Cliff Englewood Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Just got this one recently, on some dodgy Label, I like it, but would like to know if anyone out there has definitive information on it, i.e. when and where was it recorded and, the real question, is it Patton or Young? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Just got this one recently, on some dodgy Label, I like it, but would like to know if anyone out there has definitive information on it, i.e. when and where was it recorded and, the real question, is it Patton or Young? There is another thread on this topic, and the answer (indirectly from Big John Patton) is that it is Larry Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Not only is it Larry Young, it's also John McLaughlin & Tony Williams! They called it "Iron City" instead of Lifetime due to contractual obligations. At least, that's what I read on AMG once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Sorry, I feel like lying today. Must be that time of the week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybleaden Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 that will teach me to read all the posts without running off downstairs to find the cd.....or thinking We will get you back for that one........grrrrrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Seriously, our own Soul Stream reports that Patton himself declared to him that it was Young on this album. AFAIC, that seals the deal. Now the real mystery is this - wtf is up w/the opening to "Work Song"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Mike Fitzgerald also had some problems with the intro to 'Work Song'. He thought a bar or two were missing, but I don't think so. It's definitely screwed up the way he does it, but I counted and the meter seems right. He just plays the head 'funny' the first time around. Sort of like he does with 'Oleo'. I could be wrong, but I think it's complete. Dig the way Patton/Young gets into the 'Love Supreme' vamp on 'Old Man Moses'. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 I don't know if I had said this before on this topic. But I also asked Ben Dixon, the only remaining survivor of the session who played organ just to get his recollection. "Larry Young!....Patton couldn't play like that!" At the time, I kind of took his statement as a slight slam on Big John, but....in retrospect I don't think he meant it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Not only is Larry Young the organ player but "Old Man Moses" is actually the spiritual "Go Down Moses". Grant Green has another version of this song on FEELIN' THE SPIRIT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 (edited) Yeah, I knew that - they were loose with the title as well as the personnel listing. It was in a conversation with Dixon that I first got the inkling that Larry was the organist. He said something like: 'Someone needs to talk to [big] John - I think it sounds like Larry Young'. Note that he did not say: 'I remember this date very well - it was Larry Young, not John Patton'. Bill Heid remembered that it was recorded in Pittsburgh (hence the title). He was categoric that it was Patton, not Young. And Heid knows his organists! Go figure... Bertrand. Edited August 10, 2006 by bertrand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Yeah, I knew that - they were loose with the title as well as the personnel listing. It was in a conversation with Dixon that I first got the inkling that Larry was the organist. He said something like: 'Someone needs to talk to [big] John - I think it sounds like Larry Young'. Note that he did not say: 'I remember this date very well - it was Larry Young, not John Patton'. Bill Heid remembered that it was recorded in Pittsburgh (hence the title). He was categoric that it was Patton, not Young. And Heid knows his organists! Go figure... Bertrand. Yeah, I guess this controversy will continue on for all time. That said, as much as I respect Bill Heid as a Young dicsiple....I can't imagine he would listen to that recording and say it was Patton. Especially given that the albums Big John made before and after that session bear no resembleance at all to the playing on Iron City. John told me it wasn't him, and I think for anyone who knows Big John's playing on a musical level, they would quickly identify that. The best evidence we have is our ears I think at this point. That's why Bill Heid's take is surprising to me as he's obviously an expert on Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 I was very surprised as well! All I know is, I put it in my Larry Young playlist in iTunes, not Big John Patton! Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 (edited) OK, I know we rehash this thing about once every two years or so on these boards. And in between times, I always forget the details. How did Patton's name get on this date in the first place?? Assuming it is Young, what happened? What's the back-story (again, probably, sorry) - ?? PS: My recent (2003) Savoy issue doesn't have a recording date (or none that jumped out at me just now when I looked). Do we even know these details? - or is this one of those dates we're luckly to pin down to just the year it was recorded? Edited August 11, 2006 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 I think 1965 was suggested as a recording year. I forget why. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 I WISH *ALL* ORGAN RECORDS LISTED BIG JOHN PATTON ON THEM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 I smell a photo-shop fest coming on. Couw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 i wonder if BJP cashed the checks?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 i wonder if BJP cashed the checks?? BJP didn't pen any of the tunes, so would there have been checks over the years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 i wonder if BJP cashed the checks?? BJP didn't pen any of the tunes, so would there have been checks over the years? That's interesting. The title track doesn't have any writer listed. You'd expect at least that one of the three musicians' name would appear, particularly since it was titled because of having been recorded in Pittsburgh. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Plus it was used in a commercial (I forgot the product, probably a car). Maybe they used it BECAUSE they thought it was P.D. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 I WISH *ALL* ORGAN RECORDS LISTED BIG JOHN PATTON ON THEM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 I WISH *ALL* ORGAN RECORDS LISTED BIG JOHN PATTON ON THEM MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 I WISH *ALL* ORGAN RECORDS LISTED BIG JOHN PATTON ON THEM Up for a challenge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 That face needs changing, if you get my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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