Guy Berger Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Isn't Carmelo still suspended? Yes, but it's telling that despite Iverson's arrival the team has been crap. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Isn't Carmelo still suspended? Yes, but it's telling that despite Iverson's arrival the team has been crap. Guy Oh come on, not only is Carmelo out but so is J.R. Smith (the former #2 option, #3 once everyone is able to play.) Camby also went down for a time. Hardly fair to blame the team's performance when 3/5's of your starters aren't able to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Isn't Carmelo still suspended? Yes, but it's telling that despite Iverson's arrival the team has been crap. Guy Oh come on, not only is Carmelo out but so is J.R. Smith (the former #2 option, #3 once everyone is able to play.) Camby also went down for a time. Hardly fair to blame the team's performance when 3/5's of your starters aren't able to play. Whoops, I didn't think of JR Smith. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Time will tell. Murphy and Dunleavy may have been getting stale with the Warriors, but they're both good players with plenty of basketball left in them. I disagree about them being good players. You know more about basketball than Larry Bird, do you? They're both "good" players by my definition, with enough NBA skills to contribute in the right setting. I'm not saying either of them are ever going to be all-stars, but they're not making the kind of money they're making for no reason. Neither of them fits well into Nellie's style, and they've gradually lost some confidence as a result. I agree that Dunleavy is inconsistent, but a lot of players can be that way (Derek Fisher, anyone?). I also agree about Murphy's inside game being less than admirable for a guy his size, but he still gets his points in the paint off of offensive rebounds and occasionally scoring over smaller guys. Anyway, his outside shooting makes up for what he lacks inside. He could very well go back to getting frequent double-doubles in Indiana. I'm kind of on the fence about Pietrus. I think he's improved some aspects of his game (perimiter shooting, and knowing when to go to the basket), but he's still lacking in certain fundamentals (footwork, not stepping out of bounds every time he begins a drive from the sideline; knowing how to run a fast break; avoiding charges, etc), and doesn't seem like he'll ever develop a basketball mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 I remember being bewildered that the Warriors gave Derek Fisher such a huge contract, as if he were a great starting point guard. He was a hard-nosed defender, but he was already showing signs of slowing as a Laker. Fish worked great with Shaq and Kobe, because he really developed his three point shot and the two bigs drew so much help that he was wide open all the time. He'll always be a favorite in Lakerland, but the Warriors really overpaid for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 (edited) Time will tell. Murphy and Dunleavy may have been getting stale with the Warriors, but they're both good players with plenty of basketball left in them. I disagree about them being good players. You know more about basketball than Larry Bird, do you? It's not clear why Bird did the trade. It could be that he simply wanted to get rid of Stephen Jackson and/or get his hands on Ike Diogu, in which case acquiring Murphleavy was simply a costly byproduct. They're both "good" players by my definition, with enough NBA skills to contribute in the right setting. I'm not saying either of them are ever going to be all-stars, but they're not making the kind of money they're making for no reason. Agreed -- they are making the kind of money they're making for a poor reason. Mullin overvalued their talents and gave them bloated contract extensions. Neither showed anywhere near the kind of talent that merited their salary. Neither of them fits well into Nellie's style, and they've gradually lost some confidence as a result. That may be true of Murphy, but Dunleavy is actually having a better season this year. And even with Murphy, it could be argued that he's simply been displaced by better players on offense and rebounding rather than a loss in confidence. I agree that Dunleavy is inconsistent, but a lot of players can be that way (Derek Fisher, anyone?). Another guy that Mullin overpaid... fortunately he's been able to correct those mistakes via trade. Now if he could only find a taker for Adonal Foyle! Guy Edited January 18, 2007 by Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Fisher did hit some big shots when he was with the W's, but for every big shot he hit, he made two or three bonehead plays that cost us games (really dumb passes; bad decisions like trying to be superman and driving into the lane against two shot blockers with seven seconds left; fouling guys beyond the arc with the 24 second clock expiring... etc etc etc). For a veteran to constantly do those things, I couldn't believe it, nor forgive it. I don't pay a lot of attention to contract amounts, it's all about what he did on the floor for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Time will tell. Murphy and Dunleavy may have been getting stale with the Warriors, but they're both good players with plenty of basketball left in them. I disagree about them being good players. You know more about basketball than Larry Bird, do you? It's not clear why Bird did the trade. It could be that he simply wanted to get rid of Stephen Jackson and/or get his hands on Ike Diogu, in which case acquiring Murphleavy was simply a costly byproduct. They're both "good" players by my definition, with enough NBA skills to contribute in the right setting. I'm not saying either of them are ever going to be all-stars, but they're not making the kind of money they're making for no reason. Agreed -- they are making the kind of money they're making for a poor reason. Mullin overvalued their talents and gave them bloated contract extensions. Neither showed anywhere near the kind of talent that merited their salary. I wasn't even taking their salaries into consideration. I'm just saying they're both still good, serviceable players. I expect them to play and contribute in Indiana, and as long as they remain in the league and don't spend the majority of their time on someone's bench, I'll continue to see them as good players. I hope they will thrive in their new setting. I think the name-calling directed at Dunleavy is kind of unfair and childish. Mike is a hardworking pro, and by all accounts a class guy. I think the namecalling should be reserved for the crybabies and the slackers (and of course, the criminals) of the pro sports world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 (edited) Agreed -- they are making the kind of money they're making for a poor reason. Mullin overvalued their talents and gave them bloated contract extensions. Neither showed anywhere near the kind of talent that merited their salary. I wasn't even taking their salaries into consideration. I'm just saying they're both still good, serviceable players. I expect them to play and contribute in Indiana, and as long as they remain in the league and don't spend the majority of their time on someone's bench, I'll continue to see them as good players. I don't think it's possible to evaluate these guys without taking their salaries into consideration. I agree that for the veteran's minimum, or maybe even for $2M/year apiece, these guys are not a bad value. Neither of them completely sucks and both are capable of contributing something at the pro level. But for $8M apiece, you could hire three or four different players who play at the same level. (Heck, Matt Barnes has been as good as Dunleavy at 10% of the price. For a Tayshaun Prince price, I expect Tayshaun Prince production.) Forwards with average shooting skills, no inside game and unremarkable (or worse) defense are quite replaceable in this league. Guy Edited January 18, 2007 by Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Jim--The derogatory nickname for Dunleavy isn't my creation, fwiw. He and Murph are both classy players, as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Agreed -- they are making the kind of money they're making for a poor reason. Mullin overvalued their talents and gave them bloated contract extensions. Neither showed anywhere near the kind of talent that merited their salary. I wasn't even taking their salaries into consideration. I'm just saying they're both still good, serviceable players. I expect them to play and contribute in Indiana, and as long as they remain in the league and don't spend the majority of their time on someone's bench, I'll continue to see them as good players. I don't think it's possible to evaluate these guys without taking their salaries into consideration. I agree that for the veteran's minimum, or maybe even for $2M/year apiece, these guys are not a bad value. Neither of them completely sucks and both are capable of contributing something at the pro level. But for $8M apiece, you could hire three or four different players who play at the same level. (Heck, Matt Barnes has been as good as Dunleavy at 10% of the price.) Forwards with average shooting skills, no inside game and unremarkable (or worse) defense are quite replaceable in this league. Guy I know that it's important (and a fun thing for some) to consider the business side of basketball (and all pro sports for that matter). It's just never interested me much. So, yes, it's possible for me to evaluate athletes (as players/performers) without taking salaries into consideration. I understand that economics are a huge part of the picture, but I prefer and choose to try to forget about that as much as possible and focus on the games and performances themselves. Not only do I have less of a natural interest in the economic side of things, but I've encountered a lot of guys who focus so much on salaries and deals and the league financial structure that they can't carry on a good conversation about the actual sport, the games, the players' performances on the court/field. This annoys me. My father-in-law, for example... I can't talk to him about the Warriors anymore, because all he wants to discuss is $$$. Yawn. I'm a sports fan, not an armchair GM. Anyway, I think it's possible (if increasingly rare) to evaluate players as players, without thinking about their salaries. I wanted the Warrilors to dump Derek Fisher for a long time, and never knew anything about his salary (but I do understand that economics plays a huge role in determining who gets moved, and when). Noj, I understand- it's cool, just sports fans bein' sports fans. I guess in some cases I think it goes a little overboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 NBA's still boring for some reason...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Next steps for Mullin: 1) trade Stephen Jackson Guy I couldn't believe that any team would trade for him, but the Warriors did. I'm sure that Mullin will find a taker somewhere. There will always be an idiot g.m. somewhere who will decide that he's not really a bad guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 LOL the lakers played the spurs last night and the mavs tonight thanks david stern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Yeah, thanks. This is very competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 you're lucky if you win 1 on a back 2 back vs those chumps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Yeah, thanks. This is very competitive. Is this really that unusual? I feel like the Warriors have had a few of those in the past few years. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 i guess the warriors needed a shooter......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I turned on the Pistons/Wolves game this evening, about half-way through the 3rd. The score was like 48-43. Anyway, it was pretty dull at that point, but I hung in. Good thing. I got to see a couple of overtimes, and a couple of ejections. 'Sheed had gotten his 13th T of the year, and with Mark Madsen banging everybody in the paint, I guess tensions were running pretty high. Madsen got his hands all over McDyess (I'm not sure if I'm spelling that right), who proceeds to drop him with a high elbow. He gets T'd up too, but KG decides to come over and vent in his face. They start pushing, and KG throws the ball at McDyess (and then runs away a al Carmello). Pretty lame stuff. Both of them got ejected, and deservedly so. KG showed me very little intelligence... sure he was standing up for a teammate, but he could have just kept it verbal. It's lucky that there were enough cool heads to prevent another brawl. Pistons won, primarly due to a bonehead defensive lapse by Minn... leaving Billups alone at the top of the arc, coming off a screen, when they were UP THREE with a few seconds left. You have to defend the damn arc in that situation, not guard everybody that goes into the paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Pistons won, primarly due to a bonehead defensive lapse by Minn... Good. The Warriors will need Minny to lose some if they're going to sneak into spot #8. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Good. The Warriors will need Minny to lose some if they're going to sneak into spot #8. Yep, that's one of the things we'll need. Another is 8 people who can suit up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) Ex-Warriors' performance in Indiana's loss to New York: Dunleavy bricked his way to 14 pts on 6-17 shooting (but Al Harrington was even worse!) Troy Murphy got 10 pts and 11 rebounds in 23 minutes -- no indication in the stats of how atrocious he was on defense Ike Diogu played 5 minutes Embarrassing loss by the Warriors tonight. Stephen Jackson was decent (lots of points on so-so shooting) and Harrington was atrocious (4-21 shooting but 11 rebs). The new backup point guard (won't try to spell his name) was pretty good. Guy Edited January 21, 2007 by Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Cavs west coast swing is finally over. After a 7-1 run just before the trip, there was some reason to be optimistic. Ultimately they finished 3-4 (wins: LAC, SAC, GSW, losses: PHX, DEN, SEA, POR). The Sonics and Blazers losses were the tough ones. A 5-2 trip would have been great. Still have the best record in the mediocre east (tied with Gilbert and the Wiz) and a winning record against the west. Still have only one road win against .500+ opponent (Spurs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 FREE NBA Pass on comcast digital cable this week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Ex-Warriors' performance in Indiana's loss to New York: Dunleavy bricked his way to 14 pts on 6-17 shooting (but Al Harrington was even worse!) Troy Murphy got 10 pts and 11 rebounds in 23 minutes -- no indication in the stats of how atrocious he was on defense Ike Diogu played 5 minutes Embarrassing loss by the Warriors tonight. Stephen Jackson was decent (lots of points on so-so shooting) and Harrington was atrocious (4-21 shooting but 11 rebs). The new backup point guard (won't try to spell his name) was pretty good. Guy Harrington and Jackson were too selfish down the stretch. I'm not sure if it's what Nelson intended, but it was clear that they were going to try to make most of the plays at the end of the game, and they were way too predictable (and in Harrington's case, sloppy). Harrington was having a bad night from the get-go, which only made the approach seem more foolish. Between the two of them they had ten turnovers. Jackson did hit some big shots, but as you say, his percentage wasn't that good. Monta should have been more involved in the offense toward the end of the game (but I'll admit that nobody was shooting very well, so it might not have made a difference). The l-o-n-g scoring droughts came back to haunt us again. Oh well, overall I'd say it was a decent effort, considering all the new faces, and the fact that we were going without JRich and Baron. Davis would have made a big difference in the offense, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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