connoisseur series500 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Posted April 1, 2005 Overall, Roach's BN dates are a mixed bag for me. I find "Down to Earth" and "Mo' Greens" to be excellent, "Good Move" average to above-average, and "Brown Sugar" to be below-average. I clearly do not prefer Joe Henderson in an organ setting. You've got to listen to "Brown Sugar" again, Al. I felt the same way you did initially, seeing it as an average date. Roach is so subtle that it starts to hit you with repeated listenings. Listen to how well Joe and Freddie work together on "All Night Long." "The Midnight Sun will never Set" is ethereally beautiful. Freddie's organ is like gossamer. Beautiful stuff! I haven't heard "Down to Earth," but I agree that "Mo Greens Please" is the best on Blue Note. That cd is good from start to finish. I would rate "Brown Sugar" as an easy four stars (out of 5). Didn't care for "Good Move" when I had it. I obviously need to listen to it again. I no longer have the cd. Quote
JSngry Posted April 1, 2005 Report Posted April 1, 2005 GOOD MOVE blooms with repeated and detailed listening, imo. Might be worth a reaccquiral. Quote
undergroundagent Posted April 1, 2005 Report Posted April 1, 2005 I'll stick to my assessment. I suppose I'd have to listen to this one again when I go through a Joe Henderson phase. Right now, Joe just isn't vibing for me. Quote
Man with the Golden Arm Posted April 4, 2005 Report Posted April 4, 2005 I see that Water is re-issuing 'Brown Sugar' later this year. Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted April 4, 2005 Report Posted April 4, 2005 I'll stick to my assessment. I suppose I'd have to listen to this one again when I go through a Joe Henderson phase. Right now, Joe just isn't vibing for me. ...and you're not in a Joe Henderson phase. No hope for you right now, Al. Just ordered "Down to Earth" from Hiroshi... Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 27, 2007 Report Posted May 27, 2007 Here's something I put up originally on AAJ (lead balloon). Freddie was one of the many great organists based in Newark, though he was born in the Bronx on 11 May 1931. After work on the road with Lou Donaldson, Cootie Williams and Chris Columbus, Freddie settled in Newark and had his own group there. In the early 1960s, he joined Ike Quebec’s band. Early recordings with Ike Quebec and Willis Jackson were followed by his own series of albums; six for Blue Note and three for Prestige. Freddie is a musician you just have to love. No other jazz musician wore his heart so evidently on his sleeve in his music. And that heart was located deeply in black culture. Calvin Newborn describes him as “almost as Afro-centric as Mingus”. His album titles tell you where he’s coming from all right. And if you don’t get it from the titles, he wrote most of his own sleeve notes, so there’s no excuse. Freddie was definitely his own man on organ. I can’t tell where he got his style from; certainly not Jimmy Smith or any of the great organists around Newark/Philadelphia. Rhoda Scott reckons he was ahead of his time. He didn’t make many records. Here’s his discography. IKE QUEBEC - HEAVY SOUL - BN 84093 (26/11/1961) IKE QUEBEC - IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SPRING - BN 84105 (9/12/1961) WILLIS JACKSON - THUNDERBIRD - PR 7232 (31/3/1962) TWO UNISSUED IKE QUEBEC SESSIONS FOR BN (25/5/1962 & 1/6/1962) FREDDIE ROACH - DOWN TO EARTH - BN 84113 (23/8/1962) FREDDIE ROACH - MO' GREENS PLEASE - BN 84128 (21/1&11/3/1963) FREDDIE ROACH - GOOD MOVE - BN 84158 (29/11 & 9/12/1963) FREDDIE ROACH - BROWN SUGAR - BN 84168 (19/3/1964) (duff session from day before) FREDDIE ROACH - ALL THAT'S GOOD - BN 84190 (16/10/1964) DONALD BYRD - I'M TRYIN' TO GET HOME - BN 84188 (17&18/12/1964) UNISSUED FREDDIE ROACH BN SESSION (16/9/1965) FREDDIE ROACH - THE SOUL BOOK - PR 7490 (13&28/6/1966) (enough unissued for another LP) FREDDIE ROACH - MOCHA MOTION - PR 7507 (5/1/1967) FREDDIE ROACH - MY PEOPLE (SOUL PEOPLE) - PR 7521 (22&29/6/1967) Rhoda Scott also remembers that Freddie was a playwright, writing pseudonymously. He is said to have incorporated a good deal of theatre into his music. He moved to California towards the end of his life, in 1980, it’s thought for reasons connected with the theatre. It's a pity that Pete Fallico has taken down his interesting articles; there was a good one on Freddie. MG Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 what excuse did michael cus-cuna give about this one? Freddie Roach Quartet Kahlil Rahman (vib) Freddie Roach (org) Eddie Wright (g) Clarence Johnston (d) Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, September 16, 1965 tk.4 Bread And Butter Blue Note rejected 1647 tk.5 Hi Heel Sneakers - 1648 tk.6 Avatar Blues - tk.10 Spring Is Here - tk.14 St. Thomas - 1649 tk.18 King Of The Road Quote
Soul Stream Posted May 28, 2007 Author Report Posted May 28, 2007 what excuse did michael cus-cuna give about this one? Freddie Roach Quartet Kahlil Rahman (vib) Freddie Roach (org) Eddie Wright (g) Clarence Johnston (d) Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, September 16, 1965 tk.4 Bread And Butter Blue Note rejected 1647 tk.5 Hi Heel Sneakers - 1648 tk.6 Avatar Blues - tk.10 Spring Is Here - tk.14 St. Thomas - 1649 tk.18 King Of The Road Oh Hell....! THAT HAS GOT TO COME OUT! I've never heard of this session....Wow... God, I'd love to hear that. Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 i know, hi heel sneakers and st thomas- this one HAS to be funky as fuck: whos going to ask michael cus cuna about this one- that hairy bastard can't stop keeping this stuff from us Quote
danasgoodstuff Posted May 29, 2007 Report Posted May 29, 2007 "Trailers for sale or rent/rooooms to let, fifty cents" Maybe if the brits do more of them weird themed antho's we'll get to hear at least some of it... Quote
clifford_thornton Posted May 29, 2007 Report Posted May 29, 2007 Who the hell is Khalil Rahman? Quote
Shawn Posted May 29, 2007 Report Posted May 29, 2007 Count me amongst the Roach disciples, I can't get enough of this cat! I first heard him on the Ike Quebec dates and at the time my initial reaction was "too roller rink". I had assumed that he played in that style all the time. (Don't get me wrong, I love his playing on those records now). Then I heard Mo Greens Please and realized I was quite wrong. I don't bother comparing one artist to another anymore, so I won't try to rate Roach amidst all the other organ players of the time. He just delivers this "oh so easy" soulful, bluesy quality that just CANNOT be faked, you're either born with it (Turrentine, Blue Mitchell, John Patton) or you ain't. No pretentions, no bullshit...just groove. I like all of his recordings (I even dig My People, Soul People). I'm not sure about being able to pick favorites, but I guess I'd lean towards either Mo Greens Please or All That's Good. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 29, 2007 Report Posted May 29, 2007 Who the hell is Khalil Rahman? Definitively, he is/was a vibes player who appeared on one unissued session by Freddie Roach and that's ALL the recording he ever did. MG Quote
jazzbo Posted May 29, 2007 Report Posted May 29, 2007 Count me amongst the Roach disciples, I can't get enough of this cat! I first heard him on the Ike Quebec dates and at the time my initial reaction was "too roller rink". I had assumed that he played in that style all the time. (Don't get me wrong, I love his playing on those records now). Then I heard Mo Greens Please and realized I was quite wrong. I don't bother comparing one artist to another anymore, so I won't try to rate Roach amidst all the other organ players of the time. He just delivers this "oh so easy" soulful, bluesy quality that just CANNOT be faked, you're either born with it (Turrentine, Blue Mitchell, John Patton) or you ain't. No pretentions, no bullshit...just groove. I like all of his recordings (I even dig My People, Soul People). I'm not sure about being able to pick favorites, but I guess I'd lean towards either Mo Greens Please or All That's Good. With you on all of this (as you know). Quote
Soul Stream Posted May 29, 2007 Author Report Posted May 29, 2007 Which brings us all back to this... Freddie Roach Quartet Kahlil Rahman (vib) Freddie Roach (org) Eddie Wright (g) Clarence Johnston (d) Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, September 16, 1965 tk.4 Bread And Butter Blue Note rejected 1647 tk.5 Hi Heel Sneakers - 1648 tk.6 Avatar Blues - tk.10 Spring Is Here - tk.14 St. Thomas - 1649 tk.18 King Of The Road Where in the heck is Kevin B. when you need a direct line to Michael Cuscuna.... Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 30, 2007 Report Posted May 30, 2007 how the fuck can ya'll (any of ya'll) not dig My People (Soul People)??!!?! i just wish it was longer & even weirder. album for album, Freddie might be the most interesting of all the '60s dudes bc he pushed it in individual ways (JOS made a lot of records in different settings but they seem forced even if the parts are OK; Freddie always seems orga(s)n(m)ic-- can you feel me* people? * edc, last of ozona, fla er... YES! (Though my favourite Freddie is "All that's good".) MG Quote
Soul Stream Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Posted May 30, 2007 (Though my favourite Freddie is "All that's good".) MG Now we're talking...that's a GREAT album that we/nobody talks about enough. (Not to mention one of Blue Note's greatest-funkiest album covers) Quote
NaturalSoul Posted September 5, 2007 Report Posted September 5, 2007 bump for all the Roach fans! pulled out 'All that's good'' last night and it hit me hard in a way it never did before, it's some nice shit! Also have a copy of 'Down to earth' on it's way to me via amazon marketplace. The only Freddie i don't have is 'Mo Greens Please' (damn i want it!) and 'Brown Sugar' Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted September 5, 2007 Report Posted September 5, 2007 bump for all the Roach fans! pulled out 'All that's good'' last night and it hit me hard in a way it never did before, it's some nice shit! Also have a copy of 'Down to earth' on it's way to me via amazon marketplace. The only Freddie i don't have is 'Mo Greens Please' (damn i want it!) and 'Brown Sugar' "Brown sugar" was released a couple of years ago on Water. Must still be around. MG Quote
NaturalSoul Posted September 5, 2007 Report Posted September 5, 2007 bump for all the Roach fans! pulled out 'All that's good'' last night and it hit me hard in a way it never did before, it's some nice shit! Also have a copy of 'Down to earth' on it's way to me via amazon marketplace. The only Freddie i don't have is 'Mo Greens Please' (damn i want it!) and 'Brown Sugar' "Brown sugar" was released a couple of years ago on Water. Must still be around. MG It's only 12.85 over at newbury comics, but it's on backorder. I also see it's available at cduniverse for 14.99. Seems to be really backordered on amazon (ships in 4-6 weeks) How does Joe Henderson play on it? Quote
Shawn Posted September 6, 2007 Report Posted September 6, 2007 How does Joe Henderson play on it? Personally, I like the album but don't believe Henderson (who I adore by the way) is as good of a fit as many other players would have been. Nothing wrong with how he plays on it, he just doesn't sound especially inspired by the surroundings. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted September 6, 2007 Report Posted September 6, 2007 I think Joe's playing on "The Right time", "All night long" and "The midnight sun will never set" is some of the best I've ever heard him do. He just feels so into it. MG Quote
NaturalSoul Posted September 9, 2007 Report Posted September 9, 2007 Went to buy 'Brown sugar' from CDuniverse and found out it's been backordered since July 11th. Damnit! So now it appears to be backordered everywhere i've looked. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted September 9, 2007 Report Posted September 9, 2007 how did F.R. die? He went to California. No doubt all that West Coast Jazz killed him Buddy Terry told Pete Fallico that the last time he saw Freddie was in 1980, not long before he died. After they met, Freddie went out to California. MG Quote
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.