Guy Berger Posted September 14, 2006 Report Posted September 14, 2006 He does more here than lift an old folk tune and put words to it (which Woody Guthrie often did), or borrow a few phrases and turn it into a unique work. If you listen to Muddy Waters' "Trouble No More" on his Chess box, or any greatest hits package with his recording of it, and then listen to Dylan's "Someday Baby" on "Modern Times"--they are the same song. Dylan has changed/added a few words, but not much. It reminds me of an elementary school student who copies an encyclopedia article for an assignment and changes three words in it to not get "caught." Same thing with Muddy Waters' "Rollin' and Tumblin'". Dylan even steals the title of this one. It is the same song. Dylan is not using it as mere base material for a unique lyrical quest, as Dylan was doing in the "Blonde on Blonde" era. Are the copyrights expired on "Rollin' and Tumblin'" and "Trouble No More"? I don't know that. When the Allman Brothers record "Trouble No More" they always credit it to Muddy Waters--are they just dumb? I haven't heard the album yet, but if what you are saying is true then Dylan has acted unethically. Guy Quote
J Larsen Posted September 14, 2006 Report Posted September 14, 2006 He does more here than lift an old folk tune and put words to it (which Woody Guthrie often did), or borrow a few phrases and turn it into a unique work. If you listen to Muddy Waters' "Trouble No More" on his Chess box, or any greatest hits package with his recording of it, and then listen to Dylan's "Someday Baby" on "Modern Times"--they are the same song. Dylan has changed/added a few words, but not much. It reminds me of an elementary school student who copies an encyclopedia article for an assignment and changes three words in it to not get "caught." Same thing with Muddy Waters' "Rollin' and Tumblin'". Dylan even steals the title of this one. It is the same song. Dylan is not using it as mere base material for a unique lyrical quest, as Dylan was doing in the "Blonde on Blonde" era. Are the copyrights expired on "Rollin' and Tumblin'" and "Trouble No More"? I don't know that. When the Allman Brothers record "Trouble No More" they always credit it to Muddy Waters--are they just dumb? I haven't heard the album yet, but if what you are saying is true then Dylan has acted unethically. Guy The documentary that came out about him last year did not portray him to be a very ethical person in general. Quote
jazzbo Posted September 14, 2006 Report Posted September 14, 2006 I heard that! Reminded me of Charlie Parker! Quote
Alexander Posted September 14, 2006 Report Posted September 14, 2006 Here's a beautiful music video for "When The Deal Goes Down" off the new album. It stars Scarlett Johansen. Two great tastes... Scarlett/Dylan video Quote
.:.impossible Posted September 14, 2006 Report Posted September 14, 2006 i asked howe gelb. he told me to ask nick cave. nick cave was not available for comment. Quote
Alexander Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 (edited) Personally, I think that *some* people are going to be negative in their reaction to this record no matter how good it is. Why? Well, for starters people seem to uncritically accept whatever Dylan does as a work of pure genius, so we automatically have to adjust our opinion accordingly. Secondly, this album is very, very popular and there are a lot of people who immediately dislike anything that achieves that kind of popular acclaim. I know a lot of OutKast fans who didn't just stop liking them when "Speakerboxx/The Love Below" came out, or even "Stankonia." No! They "sold out" with "Aquemini," or even "ATLiens." For a lot of fans, OutKast is "Two Dope Boyz in a Cadillac" and everything else is just Dre's ego trippin'. So it is for some Dylan fans. Sure, "Blood on the Tracks" is OKAY...you know, if you like "great music" and all that. But every REAL Dylan fan knows that he really started sucking the day he stepped into the studio to record his first album. The shit he recorded at the Gaslight? *That's* the real thing... Edited September 15, 2006 by Alexander Quote
sal Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 Personally, I think that *some* people are going to be negative in their reaction to this record no matter how good it is. Why? Well, for starters people seem to uncritically accept whatever Dylan does as a work of pure genius, so we automatically have to adjust our opinion accordingly. Secondly, this album is very, very popular and there are a lot of people who immediately dislike anything that achieves that kind of popular acclaim. I know a lot of OutKast fans who didn't just stop liking them when "Speakerboxx/The Love Below" came out, or even "Stankonia." No! They "sold out" with "Aquemini," or even "ATLiens." For a lot of fans, OutKast is "Two Dope Boyz in a Cadillac" and everything else is just Dre's ego trippin'. So it is for some Dylan fans. Sure, "Blood on the Tracks" is OKAY...you know, if you like "great music" and all that. But every REAL Dylan fan knows that he really started sucking the day he stepped into the studio to record his first album. The shit he recorded at the Gaslight? *That's* the real thing... Good points Alexander. Funny you make the Outkast comparision, as I was "one of those people" who stopped liking Outkast as soon as "Aquemini" came out! However, I've been revisiting them recently after an absence of about 8 years from their music, and I've actually come to enjoy "Aquemini", "Stankonia", and yes, even the dreaded "Speakerboxx/Love Below". Sorry about the change in subject......I think "Modern Times" is a great Bob Dylan album, no matter what. Quote
HolyStitt Posted September 15, 2006 Author Report Posted September 15, 2006 Has anyone recently seen Bob on tour? Quote
Hot Ptah Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 I think that it is possible to view "Modern Times" as a mediocre album, patched together with borrowed or stolen words and music, without belonging to any cult or camp that either adores Dylan or is unduly harsh to Dylan. It just isn't that great of an album. I have listened to it over 50 times now and it is a mediocre album by any standards, Bob's or anyone else's. I wish that Dylan would put out something great. I wish him well. But this album, ho hum. Quote
sal Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 Has anyone recently seen Bob on tour? Saw him earlier in August at Comstock Park in Michigan. He was excellent, although his new band isn't as good as the one he had up until about 2 years ago or so. Quote
Parkertown Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 Here's a beautiful music video for "When The Deal Goes Down" off the new album. It stars Scarlett Johansen. Two great tastes... Scarlett/Dylan video She is possibly the most beautiful creature on Earth... Classic beauty...I'm smitten. Quote
HolyStitt Posted September 15, 2006 Author Report Posted September 15, 2006 Saw him earlier in August at Comstock Park in Michigan. He was excellent, although his new band isn't as good as the one he had up until about 2 years ago or so. I have seen his last three Ballpark tours and have enjoyed these shows much more then the time I saw him in 1993 with Santana. The set lists might not be as creative as they were in past years, but IMHO he is singing with more emotion and intensity then when i saw him 1993. In Rochester, a few weeks ago, he did some phrasing on "Nowhere" that, I thought, was just a pure blast. Quote
Alexander Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 I saw Bob many times (at least four or five) in the late 80s and thought that the shows were really horrible. Dylan was openly hostile, he ran through the lyrics to his songs twice as fast as the musicians could play them. Each song was a round of "name that Dylan tune" where audience members whispered among themselves trying to figure out if this was a new song they hadn't heard before, or an old song that they simply could not recongnize. The last time I saw him was in May of 1991. It was by far the best show I had ever seen. Not only was he understandable, he seemed happy to be there. He even pulled out "The Man in Me" (this was waaaay before "The Big Lebowski"), one of my favorite tunes from "New Morning." At that point, I decided that it was best to quit while I was ahead, and I haven't seen him live since. I'd consider it, however, given the high quality of his recorded output in recent years. And to Clem, who unfavorably compared "Modern Times" to "Under The Red Sky"...I happen to LOVE "Under the Red Sky" and think that it's one of Dylan's most underrated albums. So there. Quote
Alexander Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 Here's a beautiful music video for "When The Deal Goes Down" off the new album. It stars Scarlett Johansen. Two great tastes... Scarlett/Dylan video She is possibly the most beautiful creature on Earth... Classic beauty...I'm smitten. I don't know what it is about her, but she is really amazing. She really fits the period of the video. She's a little old for it now, but she would have made the PERFECT Delores Haze...I can see Humbert getting all bent out of shape over her. Quote
Rob C Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 I have listened to it over 50 times now and it is a mediocre album by any standards, Bob's or anyone else's. Fifty times! You sure are investing a lot of time in "mediocrity"! Quote
jazzbo Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 Here's a beautiful music video for "When The Deal Goes Down" off the new album. It stars Scarlett Johansen. Two great tastes... Scarlett/Dylan video She is possibly the most beautiful creature on Earth... Classic beauty...I'm smitten. If I think really hard, I can remember one or two of my early girlfriends looking like Scarlett too. . . ! Quote
JSngry Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 When the well runs dry, we know the value of water. Benjamin Franklin You don't miss your water 'til the well runs dry Quote
JSngry Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 I think that Benjamin Franklin was a Founding Father of Southern Soul, that's what I think. Quote
medjuck Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 How come no-one ever mentinons Bob's borrowings from Warren Zevone. Actually I think they're more an homage to Warren Zevon. He used lines from Zevon's song Absolutely Like a Martyr as the titles of one song (Abandoned Love) and one Album (Time Out of Mind). Then he began covering Absolutely Like a Martyr (Along with a few other Zevon tunes) on the tour he did just before Zevon died. Warren was in the audience in LA for that tour and was thrilled. Quote
kulu se mama Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 dylan called his last one "love and theft" yet on "modern times" he borrowed the title from a charlie chaplan movie, he borrowed some lyrics from a civil war era poet, and he borrowed the album cover from a luna ep. go figure. Quote
Alexander Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 ya'll are just TRICKED bc it's probably the first mediocre Dylan record that SOUNDS better than it is... in the past when he botched it sleepwalking, it was obvious. My God...you're right! I have been tricked! That'll teach me to trust my own ears and taste rather than Clem's judgment! Imagine if I hadn't been warned...I might have gone the rest of my life thinking I liked something I really didn't like! Quote
Alexander Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 ya'll are just TRICKED bc it's probably the first mediocre Dylan record that SOUNDS better than it is... in the past when he botched it sleepwalking, it was obvious. My God...you're right! I have been tricked! That'll teach me to trust my own ears and taste rather than Clem's judgment! Imagine if I hadn't been warned...I might have gone the rest of my life thinking I liked something I really didn't like! Quote
HolyStitt Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Posted September 16, 2006 ya'll are just TRICKED bc it's probably the first mediocre Dylan record that SOUNDS better than it is... in the past when he botched it sleepwalking, it was obvious. My God...you're right! I have been tricked! That'll teach me to trust my own ears and taste rather than Clem's judgment! Imagine if I hadn't been warned...I might have gone the rest of my life thinking I liked something I really didn't like! Quote
HolyStitt Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Posted September 16, 2006 you'll grow up and listen more widely in the tradition that Dylan's jacking here. still no words on Spider John Koerner Let me get this right: Once the TRUE fan has heard Koerner and Dylan's other influences, then they shouldn't like "Modern Times"? Quote
rostasi Posted September 16, 2006 Report Posted September 16, 2006 I think that Clem means that some people could get a better perspective on Dylan and his "roots" by checking out some of the overlooked guys who haven't had the constant flashlight (not even laser pointer) directed at them. Listening to something like Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Been can give some insight. Rod Quote
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