo's could be described in this very way. For me, in general it's not so much "what" is played, it's the "how" that really matters. Zappa's "how" is unique. To further illustrate my point have you ever critically listened to a bassline by Jerry Jemmott? On the surface there pretty simple. Try playing one, paying very close attention to getting the articulations (feel) just right. Not an easy thing. Jerry's "how" is unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_esq Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Zappa's "how" is unique. I believe that's what he called, "putting the eyebrows on it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md655321 Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Anyone checking this tour out: http://www.zappa.com/cheezoid/whatsnew/zpz/ Looks enticing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Anyone checking this tour out: http://www.zappa.com/cheezoid/whatsnew/zpz/ Looks enticing. I should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 The most recent edition of "Relix" magazine (the one with Zappa on the cover) has a decent article about the Zappa Plays Zappa Tour. Also, Gail talks about upcoming releases from the archive. She's whacked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Also, Gail talks about upcoming releases from the archive. She's whacked! Gail is good at talking. Execution suffers a bit, but talking is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 June 14, 2006 Music Review Zappa Plays Zappa: Best Band He Never Heard in His Life By NATE CHINEN, NY Times The bad news is that the band featured in Zappa Plays Zappa, the sprawling tribute that touched down at the Beacon Theater on Monday night, was upstaged by an opening act. The good news is that the opening act was Frank Zappa. No, he didn't materialize. But as the house lights darkened for some rarely seen video of Zappa and the Mothers of Invention at the Roxy in 1973, the effect was more than a little séancelike. There he was, a study in lanky gravity, deadpanning about dental floss on "Montana" and developing a corkscrew guitar solo on "Dupree's Paradise." The video ran longer than a half-hour, long enough for the audience to feel transported. The guitarist Dweezil Zappa, Frank Zappa's son, knew exactly what he was doing when he arranged for this overture. Mr. Zappa has described his touring production as more than the first family-sanctioned salute to his father, who died in 1993. It's intended as an argument for Frank Zappa's legitimacy as a composer and as an outreach to a new generation of listeners. On Monday it was all those things, to varying degrees. (The outreach was the least successful effort; most of the crowd looked old enough to have been at that Roxy show.) Mr. Zappa led a sharp assemblage of musicians in a program complete with harrowing intricacies, inscrutable grandiosities and several of his father's alumni as featured guests. Chief among them was the saxophonist and flutist Napoleon Murphy Brock, who handled lead vocals for most of the night. Mr. Brock sounded comfortable even with the music's most angular intervals. And he was deliciously goofy and sardonic, often bounding or whirling about the stage. Those energies helped compensate for Mr. Zappa's demeanor, which was serious, even studious, in tone. His lone attempt at conducting doubled as a dose of audience participation and underscored his father's superior authority in both areas. But Mr. Zappa's guitar playing was duly impressive — he imbued "Inca Roads" with the proper combination of spacey atmosphere and feverish technique — and his careful organization of the concert was evident. Moreover, his egoless approach cleared a space for Mr. Brock and the other guests, the drummer Terry Bozzio and the guitarist Steve Vai. Mr. Bozzio's natural showpiece was "Black Page," a drum feature originally composed with him in mind, and he handled its notorious convolutions — what Frank Zappa once called its "statistical density" — with power and flair. Mr. Vai was equally gripping, and more musical, on a medley of "Montana," a bucolic "Village of the Sun" and a tricky "Echidna's Arf (Of You)." But again, the biggest guest was Frank Zappa himself, who reappeared onscreen more than three hours into the concert. This time he played a guitar solo on "Chunga's Revenge," and his son's musical coterie supported him, so to speak, with unobtrusive passion. The tour runs through June 24. A list of dates can be found at zappa.com/zpz/tourdates.html. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 But as the house lights darkened for some rarely seen video of Zappa and the Mothers of Invention at the Roxy in 1973, the effect was more than a little séancelike. This is the long-promised Roxy DVD material, I guess. Gail keeps complaining about commercial challenges of making new FZ material available, but if ZFT had the DVD available during the concerts, they would sell like hot cakes with no overhead costs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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