MacArthur grants

[Randy Twizzle]

Yeah it took all of a few extra days for Colbert to become the a media darling, what terribly oppressive conditions..... Meanwhile he been the subject of fawning profiles on 60 minutes and fawning interviews with Charlie Rose et al. I happen to like him and think he was the best thing on the Daily Show, but let's be serious, Bush bashing is a cottage industry... and the basher will never want for media attention.

Ahem. When did Colbert appear on the Charlie Rose show? Rose's own site makes no mention of a Colbert appearance, and you can search for every guest who has ever appeared.

If we can't trust you to correctly remember a simple incident like someone appearing on a talk show, why should we trust your memory of larger trends?

Who the fuck is asking you to trust me? I'm not your goddamn spiritual advisor. I'm giving my opinion feel free to ignore it. The alleged Rose appearance was mentioned early in the thread.

[md655321]

Frankly I'm a bit shocked and amazed at the anti-Colbert sentiment by some of you. Dennis Miller with one ball missing? Wouldn't Dennis Miller actually need some balls in the first place for that to occur?

Sometimes Colbert goes for the easy jokes. But quite often he has the most intelligent and biting and funny satire on TV. By FAAAAAR.

[7/4]

Frankly I'm a bit shocked and amazed at the anti-Colbert sentiment by some of you. Dennis Miller with one ball missing? Wouldn't Dennis Miller actually need some balls in the first place for that to occur?

Sometimes Colbert goes for the easy jokes. But quite often he has the most intelligent and biting and funny satire on TV. By FAAAAAR.

Yep. I think he's funny, but I've only seen him a few times. The Zorn bit cracked me up, I've seen him (Zorn) around a bit in town, he opened a door for me once. I had my arms full.

Edited September 23, 2006 by 7/4

[BruceH]

I think Colbert is very funny, sometimes brilliant. I try not to miss his show. The Zorn bit was spot on.

Personally, Zorn's music makes ME want to put on a top hat and walking stick and trip the light fantastic also!

Edited September 25, 2006 by BruceH

[Big Wheel]

Yeah it took all of a few extra days for Colbert to become the a media darling, what terribly oppressive conditions..... Meanwhile he been the subject of fawning profiles on 60 minutes and fawning interviews with Charlie Rose et al. I happen to like him and think he was the best thing on the Daily Show, but let's be serious, Bush bashing is a cottage industry... and the basher will never want for media attention.

Ahem. When did Colbert appear on the Charlie Rose show? Rose's own site makes no mention of a Colbert appearance, and you can search for every guest who has ever appeared.

If we can't trust you to correctly remember a simple incident like someone appearing on a talk show, why should we trust your memory of larger trends?

Who the fuck is asking you to trust me? I'm not your goddamn spiritual advisor. I'm giving my opinion feel free to ignore it. The alleged Rose appearance was mentioned early in the thread.

Perhaps you should base your opinions on actual facts, and not some stuff one guy on a jazz bulletin board happens to misremember.

[7/4]

I think Colbert is very funny, sometimes brilliant. I try not to miss his show. The Zorn bit was spot on.

Personally, Zorn's music makes ME want to put on a top hat and talking stick and trip the light fantastic also!

[Randy Twizzle]

Yeah it took all of a few extra days for Colbert to become the a media darling, what terribly oppressive conditions..... Meanwhile he been the subject of fawning profiles on 60 minutes and fawning interviews with Charlie Rose et al. I happen to like him and think he was the best thing on the Daily Show, but let's be serious, Bush bashing is a cottage industry... and the basher will never want for media attention.

Ahem. When did Colbert appear on the Charlie Rose show? Rose's own site makes no mention of a Colbert appearance, and you can search for every guest who has ever appeared.

If we can't trust you to correctly remember a simple incident like someone appearing on a talk show, why should we trust your memory of larger trends?

Who the fuck is asking you to trust me? I'm not your goddamn spiritual advisor. I'm giving my opinion feel free to ignore it. The alleged Rose appearance was mentioned early in the thread.

Perhaps you should base your opinions on actual facts, and not some stuff one guy on a jazz bulletin board happens to misremember.

Sorry but I don't think the Rose mistake changes much of anything. My real mistake was daring to deviate from the accepted opinion of all you free thinkers. OK I'll make a mid-course correction: Colbert was a brave truth teller daring to confront the evil Bush at great personal risk to his career and possibly his life. In fact his picture is going up on my wall right next to Hugo Chavez' and that director of that Bush snuff film.

[Christiern]

I'm curious. How did John Zorn come to be a multi-millionaire?

He developed a method for bottling squeaks.

It's the old NYC tap water thing, redux.

[mailman]

John is very big in Japan...he may still live there part of the year for all I know...he's done commercials there and other things that have brought him lotsa yen. Also in Europe where he gets big fees for concerts. sometimes close to a 100,000 dollars. It adds up especially when you don't spend any of it.

I have nothing against John. I like his string quartets...heard the cadenza he wrote for the Ligeti violin concerto last year at Miller Theater, absolutely stunning!!! His 'Jazz' work, having heard Dolphy, Ayler, Ornette etal live back in the day, I don't need to hear his take on it today.

John has earned everything fairly and squarly. My only problem is that in his case, that is not what the MacArthur set out to be. It was for people in various disciplines who were, to use the Down Beat motto, 'People Deserving Wider Recognition' not people who have already 'made it'. But since he got it, good luck to him.

So what you are actually saying is that he a financialy successful musician but not that he is a multi-millionaire. No problem if he is but you didn't show that to be the case. Also, if you think John Zorn has wide recognition you are dreaming. Kenny G has wide recognition. John Zorn is pretty much an unknown.

[Larry Kart]

[so what you are actually saying is that he a financialy successful musician but not that he is a multi-millionaire.

Could be both.

[Van Basten II]

Can i just enjoy Regina Carter, John Zorn, and Colbert and say they can get all the money they are able to get. It's not like the money will come back to me, anyway.

[chris olivarez]

Can i just enjoy Regina Carter, John Zorn, and Colbert and say they can get all the money they are able to get. It's not like the money will come back to me, anyway.

What he said.

[Chuck Nessa]

Can i just enjoy Regina Carter, John Zorn, and Colbert and say they can get all the money they are able to get. It's not like the money will come back to me, anyway.

What he said.

Do you omit the ? too?

[Michael Weiss]

And of course, for the more adventurous jazz listener, his [take] on the Sonny Clark catalog [makes] a lot of sense.

It doesn't make any more sense to me, nor is it any more appealing, than the Dukes of Dixieland covering A Love Supreme. I'm not very good at articulating what I'm trying to say but you get the idea: Zorn's cynical parody of Sonny Clark music in the late 1980s was a pivotal recording for the jazz media's flaunting and celebration of their ignorance and total lack of understanding or appreciation of bebop or hardbop, more or less dooming any artists honestly and authentically working within that idiom to the bottom of the review stack.

Edited September 23, 2006 by Michael Weiss

[Chuck Nessa]

And of course, for the more adventurous jazz listener, his [take] on the Sonny Clark catalog [makes] a lot of sense.

It doesn't make any more sense to me, nor is it any more appealing, than the Dukes of Dixieland covering A Love Supreme. I'm not very good at articulating what I'm trying to say but you get the idea: Zorn's cynical parody of Sonny Clark music in the late 1980s was a pivotal recording for the jazz media's flaunting and celebration of their ignorance and total lack of understanding or appreciation of bebop or hardbop, more or less dooming any artists honestly and authentically working within that idiom to the bottom of the review stack.

Not sure it was a "cynical parody" and am curious about your charge of someone(s) moving those "authentically working within that idiom " to the bottom as a result. Were you counting on folks "sheepish enough" to follow this blindly? WTF?

"It's that man's fault Mommy!"

"Is this next tune a 'Sonny Clark groove' or a 'Hank Mobley groove'?"

Edited September 23, 2006 by Chuck Nessa

[Michael Weiss]

Zorn's SC recording was IMHO the epitome of bad taste. A "cynical parody" is exactly what it sounded like to me. And I love Cecil Taylor, Jimmy Lyons, Marshall Allen, etc. But I never heard them do a similar number on someone else's music like Zorn in this case. I love Archie Shepp playing Ellington. I can even appreciate, albeit in a very warped kinda way, Sun Ra playing Fletcher Henderson.

Maybe you misunderstood me Chuck – About my problem with the tastes of those in jazz journalism, I don't place the blame on John Zorn personally. With very few exceptions, most jazz critics writing today just don't appreciate or understand the kind of melodic invention in music like Sonny Clark's or Hank Mobley's. That said, you see Zorn's treatment of SC getting 5 stars, while those who can really play the shit out of those tunes AND put their own thing on it will go right over their heads.

Edited September 24, 2006 by Michael Weiss

[Larry Kart]

Michael -- Do mean the Sonny Clark Memorial Quartet album or News for Lulu or More News for Lulu (the latter two with George Lewis and Bill Frisell)? Or all three. Seems to me that the first album fits your description, the second does not, and the third is a good deal better than the second.

[Michael Weiss]

Michael -- Do mean the Sonny Clark Memorial Quartet album or News for Lulu or More News for Lulu (the latter two with George Lewis and Bill Frisell)? Or all three. Seems to me that the first album fits your description, the second does not, and the third is a good deal better than the second.

Only heard the first one - SCMQ. I'm glad to hear you liked the next two better.

[RDK]

Damn. I'm just curious (or sick) enough to want to hear The Dukes of Dixieland cover A Love Supreme. At least once.

[7/4]

quatro) count me in for Dixieland-does-"Meditations" anyway.

I'd like to hear that. Didn't Winton do a Dixieland Ornette recently? I would like to hear that someday.

[ejp626]

I should have posted in the jazz radio area, but it is too late now. The BBC had a show where Zorn's Moonchild was played live with Mike Patton, the former singer of Faith No More, vocalizing in "preverbal language." I certainly didn't like it. That's a matter of taste. I like some of Zorn's music, but not much. I like some of what comes out on Tzadik and am glad he has kept doing that.

What I found quite interesting was that the presenter -- Robert Sandall, who is a big fan of new music -- didn't hide the fact that he found it all pretty disappointing. He didn't just rip it up and say it was two seagulls making love, but had some cogent points about how Zorn had done this all better before. It's fairly refreshing to hear straight talk on the radio. (I know there are a lot of great jazz shows out there, but largely they are playing music that they really dig so aren't inclined to be critical.)

[alocispepraluger102]

give the grant to zorn for his awesome painkiller stuff.........

regina, for what she is ? certainly NOT for anything she's done.

Edited September 24, 2006 by alocispepraluger102

[Guy Berger]

and nobody's mentioned COlbert at the correspondents dinner, in which he took on Bush while the Prez was sitting right next to him - took some guts, as this is rarely (actually never) done at these events -

It did take guts, and was on target much of the time, but it wasn't that funny.

Guy

[RonF]

and nobody's mentioned COlbert at the correspondents dinner, in which he took on Bush while the Prez was sitting right next to him - took some guts, as this is rarely (actually never) done at these events -

It did take guts, and was on target much of the time, but it wasn't that funny.

Guy

[AllenLowe]

was funny to me -