2 year olds

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Jim, first, I have to say, you gave me a great belly laugh. I haven't laughed this hard since my Dad died. Thanks so much. Laughter is the music of the soul.

As for child rearing, I'm no expert, but I think my girls are coming out OK. One thing I would recommend is to continue to let her know who is "the boss". When our girls were very young, we saw several of our friends let their kids rule their lives. These kids would "demand" something and Mom &/or Dad would scramble to comply, regardless of how their child was acting at the time. Joanne & I would laugh. Our girls never got anything if they disobeyed or were cranky. Whenever these parents saw us deny stuff to our girls, they'd say stuff like, "You're so strict". Of course, at the end of many of our visits, a usual comment going out the door was, "Your children are so well behaved. How do you do it?"

Every child is different. One thing that worked well with our first was holding a favorite toy "hostage". She must have a favorite something-or-other. This object can be used as leverage. If she does something you distinctly told her not to do, the object gets put away while she sits away from it.

We used to call it "time out", but in reality, it was somewhere where she could occupy herself away from her favorite toy. You don't want to try the corner. That only works in the movies. Tried a corner once and it resulted in a meltdown. Even if it isn't a corner, she might scream and cry (and it will break your heart), but in the end, she might understand that what she did denied her that special, favorite object and she might think twice before she rebels again. Of course, she might not care less and do it again anyway.

For us, this "time out" only worked until they were about 4 or so. Then we had to come up with something else. Bribery works well after 4. Ice cream was the best bribe, but chocolate worked in a pinch. Unfortunately, ice cream & chocolate contain "brat fuel", also known in layman's term as "sugar". Our oldest got progressively nastier with the more sugar she ingested. We experimented with lowered amounts of sugar with pretty good success from ages 6 to about 8. BTW, milk has lactose, which is a sugar so beware.

I second every comment about fixing the fridge. Don't pretty-up anything until your kids are all grown. Don't buy anything fancy either. This includes floors, windows, tables, chairs... anything used on a daily basis. It's almost a sure bet that something will happen to it. Just get used to having beat up furniture and appliances until your kids are fully grown. You might even laugh at some stuff later. Heck, I can still see my name scratched into a dresser at my parents' house.

Another great thing is having your child around other kids their age. Sometimes, even very young children can spot a "brat" and learn from their actions. My wife did in-home day care. She watched some real screamers. Even my girls used to complain about these screamers. They would even recognize when they were acting like that other child. Kids learn fast.

The poop thing really cracks me up. Hey, at least your daughter hasn't decided that her poop makes good finger paint. Try cleaning that up some time!!

Later,

Kevin - Dad of Amanda (17) and Melissa (14)

[Jim Alfredson]

Kevin, thanks for the advice. Sounds like you've done a good job. We're "strict" with Zora as well (people tell us that all the time) and she's starting to rebel. Like Sangry said, I guess I have to accept that we're no longer just caregivers now, but need to start directing her the best way we can.

As far as the poop thing, the funniest part is after she does it, she comes over to me and says, "Uh oh, dada... poop on the floor!" And I go in there and I can't find it because she's covered it up with a basket of some kind.

[JSngry]

As far as the poop thing, the funniest part is after she does it, she comes over to me and says, "Uh oh, dada... poop on the floor!" And I go in there and I can't find it because she's covered it up with a basket of some kind.

Sounds like she's got a career as an Evil Easter Bunny ahead of her.

[Chuck Nessa]

The basket thing always works for me.

[JSngry]

Seriously, have you thought about having her clean it up? Not in a mean, vindictive way, but in a "oh my, somebody needs to clean this up. I think it's yours, uh, you wanna get it?" kinda way that leaves little room for interpretation.

Cause and effect - one of the life lessons too often avoided these days...

[Jazz Kat]

Time to dedicate Pumpkin Pie to someone else.

I'm glad I was never this bad.

[JSngry]

You mean you weren't spraying Ready Whip all over the house in an attempt to get that Herb Albert vibe going?

[JSngry]

Time to dedicate Pumpkin Pie to someone else.

That's wrong, Dude. Love for your kids should be unconditional.

The title might take ona new meaning, though, if Zora's eaten a lot of carrots...

[Joe G]

You mean you weren't spraying Ready Whip all over the house in an attempt to get that Herb Albert vibe going?

[PHILLYQ]

Jim,

Your dear daughter is acting like a two-year old! As far as the poop on the floor, she's getting there, it sometimes takes awhile before the child gets the hang of 'sit on potty, THEN do your thing'. I think as long as you don't make a big deal about it this phase will pass.

The terrible twos can drive you wacko, but she's testing her limits. Just remember that when she's about 4-5 she will proudly tell everyone that you are HER daddy.

[Guy Berger]

Am I the only one taking notes?

Guy

[Chalupa]

No.

[Jazzmoose]

Jim, I once had a wiser and older man tell me when my 4 kids were young : "Bigger children, bigger problems".

Enjoy them when they are at this stage and when think you're the whole world.

Amen. Eventually they realize that you're as stupid as the next clown and it's all over...

[Jim Alfredson]

I'm not too concerned about the poop on the floor. It hasn't been going on very long. I do not get mad at her about it. I just try to explain to her that poop belongs in the potty and hopefully one of these days it'll click. We even got her this Elmo doll that "drinks" from a bottle and then has to pee (he talks) and you sit him on this potty and he goes and everything is right with the world. She still doesn't get it.

I'm more concerned about the misbehavior and I'm wondering how much of it is actually premeditated and how much is just her being a curious two year old. She's too young to be doing things because she's upset with us, right? When she scratched the fridge right after I let her off the naughty step, that was coincidence, right?

If not, this is going to get ugly!

Of course I still love her more than anything, but today was just especially hard. Again, it didn't help that I was exhausted.

[Tom Storer]

I'm more concerned about the misbehavior and I'm wondering how much of it is actually premeditated and how much is just her being a curious two year old. She's too young to be doing things because she's upset with us, right? When she scratched the fridge right after I let her off the naughty step, that was coincidence, right?

It's not a question of careful premeditation--the kind of behavior you're talking about is impulsive. Two-year-olds are curious and exploratory and enjoying their power to do things in the world and see the effects, and they're also too young to control their impulses very well. You've got your toy, there's the window screen, you suddenly have a strong desire to see how hard you can poke it and what might happen... and pow, you do it. You're not yet at the stage where you can foresee what's about to happen, weigh it against previous injunctions, even if they were only thirty seconds ago, and make decisions about what is best. It's just like... wow... I wanna... (crash rip smash scratch) hey! that was fun! Uh-oh, Daddy's upset!

Now is the time to start discovering the deep wells of patience you never knew you had!

[BERIGAN]

....

But we haven't used any of those "cupboard locks" or "child proof doorknobs", etc. We just tell her not to open or get into certain things and so far she's been good. We had a problem for quite some time of her playing with the dirt in our plants, but she's stopped doing that finally.......

.

Jim, wasn't quite sure, but I hope all those dangerous cleaners you have around the house are up very high, and not under the sink??? I would NOT trust a 2 year old to understand how deadly those products could be , no matter how smart she is.

Never underestimate what a 2 year old can do. When I was that age, I used to try and get out of the apartment we lived in. So my Dad put a lock up about 5 feet up on the door. So, one morning, I pushed a chair up to the door, got on it, unlocked the door, and left to explore the neighborhood! Fortunately a neighbor spotted me not too far from home.

Oh, and to get me to wearing diapers, my parents told me that Goldilocks always used the potty, and for some unknown reason that worked. Perhaps I didn't want some little girl to be better than me, plus I was 12 at the time....

Kevin's advice sounds pretty darn good about taking a favorite toy away when she is bad. Of course if all else fails, there is always spanking!

Edited September 29, 2006 by BERIGAN

[Tom Storer]

She's too young to be doing things because she's upset with us, right? When she scratched the fridge right after I let her off the naughty step, that was coincidence, right?

And just in case that was a serious question--of course she's not too young to be doing things because she's upset with you! All actions have consequences, right? You piss her off by putting her on the naughty step, she's got motive. Give her the means and the opportunity and you have a case.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I hope all those dangerous cleaners you have around the house are up very high, and not under the sink??? I would NOT trust a 2 year old to understand how deadly those products could be, no matter how smart she is.

Never underestimate what a 2 year old can do.

I have to agree rather strongly here. You've already seen that Nora is not listening to you and rebelling a bit. She might decide those pretty bottles under the sink look good enough to drink, no matter how much you've warned her. Every time I read those accidental poisoning stories in the news, I cringe, wondering how I would feel if it were my child. Would I ever be able to forgive myself?

I have very little recollection of my toddler days. I don't know many people who do. But one thing I vividly recall is the time I decided to see what would happen if I stuck tweezers into the wall outlet. Sparks flew, and I was shot across the room into a closet door. Got a nasty bump and blistered fingers and I was lucky that was all I got. I bet my parents wished they had these wall covers that we have today.

My Dad didn't change that wall outlet for years. He left it. All burnt and melted. Every kid who came in the house got a little lecture about what happens when you stick something in a wall socket. I don'y know of one childhood friend who ever tried what I did.

Later,

Kevin

[andybleaden]

yup yup

Had them and they are now 8 and 12 and still testin me out in new and different ways and come home with attitude 'issues' and yes I am still the meanest /strictist man on earth but yes I do (like Kevin) get the 'you children are so well behaved.

The potty stuff will seem to last months ( it will be probably be days or weeks), the temper stuff you can manage with consequence type treatment....as suggested further up.

The issue is about control...usually them finding how they can control you and you finding how much you need to control them.

As for nice things...forget em....hide em, store em away.....we had nothing vaguely 'nice' under four foot for years.......still got my speaker covers on 'just in case' they get fingers inserted into woofers etc

Have fun.

Remember the real embarassing things ....they are sooooooooooo nice to remind them about later....ie you used to stamp your feet like that with potty training....its lovely the venom that comes into their eyes.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

As far as the poop thing, the funniest part is after she does it, she comes over to me and says, "Uh oh, dada... poop on the floor!" And I go in there and I can't find it because she's covered it up with a basket of some kind.

Sounds like she's got a career as an Evil Easter Bunny ahead of her.

A couple of years ago, my younger grandson, who's now four, got extremely pissed off with my daughter, because she wouldn't let him sleep in their bed. Yelled, played up, the lot, but eventually accepted that he'd have to sleep in his own bed, as usual. Some time later that evening, water started coming through the lounge ceiling. The little bugger had only got up, put the plug in the bathroom basin, turned on the tap, then gone back to bed!

He's never done it again!

A lot of this behaviour derives from soft drinks.

MG

[7/4]

Oh, and to get me to wearing diapers, my parents told me that Goldilocks always used the potty, and for some unknown reason that worked. Perhaps I didn't want some little girl to be better than me, plus I was 12 at the time....

[JSngry]

You've already seen that Nora is not listening to you and rebelling a bit.

Jim is really Ravi Shankar?

[slide_advantage_redoux]

What Tom said is very important. At that age, children are very impulsive. They can't help what they are doing in a big way. If they weren't being destructive and unpredictable, then you would have real cause for worry!

My daughter is 16 now, and I am going through an entirely new set of issues and challenges. But now the stakes are much higher. She lives with my ex wife, who takes the brunt of resentment for being the one that keeps her from always getting what she wants. She is right in the middle of that age when parents are morons, and she and her peers know it all. Grrrr. I remember what a prick I was when I was that age, especially with my dad.

Back to the terrible twos. I compare little kids to young animals. They too are very impulsive and can be destructive, although they don't neccasarily have that intention. It just comes with the territory (age). We just took in a new kitten who is now 8 weeks old. This guy is a royal pain in the ass. He is cute and fun most of the time, but he is really testing my patience (and that of the older cats too!). I will be sitting here at the pc typing or checking email and he keeps attacking my hands. No matter how many times I say "NO" or blow air in his face or remove him from the desk, he just doesn't get it. He is drivem by his impulse.I know he will get past it (like I hope he will get past the need to once in ashile use the floor instead of his litter basket (which he clearly knows how to use) Yet another Grrrr.

Hang on for dear life. Hide the dangerous chemicals and make sure your instrunents and valuable LPs are beyond the reach!

Love will carry you through it...that and some valium too perhaps! (for you not her)

Edited September 29, 2006 by slide_advantage_redoux

[JSngry]

Seriously, consider this - Pretend that you're a 2 yr old kid. All your live you've been loved and told that you're special (all of which is true). But you've always been dependent, and there's always been boundaries that you can't cross just becuase you don't have the chops to cross them. Well, now you do. You don't yet understand why you shouldn't do something, simply because you have no point of reference. Fuck up the furniture? Sure, why not? You don't know why that's bad, you just know that it's something that you can do all by yourself. And that first rush of freedom & independence after having spent literally an entire lifetime not just not being able to do it, but not even knowing that you can do it, hey, that's gotta be a huge freakin' rush. As ar as you can tell, based on your life experience, there's nothing you can't or shouldn't do. After all, you're loved and you're special, and dammit, you're going to maximize every possible opportunity to do something, anything, just because you finally can.

It's a pattern that we all repeat throughout our life, whether it be our first bike, our first car, our first appartment, our first house, our first good job, our first anything that frees us up more than we were before. And the sooner that we learn that with freedom comes responsibility, that actions have consequesnces, that cause and effect is not just a scientific concept but instead is a necessary survival skill, and that most importantly, discipline is rooted in a deep love & not angry revenge, the sooner we hopefully get on track to having as happy and fulfilling a life as is possible.

That's a huge part of what parenting is about. It's a tough gig, sometimes the gig from hell, but that is the gig. Just remember to do what you gotta do, to always do it out of love, and that no matter how immediate any situation may appear at the moment, you're actually planting seed that will inescapably gome to fruition later on.

Enjoy the gig!

[Kevin Bresnahan]

BTW, Jim, the only way I could get my youngest daughter to fall asleep at that age was to read her a bedtime a story and lay with her until she fell asleep. I would just tell my wife, "Come & wake me up in an hour if I crash".

Another thing to try if you find her up late playing with her toys is to let her stay up. She'll probably keel over from exhaustion eventually.

BTW, is she still taking an afternoon nap? She may be ready to stop. Try shortening her "nappy-time" and see how she takes it. She might be so tired that night, she'll fall asleep before you finish the bedtime story. Each of my daughters was very different with regards to napping. My oldest napped until she was almost 5. My youngest? I bet she stopped napping when she was less than 3. Of course, she also slept like a rock from 7:00 PM until 8:30 AM.

Later,

Kevin