On Bird, 'Donna Lee' and Priestley´s book

[EKE BBB]

To avoid this discussion gets lost in another longer thread:

I've got one - and this stumped Phil Schaap years ago, who later asked it on his radio show AND took credit for originating the question:

"Who was Donna Lee?"

Donna Lee was Curley Russell's daughter.

[EKE BBB]

Hm, I think it's being mentioned in the liners to the 5LP Savoy box, no? I am sure I've read it somewhere.

Just looked it up there: "Bird prepared three of his finest and most sophisticated compositions - Chasin' the Bird, Donna Lee (named for Curly Russell's daughter) and Cheryl (named for Miles' daughter). His fourth original, Buzzy (named for Lubinsky's son), is a simple, but attractive riff blues." (from James Patrick's article on "The 1947-1948 Sessions" in said 5LP "Complete Savoy Studio Sessions" from 1978)

i think i read somewhere that buzzy was named after (??) boston drummer buzzy drootin (spelling?)

[EKE BBB]

Wasn't "Donna Lee" composed by Miles?

Guy

Yes. Brian Priestley's "Chasin' the Bird," page 59: "... the 'Indiana'-based 'Donna Lee' was an original line put together by Miles, whose authorship ws contradicted by the record-label credit 'Parker' but confirmed by Gil Evans and many other observers."

Also this, from Priestley's earlier, briefer "Charlie Parker": "Parker also uses a melodic 'macro-syncopation' of the length of phrases (a lack of which easily identifies tunes attributed to but not written by Parker, such as 'Ornithology' and 'Donna Lee')."

[EKE BBB]

I like all of Priestly's work, and the Bird book is short but smart and accurate -

this is interesting, Larry, as I tend to identify Bird's compositions by the ingenious harmonic extensions - usually shown in broken chords that land on odd but perfect places and which resolve quite miraculously. But Priestly may very well be right - though I do hear Bird's melodicism on Ornithology - on the other hand it, like Donna Lee, lacks the chromatic complexity of some the tunes we know to be his - thinking, also, rhythmically, of Billie's Bounce and Relaxin at Camarillo (playing that last with inexperienced rhythm sections always caused problems, somewhat like Dameron's Sid's Delight, which has the most difficult rhythmic twist I ever encountered in a bebop tune) -

[EKE BBB]

the Bird book is short but smart and accurate -

That's how it struck me. I also like Carl Woideck's "Charlie Parker." And don't miss Argentianian writer Julio Cortazer's long short story/novella "The Pursuer" (in his collection "Blow Up" -- yes, Antonioni's film is based on the title work) about the relationship between Bruno, a Leonard Feather-like jazz writer/promoter, and Johnny, a musician who is mostly based on Parker with a sprinking of Bud Powell. There are passages here where Parker the man and artist comes alive for me as he does nowhere else (nowhere else on a page, that is).

Sorry -- that's Julio Cortazar (1914-84), who was Paris-based and touched upon jazz in several of his works. Brownie probably knew him. The original title of the the "Blow Up" collection was "End of the Game." His best-known work probably is the novel "Hopscotch."

Edited August 18, 2006 by EKE BBB

[EKE BBB]

I found this technical explanation on why 'Donna Lee' was not composed by Bird on some remote web:

...Miles Davis, no doubt. Check every single tune Parker wrote - NO other tune resembles "Donna Lee" in terms of phrasing, and in terms of lack of repitition within the 32-bar melody. It sounds more like a chorus of an improvised Bird Solo than a composed piece.

I once was told that Donna Lee was, in fact, a Parker solo that someone transcribed. I think that this is closer to, yet still NOT, the Truth; look at how the composer seems to have gone out of his way to include almost EVERY SINGLE BE-BOP Device that one could fit into 32 bars : the chromatic surrounding notes that begin the phrase just before Bar 5 (and what a long phrase that is! 3 bars - show me another Parker composition that has a single phrase as long as that!); the classic Be-bop Tension notes in Bars 13 and (particularly) 14; the chromatic upwards-spiralling line through bars 25-26 (certainly a device Parker used in his improvisations, but not his compositions); Again, this line begins just before bar 25 and continues as one VERY LONG PHRASE until beat 1 of Bar 30.

It is almost as if someone has written a Be-bop STUDY by taking as many Parker-isms as possible and applying an almost THEORETICAL Be-bop approach to assembling VERY LONG PHRASES (it is Meticulously Crafted; a LOT of thought has gone into it), ultimately coming up with a "composed solo" over the changes of "Indiana" - a tune Parker blew over RELATIVELY infrequently.

It's as though Donna Lee was put together by an ambitious, almost over-eager, though very knowledgeable STUDENT of Be-Bop - a description that fits a 19 year-old MILES DAVIS perfectly!

[king ubu]

Cortazar's story is fabulous indeed - recommended reading for everybody here!

[Hot Ptah]

It is interesting to read that Donna Lee was a real person, one person. In Charles Mingus' autobiography "Beneath the Underdog", the impression is given that he was the lover, or perhaps the pimp, of two beautiful women, one named Donna and one named Lee. While it is never stated that they are the inspiration for the song title, it certainly jumped out at me and I wondered if they were.

[king ubu]

It is interesting to read that Donna Lee was a real person, one person. In Charles Mingus' autobiography "Beneath the Underdog", the impression is given that he was the lover, or perhaps the pimp, of two beautiful women, one named Donna and one named Lee. While it is never stated that they are the inspiration for the song title, it certainly jumped out at me and I wondered if they were.

That's one of the funnier episodes of that great book, but I don't take too many things in it too serious... that doesn't make it any less impressive a work, of course!

[AllenLowe]

the only reason I worry about the Miles credit for Donna Lee is that he was not above putting his name on other people's tunes - I seem to recall he may have taken credit at one point for When Lights Are Low -

Edited August 18, 2006 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

Don't know if he ever took credit for it, but he totally fucked upoverout the original bridge...

[Niko]

the only reason I worry about the Miles credit for Donna Lee is that he was not above putting his name on other people's tunes - I seem to recall he may have taken credit at one point for When Lights Are Low -

you sure know more about this than me... but isn't it the common story (doesn't mean it's true) that Miles and Gil Evans got to know each other when Evans wanted to arrange Donna Lee... maybe they just talked about publishing rights... still I would say it indicates that the Davis had more to do with Donna Lee than ... Richard Carpenter with Walkin

(not that Carpenter's name would often be mentioned these days without a mention of Walkin... still I hope you know what i mean)

[Larry Kart]

I believe that the most notable instances of Miles taking credit for pieces that were not his are "Tune Up" (Cleanhead Vinson's piece), "Solar" (Chuck Wayne's piece), and "Blue in Green" (essentially Bill Evans' creation, though he was in Miles' band at the time, and some interaction may have been involved -- see page 82 of Peter Pettinger's "Evans bio "How My Heart Sings," in which Earl Zinders is quoted that Evans wrote the piece in Zindars' apartment and that Zindars "has sketches to prove it").

[JSngry]

I believe that the most notable instances of Miles taking credit for pieces that were not his are "Tune Up" (Cleanhead Vinson's piece)...

As was "Four", the lore has it.

[Larry Kart]

Right. Forgot about "Four." Lord knows how many others there are.

[Niko]

Right. Forgot about "Four." Lord knows how many others there are.

aren't these examples from a little later in Miles career when he was somewhat deeper into personal problems?

[medjuck]

the only reason I worry about the Miles credit for Donna Lee is that he was not above putting his name on other people's tunes - I seem to recall he may have taken credit at one point for When Lights Are Low -

you sure know more about this than me... but isn't it the common story (doesn't mean it's true) that Miles and Gil Evans got to know each other when Evans wanted to arrange Donna Lee... maybe they just talked about publishing rights... still I would say it indicates that the Davis had more to do with Donna Lee than ... Richard Carpenter with Walkin

(not that Carpenter's name would often be mentioned these days without a mention of Walkin... still I hope you know what i mean)

I think I remember reading that Evans approached Bird about Donna Lee for advice when he wanted to arrange it for the Thornhill band. Bird told him to talk to Miles who had written it.

Why do you think Richard Carpenter (who ever he is) didn't write Walkin'?

[Larry Kart]

Carpenter was a notorious vulture/manager/producer -- of (at various times) Gene Ammons, Jimmy Mundy, Chet Baker et al.; the first and last names above suggest what the nature of Carpenter's hold on some of his clients was. "Gravy," which is "Walkin,'" was recorded by Ammons in 1950. Junior Mance, who was on that date, says it was written by Mundy and that the light-fingered Carpenter put his name on it as sole composer. To further cloud the picture, "El Sino" ( a 32-bar tune) credited to trombonist Charles Greenlee and bearing a strong similarity to "Walkin'/Gravy," was recorded in 1947 by baritonist Leo Parker. Ammons was a sideman on that date. It has been speculated that "Gravy" arose because Ammons told Mundy he wanted to record a blues that resembled "El Sino." I'm sure that there a lot more Richard Capenter tales out there -- including some about the 5-LP 1965 Baker record date (with George Coleman et al.) that Carpenter recorded in three days. As I recall, he put his name as co-composer (or worse) on several Tadd Dameron tunes that recorded on that date. Dameron, like Baker, fits into the pattern of neediness alluded to above.

[Guy Berger]

Right. Forgot about "Four." Lord knows how many others there are.

Zawinul claimed credit for "It's About That Time". Not sure how convincing that is.

Guy

[Hot Ptah]

There is a section in the maligned biography of Wayne Shorter, "Footprints", about Miles claiming half of the composer credit on Shorter's "Sanctuary". Shorter wrote a letter to try to get full composer credit back, which is reprinted in the book.

[Larry Kart]

A modification to my post above about Richard Carpenter's role as producer of that three-day, five-LP 1965 Chet Baker recording session for Prestige. At the time Carpenter was Tadd Dameron's manager, which accounts for the presence of a number of Dameron tunes on the session (not that Baker was averse to Dameron's music -- and as someone once said, even if Carpenter's motives were wholly or in large part mercenary on his own behalf, they were fine compositions). Don't have the albums myself (though I once had at least two of them), but I know that "Bevan Beeps," "Choose Now," "The 490," and "On a Misty Night," are all Dameron pieces, and think that there several more here as well.

Chet Baker Quintet

Chet Baker (flh) George Coleman (ts) Kirk Lightsey (p) Herman Wright (b) Roy Brooks (d)

NYC, August 23, 25 & 29, 1965

Grade "A" Gravy Prestige PR 7449, PRCD 24172-2

Serenity -

Fine and Dandy -

Have You Met Miss Jones? -

Rearin' Back Prestige 45-409, PR 7449, PRCD 24172-2

So Easy -

* Smokin' with the Chet Baker Quintet (Prestige PR 7449)

*

Chet Baker Quintet

same personnel

NYC, August 23, 25 & 29, 1965

Madison Avenue Prestige PR 7460, PRCD 24172-2

Lonely Star -

Wee, Too -

Tan Gaugin -

Cherokee Prestige PR 7460, PRCD 24173-2

Bevan Beeps -

* Groovin' with the Chet Baker Quintet (Prestige PR 7460)

Chet Baker Quintet

same personnel

NYC, August 23, 25 & 29, 1965

Comin' On Prestige PR 7478, PRCD 24173-2

Stairway to the Stars -

No Fair Lady -

When You're Gone -

Choose Now -

Chabootie -

Carpsie's Groove -

* Comin' on with the Chet Baker Quintet (Prestige PR 7478)

same personnel

NYC, August 23, 25 & 29, 1965

Hurry Prestige PR 7496, PRCD 24174-2

I Waited for You Prestige PR 7496, PRCD 24173-2

The 490 -

Cut Plug Prestige PR 7496, PRCD 24174-2

Boudoir -

Etude in Three -

Sleeping Susan -

* Cool Burnin' with the Chet Baker Quintet (Prestige PR 7496)

*

Chet Baker Quintet

same personnel

NYC, August 23, 25 & 29, 1965

Go-Go Prestige PR 7512, PRCD 24174-2

Lament for the Living -

Pot Luck -

Bud's Blues -

Romas -

On a Misty Night

[mikeweil]

Cortazar's story is fabulous indeed - recommended reading for everybody here!

Yeah, but he deserves to be remembered even more for his novels etc.!

Julio Cortázar

[Niko]

having recently read but since lost somewhere de Valk's book on Baker: Baker actually stayed with Dameron after he came back and Dameron made the connection to Carpenter... Carpenter recorded IIRC two more albums with Baker which also have Dameron compositions on them one with Frank Strozier... he just didn't sell those to Prestige which makes them less visible... (shouldn't think this way BUT it's a pity Carpenter didn't have a reason to force Dameron to play piano on those dates as well...) Other Dameron compositions on the five LPs are So Easy, Lament for the Living and Romas... the major mystery to me is, who wrote those more then ten tunes which are credited to Carpenter/Bruce... asked this on the Chet Baker mailing list some time ago and got as an answer that Bruce is singer Gladys Bruce who probably didn't write much more of those than Carpenter himself...) (easier to answer is who wrote the carpenter/stitt tunes ) Strangely enough none of the five liner notes writers named any composer in conjunction with these compositions; (unfortunately don't have them with me but it is unusual to read "... is a nice and brisk line with extended solos from ..." without the composer of the first ... being named) (only Bob Porter mentions Carpenter; he writes that Carpenter is best known as the Composer of Walkin' and that he supplied most of the originals... maybe I am overinterpreting this but being known as the composer of ... and being the composer of ... are two different things and Beethoven did not supply his symphonies, he wrote them... don't know whether Porter wants to point that out)

Plus another for Cortazar

A modification to my post above about Richard Carpenter's role as producer of that three-day, five-LP 1965 Chet Baker recording session for Prestige. At the time Carpenter was Tadd Dameron's manager, which accounts for the presence of a number of Dameron tunes on the session (not that Baker was averse to Dameron's music -- and as someone once said, even if Carpenter's motives were wholly or in large part mercenary on his own behalf, they were fine compositions). Don't have the albums myself (though I once had at least two of them), but I know that "Bevan Beeps," "Choose Now," "The 490," and "On a Misty Night," are all Dameron pieces, and think that there several more here as well.

edit: to shorten quote and to add that the bit I wrote about two more albums and strozier seems to be somewhat wrong... at least looks like it after a short google search

Edited August 21, 2006 by Niko