Jazzdog Posted August 13, 2003 Report Posted August 13, 2003 I just like the cover for Brown Sugar...I don't know why, it's just a cool cover!! Quote
Soul Stream Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Posted August 14, 2003 "Two Different Worlds" is a world unto itself, perhaps the epitome of all that was organ-room jazz. Knocks you out, makes you dance, makes you holler, makes you head for the bar as soon as the last note's over and the band takes a break, full of the spunk to hit on that lady who you've been eyeing (and vice versa). All in under 4 minutes. Yeah, Freddie Roach UNDERSTOOD. Yeah, Freddie Roach was really a unique player who had a lot to say (musically and verbally!). He's forgetten quite a bit, even by me. Hey man, why should I listen to Freddie when Larry Young's so much more IMPORTANT! Roach suffered the same fate that Patton did to a degree. Not 'important' enough, or "real jazz" enough for the jazz folk. They were too earthy. Today, they're just too bluesy for the younger generation. Blues is too old-timey these days. Larry Young's fourths or Patterson's bebop or Smith's harmonic conceptions are advanced enough for a young keyboardist or jazz fan to admire. But Roach playing "Googa Mooga" or Patton playing "Silver Meter" just isn't cutting it for most people today ('cept us ). Quote
Jim Alfredson Posted August 14, 2003 Report Posted August 14, 2003 That's because all these young motherfuckers don't know, man.... they don't know!!! Why do you think Patton called it "Understanding"? Dig? Quote
Soul Stream Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Posted August 14, 2003 (edited) That's because all these young motherfuckers don't know, man.... they don't know!!! Why do you think Patton called it "Understanding"? Dig? Amen, my brother! ...P.S...had an older black couple out at my gig last night. In the sea of white faces, they were obviously digging when nobody else was. After the set, the guy came up...hey man, I DIG what you're doing! Turns out he was an organ drummer from up Ft. Worth way...he sat in and PLAYED the way a drummer SHOULD play behind an organ! He UNDERSTOOD the way Big John and Freddie and that generation understood jazz and blues...all together, no boundaries. I miss that quality in people. That love of the blues in a jazz context, and the ability to love it, understand it, and ENJOY it! Edited August 14, 2003 by Soul Stream Quote
Jim Alfredson Posted August 14, 2003 Report Posted August 14, 2003 You know, this leads me to another topic: When I first heard Scone's new record, I liked it but thought it was sort of elementary. But the more I listen to it, the more I realize that he has the understanding. There are some deep subcurrents running through that date that don't grab you at first. Very very hip. It's easy to latch onto the pyrotechnics (ie, Joey D) and forget about the subtleties that make things interesting for 40+ years (ie, Freddie, Patton, McGriff, etc...) Quote
Jim Alfredson Posted August 14, 2003 Report Posted August 14, 2003 For instance (now you got me on a roll), I played this CD I found in my car that I had slapped together for a road trip. I played it during the breaks at my R&B band's gig on Saturday night. It's loaded with various mp3s off my computer. The first 20 minutes were dance tunes and funky stuff. That lasted for the first break. Second break starts out with some Galactic. Cool. And then this Jimmy McGriff tune comes on... "City Lights", recorded on the record of the same name in 1983 I think. On the cover Jimmy is wearing this fuckin' atrocious all pink jumpsuit! Anyway, it's just a shuffle in G, but man that shit grooves so hard... even the crowd couldn't resists. The floor filled up with five or six couples dancing to that shit!!!!!!! It was bad! Jimmy doesn't do anything spectacular on the cut, he just grooves his ass off. A lost art. Quote
Soul Stream Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Posted August 14, 2003 (edited) You know, this leads me to another topic: When I first heard Scone's new record, I liked it but thought it was sort of elementary. But the more I listen to it, the more I realize that he has the understanding. There are some deep subcurrents running through that date that don't grab you at first. Very very hip. It's easy to latch onto the pyrotechnics (ie, Joey D) and forget about the subtleties that make things interesting for 40+ years (ie, Freddie, Patton, McGriff, etc...) Scone is an interesting player. He's not afraid to be simplistic. On the other end of the spectrum, he sent me an unreleased session he played on that was a tribute to Joe Henderson. They do Inner Urge on it, ect....on that, Adam plays out of a Larry Young bag. Plus, I've heard him do "Ornithology" with Lou Donaldson...he just got off the road doing an organ trio with Bob Beldon...the Sugarman 3's been working hard...he's got a nice grasp of all these things. In the end, he's just like all of us. Confused, and trying to figure out what he wants to say! What he really wants to do is something totally different he says, wierd, non-jazz stuff...more of a connect with young people. Edited August 14, 2003 by Soul Stream Quote
JSngry Posted August 14, 2003 Report Posted August 14, 2003 After the set, the guy came up...hey man, I DIG what you're doing! Turns out he was an organ drummer from up Ft. Worth way...he sat in and PLAYED the way a drummer SHOULD play behind an organ! Was that Bob Stewart by any chance? Quote
Soul Stream Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Posted August 14, 2003 (edited) After the set, the guy came up...hey man, I DIG what you're doing! Turns out he was an organ drummer from up Ft. Worth way...he sat in and PLAYED the way a drummer SHOULD play behind an organ! Was that Bob Stewart by any chance? Yes. Do you know him? He was a really, really sweet guy. I enjoyed him a lot. Edited August 14, 2003 by Soul Stream Quote
JSngry Posted August 14, 2003 Report Posted August 14, 2003 Only know him casually. Played a few gigs with him back in the day. You're right on all counts. BTW, he was a HUGE indirect influence. Cat also has had a career as a jazz DJ. First heard him in the early '70s on KNOK-FM outta FW, featuring the omnipresent "Have YOU been to Mr. G's Motel?" ad ALL freakin' night. He did the all-night shift M-F, and I'd stay up all night, even on school nights, listening. The station faded in and out quite a bit (I was 130 or so miles away), so it was a hassle, but he played the best of the old and all of the new (good AND bad). Heard a lot of things, GOOD things, for the first time on that show. And some bad things too - he played the SHIT outta BLACK BYRD when it came out... He later had the afternoon drive-time show on the old KSAX-AM, a dawn-till-dusk all jazz station that was around in the late '70s. He'd play a BUNCH of then OOP BN stuff, long jams back to back to back, stopping only for commercials. Great times, those were. No bullshit, just groove. And in classic AM sound, no less. The kids today don't know what they're missing. Seriously. AM has a MOJO. Then he went to our now-defunct jazz FM station (can't remember the call letters right now, darn it), and finally was on public access KNON-FM, playing a lot of the same LPs he played on KNOK. I'd hear the scratches and think, "I knew you when!" Guess he finally retired from radio. Too bad. Yeah, Bob Stewart's cool! Quote
Soul Stream Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Posted August 14, 2003 I forgot he said he was a jazz d.j.! He said he and his wife were in "school security" now. Too bad, I'd love to hear a show like you describe. Guys like him are a lost breed. The old days when musicians were d.js, and d.js were musicians! Now those two things are mutually exclusive. Quote
undergroundagent Posted January 28, 2004 Report Posted January 28, 2004 I just thought that I'd mention that "Mo Greens, Please" was reissued today as a JRVG. I'm looking forward to hearing this version. Great album! Great Cover as well... Quote
JSngry Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 Finally got around to buying that Ace/BGP reissue of two of Freddie's Prestige dates that Brownie mentioned. Not as much gel-factor as on the BN dates, but much marvelous music neverthenonetheless. Two more great liner essays, as well. Two questions: In addition to reprinting facsimiles of the original liners, there's a little "modern" (1998) blurb. In it, it's stated that Freddie moved to Paris in the '70s and became an arranger for Oliver Lake's big band. WTF is that all about? It also makes mention of a third FR Prestige date, a thing called MY PEOPLE (SOUL PEOPLE) that had a horn section. Anybody ever heard that, has it ever been on CD, and where can I get a copy? Freddie Roach continues to satisfy. Quote
brownie Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 In addition to reprinting facsimiles of the original liners, there's a little "modern" (1998) blurb. In it, it's stated that Freddie moved to Paris in the '70s and became an arranger for Oliver Lake's big band. WTF is that all about? Oliver Lake led a band in Paris in the early '70s but the musicians were part of the Black Artists Group from St.Louis. Can't recall the presence of Freddie Roach around these parts. I was a fan of his and would be sorry if I missed a chance to hear him play! Quote
bertrand Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 Jim, The MLK library in DC had a copy of My People (Soul People) a few years back. I borrowed it a few times but never got around to listening to it. A quick search of their on-line catalog seems to show it is gone, which doesn't surprise me in the least as most of their LPs were stolen. A few of us tried to warn them that people were trying to sell LPs in their collection to used book stores, but they didn't seem to give a fuck. Next time I'm there, I will try to see if they have it. Some of their LPs were never cataloged. Cross your fingers... Bertrand. Quote
andybleaden Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) Yeh i have this from Japan This took me years to find and was very different again ....as his prestige stuff was from his blue note material .....let me know if you need to hunt down a copy Here is the piccy from the back ....do not know if will show up ...will try the front next! Edited March 30, 2005 by andybleaden Quote
andybleaden Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 and the view from the other side of life Quote
Dan Gould Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 I thought the Prestige titles came out as a two-fer CD from a British company? Quote
Tony Pusey Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 Coming soon, Brown Sugar on Water! Quote
andybleaden Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 The prestige titles did come out as a two fer in England but only two of em! hence the title but there were three prestige titles in all Andy Quote
Eloe Omoe Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 In addition to reprinting facsimiles of the original liners, there's a little "modern" (1998) blurb. In it, it's stated that Freddie moved to Paris in the '70s and became an arranger for Oliver Lake's big band. WTF is that all about? I, too, had read those liner notes, and as soon as Oliver Lake came to Florence to play I asked him about Freddie Roach. He told me there must be an error of some kind, because he had never heard of Freddie Roach before Luca Quote
Indestructible! Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 It also makes mention of a third FR Prestige date, a thing called MY PEOPLE (SOUL PEOPLE) that had a horn section. Anybody ever heard that, has it ever been on CD, and where can I get a copy? Freddie Roach continues to satisfy. Hi Jim, I've had "My People (Soul People)" for quite a while, and while it's decent in spots, it really isn't Roach's best work. In fact, I've got all of Freddie's albums that he led, and MP(SP) ranks at the bottom for me. It's just too commercial (which can be cool by me, but this one doesn't gel at all), and the solo space is minimal here. Still, I'm a HUGE fan of Freddie! I really dig his understated style... and I must confess I too am a fan of "All That's Good"! There's some deep shit happening on that album! Let me know if I can help out... Cheers, Shane Quote
andybleaden Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 Especially the one that goes do do doooh sooh dah doo doo doo Waaaaah! Waaah! Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted March 31, 2005 Report Posted March 31, 2005 How about a publicly revised opinion? Man, I love Freddie Roach! How do you describe his style? He layers these textures... No real pyrotechnics, but he is so frigging sweet! Jimmy would play this way sometimes, but Freddie does it all the time! I've got "Brown Sugar" and "Mo Greens Please" along with the two Ike Quebecs. I just ordered the twofer on Prestige. I can't get enough Freddie Roach! Quote
undergroundagent Posted March 31, 2005 Report Posted March 31, 2005 (edited) I agree with Shane that "My People..." is an underwhelming date. That said I really do enjoy Roach's effort on the Ike Quebec dates. Of course, it could be that it is Quebec's playing elevates the level of everyone elses on those two sessions. Overall, Roach's BN dates are a mixed bag for me. I find "Down to Earth" and "Mo' Greens" to be excellent, "Good Move" average to above-average, and "Brown Sugar" to be below-average. I clearly do not prefer Joe Henderson in an organ setting. Edited March 31, 2005 by undergroundagent Quote
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