Paul Flaherty & Chris Corsano

[WD45]

The first time I saw Brotzmann play, I arrived early to hear him warming up by playing "blessing in disguise from Sonny Rollins' East Broadway Rundown. It indicated to me that he certainly does have a deeper love for the history of the music than I had earlier thought.

Putting him in the same group as Flaherty does them both a disservice. Two different backgrounds and approaches to improvisation. Equally enjoyable, maybe.

I got The Beloved Music from eMusic and I was blown away. I must say I like the approach Corsano takes. Based on the comments here, I may have to d/l the Flaherty solo album next month!

A Rock in the Snow just showed up in my mailbox today--can't wait to hear it. Funny thing is that it came from Important Records -- I won an eBay auction for a Brotzmann LP which was lost in the mail. The Flaherty/Corsano/Yeh disc was the replacement!

[clifford_thornton]

The first time I saw Brotzmann play, I arrived early to hear him warming up by playing "blessing in disguise from Sonny Rollins' East Broadway Rundown. It indicated to me that he certainly does have a deeper love for the history of the music than I had earlier thought.

That is very true, evident to me first from the time I interviewed him.

Listening to The Ink is Gone right now (duo w/ Walter Perkins, RIP). The take of "Master of a Small House" is excellent, and that tune is always an indication of Brotz's compassion/pity/pathos, whatever you want to call it.

[clifford_thornton]

I'll add that I didn't mean to derail this into a Brotzmann thread...

[ep1str0phy]

Funny Rat turns into an improv thread, the Flaherty thread derails into a Brotzmann thread (O! The irony!).

Like I (think I) said somewhere else--the collective understanding of Brotz is really handicapped by the virtual erasure of the better part of the FMP catalog. Fortunately, UMS and the listening community are rectifying that--but there are "all kinds" of Brotzmann on some of those albums that really don't come out anywhere else (I'm thinking, for example, for the Brotz/Miller/Moholo sides--very unique for all three of those guys).

[alocispepraluger102]

Funny Rat turns into an improv thread, the Flaherty thread derails into a Brotzmann thread (O! The irony!).

Like I (think I) said somewhere else--the collective understanding of Brotz is really handicapped by the virtual erasure of the better part of the FMP catalog. Fortunately, UMS and the listening community are rectifying that--but there are "all kinds" of Brotzmann on some of those albums that really don't come out anywhere else (I'm thinking, for example, for the Brotz/Miller/Moholo sides--very unique for all three of those guys).

he can really swing, too.

the recently released duo brotz and han recorded in the black forest is some of the purest and most beautiful music i have heard and han didnt even have his drums.

Peter Brötzmann/Han Bennink: Schwarzwaldfahrt (1977 [2005], Atavistic, 2CD): A picnic in the Black Forest -- "fahrt" means "trip," not what it sounds like -- with the former's reeds, a little viola and banjo, and whatever percussion the latter could conjure up by attacking nature; interesting as concept and process, for its occasional surprises.

Edited April 6, 2007 by alocispepraluger102

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, it's a great one, though I can't say the extra material was much of a "bonus" over the original LP. Ein Halber Hund Kann Nicht Pinkeln is also a good one, with drums.

I'm still holding out and hoping I can get my hands on a copy of the Atsugi Concert, however!

[clifford_thornton]

now you can say Hat & Atavistic & SIMP, etc & so on ain't gave him a reach around

Well, Cadence did record a couple of records with him and Randy Colbourne back in the late '80s/early '90s. Those are strong dates, as are his own on Tulpa from the same period.

Of course, his visibility I maintain has more to do with the Wire being late on shit, and Wire readers being even later to the party.

My first exposure was also with The Hated Music. Since, I've picked up a number of other sides that I prefer to that disc. In the grand scheme of things, I like him, respect him, but can't say I don't reach for other things first.

[Late]

It's easy to forget Cadence bc the mind swims in the ocean of SIMP's visual and audio genius like we're back in the fucking womb ...

You mean CIMP, no? And I'm assuming your "genius" call is sarcastic?

jes tryin to figger out yr tk

(Trying to write/type like that ... )

[clifford_thornton]

Not saying I'm not late to the party, too - I think FE was gone (as a mag) by the time I started getting heavily into this arm of improvised music. That was what, about ten years ago for me, give or take.

I don't really have much to add on the CIMP/Cadence trip; I'm not a fan for reasons similar to the ones Clem's outlined here. They could have done a MUCH better job with most of it.

As for Flaherty, I'm not saying he doesn't deserve recognition - I do think, however, he's pretty far from getting it in either the jazz or improv worlds. His recognition seems to be somewhere apart from that, but maybe it's partly because he himself is pretty far apart from those cliques. I don't know.

Of course, the dude can certainly PLAY with or without a MacArthur. His separateness is why I say I respect him a ton, even if I'm not all "best thing since sliced bread" about it.

[Chuck Nessa]

Maybe I could start a new label, buy one mike, find a long room, not pay anyone, convince a bunch of folks I'm ok and have a catalog of 400 cds.

[Late]

I'm not so hot on the CIMP/Cadence production ethos either, but, as this thread is expanding some, let me briefly list some discs from the Vast Rusch Vortex that do deserve attention because of their musical value:

• Herb Robertson: Falling In Flat Space (trumpet-bass-drums) CJR 1065

• Ken Simon: The Twilight of Time (tenor-bass-drums) CJR 1082

• Steve Swell: Atmospheels (trombone-bass-drums) CIMP 184

• Elliot Levin & Tyrone Hill: A Fine Intensity (tenor-trombone-bass-drums) CIMP 200

I have more Cadence/CIMP discs, but these stand out to me. If a person's into pianoless music with a freeish bent, these are worth looking into. I'd give them all 4 stars. Sound is what you'd expect, though the CJR's sound better overall.

Edited April 9, 2007 by Late

[ep1str0phy]

I've found that the better CIMP performances have stood up to the recording quality. The Frank Lowes and Joe McPhees for example. I mean, circumstances could have been better, but it's hard to cover a really great session in shit.

[AllenLowe]

Flaherty used to show up on occasion, believe it or not, at a jam session at a club in Hartford in the 1980s - got up to play 20 minute solos, was something like the Mighty Autistic Saxophonist, unaware of anyone around him, oblivious to his surroundings in a weirdly contemptuous way; don't want to get into a big war here, but int he past I have criticized this style of music as being guilty of a new kind of formalism - meaning that it believes that it's own discoveries of formal innovation are sufficient in and of themsleves (thinking of Olsen's belief that an object is its own meaning). Problem is, hear it once and you've heard most of what is is, and I am NOT arguing for a return to bebop aesthetics; I am only saying that form is part of a much larger picture in which, in a successful effort, it merges seamlessly with so-called "content" - in other words, in the best of things form and content are basically indistinguishable, part of a whole. In Flaherty's work form is all, and it consumes conventional notions of musical content, which would be ok if he had more and better ideas. To my way of hearing, all that he has come up with is a method of organizing his ideas, not a way of expressing or developing those ideas. This is a corner that, imho, a lot of free jazeers have painted themselves into. Personally I can accept Olsen's dictum; but that does not mean the object is necessarily, in and of itself, worthwhile or interesting - the revolution, in this sense, has been won; the problem now is how to govern.

Edited April 9, 2007 by AllenLowe

[Late]

I guess I don't want to have to defend Flaherty in this thread, but I'll try to make my own position a little clearer. I was impressed with The Hated Music, felt like gushing a bit, and also wanted to share my enthusiasm. If that's romanticizing, I'll take it. I'd rather be a little on the romantic side than on the cynical (?) side, even if my enthusiasm diminishes some over time — which is bound to happen.

Assif Tsahar, just like Flaherty, is surely not the next "great" tenor saxophonist to come along — whatever that could possibly be. Listeners' standards, particularly when it comes to this kind of improvised music, are bizarrely different. But Tsahar has made some good records. Check out his trio side with Peter Kowald and Rashied Ali. He gives it all he's got, even though he inevitably comes up short of Brötzmann (who do I admire) and Coltrane — the two tenors that, because of his company on the session, bear the most immediate comparison.

It's weird that personality seems to bear a significance, often times commensurate with performance, on a listeners' response in this music.

[clifford_thornton]

Thanks, Allen, for that insightful post.

Being aware of outside traditions and choosing to use or not use them, as an improviser, is a bone of contention that I can't fairly get involved with. Bet Sangrey also has some good ideas along this point.

Those same arguments were levied against Brotzmann (in contrast to someone like, say, Gerd Dudek) back in the day. Obviously, Brotzmann has a shit-ton of respect for, and interest in, the tradition of improvising on the saxophone. For Adolphe Sax, indeed. I'm not sure whether or not Flaherty does, or Assif for that matter (quoting Sunny Murray - "that Israeli or whatever guy, whatsisname?"), or Arthur Doyle who is another matter altogether.

[AllenLowe]

Personally it does not worry me if a player does not know the tradition; certainly history has its uses, though in the hands of certain people at Lincoln Center it has become a reactionary critical weapon. I take the music as it comes, though it is true that the problems certain creative people have (and not only in jazz and not only in music) might be mitigated by some true historical perspective. The dangers of a-historicism are seen in all contemporary media. I was thinking, for example,of NPR's this American Life in which so many of the features suffer from the author's clear lack of awareness that certain ideas and creative angles are old news; same in film and music. He who know the past will frequently repeat that past, but oft times with a greater sense of self-conscious (and creative) distance. This is a complicated subject, and one I deal with in some detail in the notes to my new CD.

Flaherty strikes me as a good player, but there's a difference between mannerism and style, and I think the kind of formalism I dislike is characterized by excessive mannerism. Now, someone might argue that I am simply not getting it, and, truth be told, I do worry that this might be true, especially given how burnt out I am from listening to so much jazz during the course of my life. I am at the point where I often have trouble distinguishing cause and effect - am I tired because of the way the music is, or does the music sound tired because of the way I feel? For that very reason I do not want to be the last word on this -

on the other hand, maybe I'm right; problem is, any time I take a position with which, say, Stanley Crouch would agree, I worry.

I'd be curious about Larry Kart's feelings on all of this - I trust his judgment more than I trust my own -

[WD45]

I can add nothing to the above, but that NPR does not distribute This American Life. That would be PRI, Public Radio International.

[AllenLowe]

sorry; PRI also does Fresh Air, I think.

I like This American Life on occasion but am offended by some of the hisorical gaffes they make - like a recent essayist who confused the Weimar and Nazi era - certainly an important distinction. I also find that they are mired a bit in a rather old-fashioned sense of American "realism", a just--plain-folks style that mars not only their presentation but which also effects the kind of subjects they choose. It's as though about 40 years of American topical essayist/humor has passed them by, from Lenny Bruce to Donald Barthelme to Bill Hicks -

Edited April 10, 2007 by AllenLowe

[randyhersom]

Maybe I could start a new label, buy one mike, find a long room, not pay anyone, convince a bunch of folks I'm ok and have a catalog of 400 cds.

And still not make any money?

[WD45]

NPR distributes Fresh Air. I could go on for days...

Just heard the new Bjork single featuring one Chris Corsano on drums, produced by Timbaland. Electric Likembes provided by Konono No. 1.

Nice groove!

[clifford_thornton]

Corsano's also playing with Ben Chasny. The Roaratorio LP is good; the Drag City stuff, well, not so good...

[AllenLowe]

"NPR distributes Fresh Air. "

sorry, I was thinking of America's Top Supermodel, which PRI handles along with The Surreal Life - and that Serial Snuff show, where they pick an American at random every week to kill -

Edited April 11, 2007 by AllenLowe

[John B]

Corsano appears on the new live Jandek album, along with Loren Connors and Matt Heyner.

Dusted has a good review of this album posted today.