Steve Grossman on tenor

[Mark Stryker]

I've been thinking about Grossman, who turned 65 on Monday. I wrote out a few thoughts here for those who might be interested: https://www.facebook.com/mark.stryker.35/posts/573329876165185?comment_id=573518312813008&notif_t=like

[clifford_thornton]

Nice piece - I'm better acquainted with his earlier work. Some years ago what was then called All About Jazz New York did a piece on him that I thought was good. Maybe Andrey Henkin was the interviewer?

[Peter Friedman]

There are certainly many who have a different opinion, but I am not in agreement with Mark's piece. When Grossman was in his heavy Coltrane mode, he struck me as rather faceless and, to my taste, uninteresting.

After resurfacing with an emphasis on bop and a definite Sonny Rollins influence, I found his playing hard swinging and strongly engaging. His many sessions on the Dreyfus label with some of my favorites such as Barry Harris and Cedar Walton (and a some others) featured the best playing I had heard from Grossman.He became one of my favorite living tenor players.

Of course all this reflects my (conservative?) love for bop / hard bop jazz. I am hoping that Steve continues to produce more in this vein. 

 

[BillF]

Discovered Grossman relatively recently via Spotify. Albums I have enjoyed are A Small Hotel, Bouncing with Mr A T, Do It, Love Is the Thing, My Second Prime, Time to Smile, Way Out East Vols 1 & 2 and + Cedar Walton Trio.

[mikeweil]

I must admit I like him best on his LPs with Stone Alliance and as a leader on PM Records - the latter have the Stone Alliance trio plus Jan Hammer in a raw jam session atmosphere. His energy was so high and direct at the time. I have one or two LPs he recorded with European sidemen at the time with a similar engaging tone.

He was in town a few months ago, but after listening to several samples of his recent playing I decided not to go - his newer style just doesn't get me as much.

[Gheorghe]

I remember I heard him live once about 1990 at the former "Opus One" in Viena.

He played tenor only, and I think he was with the Uli Lenz Trio. Great music, and as you said, he played more "mainstream" than in the early 70´s . But I love his soprano sax with early electric Miles also......

[clifford_thornton]

How's his Horo LP?

[Homefromtheforest]

27 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

How's his Horo LP?

It's cool but not "amazing"; worth picking up if you see it for not too much dough 

[clifford_thornton]

kinda what I figured... thanks!

[mikeweil]

6 hours ago, Homefromtheforest said:

It's cool but not "amazing"; worth picking up if you see it for not too much dough 

That's a nice description of that LP. Must have been a sidespring of his European tour with Elvin Jones in 1974.

Grossman was starting to work as a single with local rhythm sections besides playing with Elvin or Stone Alliance;  after leaving (Bob Mintzer replaced him) he did this exclusively besides accepting sideman dates, and so the results depend on whatever chemistry develops. The one on the French Musica label from 1978, 'New Moon', is more exciting, IMO.

[Mark Stryker]

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 11:34 AM, Peter Friedman said:

There are certainly many who have a different opinion, but I am not in agreement with Mark's piece. When Grossman was in his heavy Coltrane mode, he struck me as rather faceless and, to my taste, uninteresting.

After resurfacing with an emphasis on bop and a definite Sonny Rollins influence, I found his playing hard swinging and strongly engaging. His many sessions on the Dreyfus label with some of my favorites such as Barry Harris and Cedar Walton (and a some others) featured the best playing I had heard from Grossman.He became one of my favorite living tenor players.

Of course all this reflects my (conservative?) love for bop / hard bop jazz. I am hoping that Steve continues to produce more in this vein. 

 

To be clear, Peter, the shift toward Rollins is less the specific issue for me -- there's no bigger Sonny Rollins fan that me and I really love the best of Grossman's later playing -- than the overall evidence that he stopped growing as an artist and the ragged jam-session quality of so much of later work (the best of the Red and Dreyfus records excepted). He had a beat on a really original voice that he gave up on really early -- he turned 29 in 1980. But what if, absent the drugs and personal issues, he had been able to take on the Rollins the influence without mortgaging a more ambitious search for a grander synthesis of all his influences? Of course, his music, his choice, his life. 

[JSngry]

There was a once widely circulated bootleg of Grossman playing at a club called Brown's that is really revealing about how much he appeared to be into "originality" and how much he was into "vibe". I think with him it's always been about "vibe", and that bugs me a lot lessthan it once did.

Now, having said that, the only SG that I really want to hear are the Stone Alliance/PL things. For me, that was him at all levels of personal peak. After that, well, what are you gonna do with all that, huh?

[Peter Friedman]

On January 22, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Mark Stryker said:

To be clear, Peter, the shift toward Rollins is less the specific issue for me -- there's no bigger Sonny Rollins fan that me and I really love the best of Grossman's later playing -- than the overall evidence that he stopped growing as an artist and the ragged jam-session quality of so much of later work (the best of the Red and Dreyfus records excepted). He had a beat on a really original voice that he gave up on really early -- he turned 29 in 1980. But what if, absent the drugs and personal issues, he had been able to take on the Rollins the influence without mortgaging a more ambitious search for a grander synthesis of all his influences? Of course, his music, his choice, his life. 

The issue of "growing as an artist", is one that can be viewed in more than one way. Some may view it as moving away from playing standards and well accepted jazz tunes to playing more originals and moving into more "outside" playing. Another way to look at growth might be to focus on the "depth" in whatever the artist is playing. Depth though can be a highly subjective concept.

A large percentage of my favorite jazz musicians stayed with the song form and played standards and jazz tunes throughout their careers, and did not play at all in an "outside" manner. I am thinking of musicians such as Zoot Sims, Al Cohn , Cedar Walton, Barry Harris and  Art Farmer. They all had reasonably lengthy careers, and Barry is still with us. Their "styles" did not appreciably change over time, and I suppose there are differing opinions as to whether their playing improved / had more depth as they matured. For example, I have read here that some believe Zoot was at his best in the early part of his career, while others have the opposite view.

So to bring this back to Steve Grossman, in my biased opinion, he grew as an artist based on his playing on the "best" Dreyfus and Red recordings.

  

[tomatamot]

13 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

.

So to bring this back to Steve Grossman, in my biased opinion, he grew as an artist based on his playing on the "best" Dreyfus and Red recordings.

  

Me too! 

[Gheorghe]

One thing I remember about the gig I saw in 1990 with the Gunter Lenz Trio was the last number. He played an ultra fast version of "Mr. Sandman"......