*** Frank Zappa ***

[StarThrower]

It's OK, but I have to really want to listen to it. I much prefer hearing him play guitar to programming a machine.

I even prefer the version of G-spot Tornado that was performed by Ensemble Modern.

I would never describe the compositions on Jazz From Hell as weak. Pieces like Night School, and Beltway Bandits are beautiful to my ears. And the guitar piece, St. Etienne is probably one of the finest recorded solos from the 80s that I've heard. This performance was filmed, and parts of it are on the Video From Hell VHS release.

[Scott Dolan]

Well, I also believe that FZ's solos from the '88 tour are among his least interesting. I mean, they are cute, but less diverse and adventurous, and more likely to rely on the same licks and hooks than his older ones. Listen to SUNPYG "Inca Roads" solos, any of the four, and to the "Inca Roads" solo from "The Best Band..." back-to-back for comparison. The later version is sedate and boring, IMO.

Actually, Zappa himself alluded in the Real Frank Zappa Book that his guitar playing in '88 was not his best. I find that his solos became better by the end of the tour (the one from "Outside Now" from his last '88 concert in Genoa, heard on "Broadway the Hard Way" is fantastic... "After Dinner Smoker" off "Trance-Fusion" from the same concert is also excellent), it's a shame the tour did not continue.

"Guitar" album has a much better flow in the LP configuration, which is 13 tracks shorter. The sequencing is excellent, making the overall listening experience much more pleasurable. While I like SUNPYG more as an album, "Guitar" has some of my favorite FZ solos. And I just love his '84 guitar sound (even if I hate the overall sound of the '84 band.. but then again, Scott Thunes is excellent...).

As for the '80s FZ, there is a lot of dross there, for sure. I just hate YAWYI, and most of "Them or US". And don't even mention "Thing-Fish". However, I consider "Jazz from Hell" to be among FZ's very best. To each his own, indeed.

Thing-Fish has its moments, mostly due to Ike Willis himself. I don't love it, or hate it.

You Are What You Is was my first Zappa album, so that may be why it holds a special place in my heart. JCB belting out Harder Than Your Husband remains one of my faves in the Zappa universe.

I also share your overall distaste with the sound of the '84 band. Too much synth, and Wackerman's electronic drums. That said, my favorite front line is White/Zappa/Willis. And his solos from that tour are fantastic. The one from Advanced Romance (YCTOSA Vol. 3) is one of his very best, IMO.

And once again, I think Fire And Chains, Heavy Duty Judy, and the solos from Outside Now, Hot Plate Heaven At The Green Hotel, and Cruisin' For Burgers from the '88 tour are among his best. Not that every solo he played from that tour was better than the 19xx tour.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Scott Dolan

[StarThrower]

As for the '80s FZ, there is a lot of dross there, for sure. I just hate YAWYI, and most of "Them or US". And don't even mention "Thing-Fish".

To my ears, You Are What You Is features a brilliantly sequenced collection of very catchy and challenging pop/rock tunes. And FZ's guitar playing was at it's stylistic and technical zenith before he switched gears and adopted the custom strat w/ locking tremolo bar. His playing on Sinister III is pretty astounding.

Them Or Us is a mixed bag, but I like it for the instrumentals and extended guitar solos. I always loved his doo-wop covers, so The Closer You Are is a favorite.

Both of these albums feature fantastic vocal performances. I never did buy a copy of Thing Fish.

[Scott Dolan]

The Closer You Are is one of his most beautiful songs. Even my wife likes it, and she hates everything Zappa.

Sinister Footwear is good, but it would have been nice to hear more Zappa and a little less Vai on the album.

And without any perceptible provocation I suddenly have the urge to hear his tune ending solo from Come From Nowhere...

[StarThrower]

I was surprised the '88 band didn't perform Marqueson's Chicken from Them Or Us. The head of the tune is brilliant, with some tricky guitar lines that Mike Keneally could have played. And then it modulates to a swinging groove for the solo section, which would have sounded great with the horns.

[Д.Д.]

I was surprised the '88 band didn't perform Marqueson's Chicken from Them Or Us. The head of the tune is brilliant, with some tricky guitar lines that Mike Keneally could have played. And then it modulates to a swinging groove for the solo section, which would have sounded great with the horns.

They did, it just was not released officially.

[Д.Д.]

"The Closer You Are" is great, but it does not provide any new inside compared to the original by Earl Lewis & the Channels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsiN4vXspbM

Edited March 17, 2013 by Д.Д.

[StarThrower]

^^^^

Thanks! Maybe it was never performed to FZ's satisfaction?

[Scott Dolan]

I take it most of the folks commenting in this thread are musicians?

[StarThrower]

^^^^

I'm a former hack guitar player and drummer. I could never dream of playing high level stuff like Zappa.

[Д.Д.]

I take it most of the folks commenting in this thread are musicians?

I am not.

[GregK]

Zappa's synclavier music is definitely not "throwaway", as someone above put it. Civilization Phase 3 has some of most interesting compositions, a lot of which he wouldn't have even tried with real musicians.

I really like Trance-Fusion. Most of it is from the '88 tour, which featured some of this best guitar tone; the soloing sounds great, even when at times it isn't particularly interesting. I'd say his soloing from '88 was his best since the late 70s.

[Noj]

Non-musician here. Zappa is much more miss than hit for me. I was gifted a bunch of his albums (Guitar, Make A Jazz Noise Here, Weasels Ripped My Flesh, 200 Motels, Hot Rats, maybe more that I can't remember). Some songs I really like, most I don't feel.

In interviews I've watched on youtube Zappa strikes me as a brilliant yet very bristly, grumpy, quick-to-judge character. It's not an excuse for his being a racist jerk to Chuck and his friends. It just seems like he's the sort of character who would have been an asshole to anyone if he was in the wrong mood. While disappointing, I'm sure even Chuck would grudgingly agree one incident doesn't discount everything Frank Zappa had to say or all the music he created.

[StarThrower]

Why get into assumptions about the character of a man who's been dead for 20 years, and that you didn't know? During his lifetime Zappa was very approachable to his fans, and as far as doing interviews, he was cordial, patient, and polite most of the time.

And what human being can claim to never have been an asshole to someone on occasion?

[Noj]

Yeah, you're right starthrower. I know I've been one plenty of times, and I regret them all. Nobody's perfect.

[Д.Д.]

Zappa could be extremely arrogant and belligerent, particularly to passing acquaintances. I think this was an element of the public image that he cultivated. At the same time, people who knew and worked with him for a long time almost invariably seem to be in awe with him - as musician, but also as a person.

[StarThrower]

Do you have some personal experiences to relate regarding this statement? I don't buy the cultivation of an arrogant and belligerent public persona. As a matter of fact, one of my best friends was approached by Zappa during the intermission of a Mothers show back in 1968. Rather than retreat to the dressing room, FZ wanted to mingle with the audience and talk to people. Of course this became more difficult after he became a household name. And he obviously was more guarded after being assaulted and seriously injured by a fan in 1971.

[Д.Д.]

Do you have some personal experiences to relate regarding this statement? I don't buy the cultivation of an arrogant and belligerent public persona. As a matter of fact, one of my best friends was approached by Zappa during the intermission of a Mothers show back in 1968. Rather than retreat to the dressing room, FZ wanted to mingle with the audience and talk to people. Of course this became more difficult after he became a household name. And he obviously was more guarded after being assaulted and seriously injured by a fan in 1971.

I don't, I first learned about Zappa after he was already dead. But I have read a lot about him. There are dozes of interviews where he is obnoxious and cranky (particularly during the PRC saga), and the things he says are obvious posing. He most definitely cultivated a certain image of himself that may have been just a facet of his true personality (which I tend to think was much kinder and warmer). Of course, I used the word "belligerent" not in the direct meaning - Mingus he was not.

Regarding FZ's interaction with his fans, there are some great stories, e.g. him - after playing two sets - agreeing to pay a visit to a young Swedish fan somewhere in the outskirts of Stockholm, then spending the night discussing politics with his parents, and traveling further the next day.

[StarThrower]

Speaking of kinder and warmer, that extremely late interview where he was too weak to even sit up is very moving. He looks like an Indian guru with the flowing hair and heavy beard, and he speaks so warmly about his friend Nicolas Slonimsky. It's up on YouTube.

Anyway, I don't want to get too carried away about his personal traits. All I know is that he turned me onto a lot of great music and artists because he had good taste. And there is a warmth and optimism at the core of his music, even though he could be cynical and negative at times.

[mjzee]

I'm not a musician. Was into Zappa from an early age. My first album was Absolutely Free when I was 13 or 14, and saw the Mothers at the Fillmore when I was 15. Bought every album through the mid to late '70's, but noticed a definite dropoff in quality around '76. Really disliked Sheik Yerbouti and tuned out then; got back into him around Drowning Witch, then cut the cord after Them Or Us. Some of this may just be attributable to maturity: Zappa opened the doors to other musicians, and he then paled in comparison. But I definitely saw more flaws in him as time went on.

He always did give great interviews, but he had a lot invested in them: he once pointed out that he didn't have a lot of money to put towards promotion, so his avenue to "get the word out" was through interviews. As for his personality, the picture given in the David Walley book is a complicated one.

[Д.Д.]

This is an old and tendentious book. I understand that Alan Clayson is working on an FZ bio at the moment, could be interesting.

[Scott Dolan]

The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play from Ben Watson might be the most fun I've ever had reading the written word. As quirky, thought-provoking, and WTF?!-inducing as Frank himself.

I personally dug Frank's honesty and humor. I didn't find his personality reprehensible in the slightest.

Probably because it's far too similar to my own.

[StarThrower]

Well he was human, so flaws come with the territory. But he was also one of the most fearless, tireless, and fascinating artists of the era. I can't think of too many other artists who had as much talent, skill, and knowledge as Zappa.

[Scott Dolan]

And his PMRC hearing was classic!

[Carl Baugher]

Frank was gracious the one time I met him. I also had the pleasure to spend some time with his son Dweezil while working on liner notes for the "Halloween" DVD-A and I can tell you that Dweezil is a modest, unassuming and genuinely nice man. And a virtuoso guitarist, of course. Frank Zappa's music was completely unique and indelible. Don't imagine the world will ever see anyone much like him!