Do classical musicians get tired of playing chestnuts?

[ejp626]

I know there are many complaints from jazz musicians tired of playing standards or the same numbers over and over. Artie Shaw allegedy quitting over Begin the Beguine is a prime example. Some simply feel that playing in front of audiences is worth it, even if the material isn't so great.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had insight into how classical musicians feel over this. This is sparked by a few concerts I have been to in the last few years. A "pops" concert in Portland, OR, where I felt sorry for the orchestra, since it didn't appear to me from looking at their concerts for the year that they ever had a chance to play challenging pieces. I'm generally pretty snobbish about classical pops concerts, though perhaps interleaved with other things, it might not be so bad.

This summer I was in Vienna, and had a chance to listen to a big orchestra play the "hits" of Mozart and Strauss (a movement here and there but no entire pieces). So this was marginally better than a "pops" concert, but still not great. It looked like the orchestra played the same set list over and over through the whole summer. There is a lingering feeling, captured in the guidebooks, that the orchestra members largely are going through the motions. In the end, I ended up going to a smaller concert where a quartet played 3 complete pieces, including Mozart's Dissonance Quartet. I looked over other programs, and it was somewhat varied, though quite Mozart-heavy as one would expect.

Finally, I was in Prague and had a chance to see a large orchestra play Dvorak's Symphony 9. Movements 1 and 3 seemed a bit fast, but 2 and 4 were terrific. Anyway, it looked like they had some variety, but played Symphony 9 about once a week.

So I guess I was thinking this was a mixed blessing. The tourism industry is keeping loads of musicians in Europe occupied, but at the price of playing the same pieces over and over (it is striking how different this is from London or New York or Chicago where the various orchestra's seasons are geared towards locals and have a reasonable amount of variety within any given season). My personal preference is away from the "hits," so I would be doubly disappointed if I was in the Vienna orchestra. But do classical musicians feel this way, or do they know going into the profession that they will have trouble finding work and that a steady job is better than variety. And perhaps it isn't really an issue. Maybe individual creativity and variety-seeking is not relevant for classical musicians, and job satisfaction comes from making the ensemble sound good. Or maybe it is a combination, where people don't think it is an issue when they start out, then get jaded and tired of the repertoire after many years.

I only knew a handful of classical musicians starting out, so just thought I would throw this out there for comments.

Edited August 7, 2006 by ejp626

[DukeCity]

There's the old joke:

Q: How do you get a musician to complain?

A: Give him a gig.

Yeah, classical musicians bitch about playing the chestnuts, especially when dealing with orchestral players. I think the issue is different when working in the arena of solo literature. A classical musician has more of an opportunity for self-expression, and playing "in the moment" when performing as a soloist, or as a member of a smaller chamber group, where issues of phrasing, dynamics, etc. can turn on a dime and one can really changes things up from performance to performance. If you're just sawing away on your part in the middle of the 2nd violin section on another performance of Beethoven V, there's not a whole lot of leeway.

However, I also think that those issues change with the level of musicians involved. Taking the discussion back to the realm of jazz, you can sometimes hear guys complaining about playing a tune like "Stella By Starlight" or "Autumn Leaves" or "All the Things You Are". But those are often the guys who can't come up with any new ideas to play on those tunes. Nothing is stopping them from playing anything fresh or creative, except their own lack of freshness and creativity. Same could be said for classical musicians.

Also, in the jazz (or commercial music) world, you are asked to play the chestnuts every night. An orchestra might work its way through the Beethoven symphonies every few seasons, but Artie Shaw had to Begin the Beguine at pretty much every show. Ask Free For All about how often he had to do Woodchopper's Ball!

One last thought: While the vast majority of classical musicians have to work to cobble together a livable wage, in the major orchestras (Chicago, Philly, NY, LA etc) those guys are doing OK financially. So when I know that a guy is making $100K, I don't feel too bad for him when he complains about having to pound out another performance of the Nutcracker.

Edited August 8, 2006 by DukeCity

[Alexander]

A good friend of mine is a double bassist with a big "classical" orchestra. She has complained about performing the "canon." However, the thing she REALLY dislikes is doing pops concerts. I know that she's begged out of doing them on more than one occasion (since they don't need a full bass section for pops concerts).

[Alexander]

One last thought: While the vast majority of classical musicians have to work to cobble together a livable wage...

Yeah, my friend has had to play for up to three different orchestras at a time to get by (plus she teaches). I remember when she was playing for orchestras in Rochester, Buffalo, and (I think) Pittsburgh. She puts a lot of miles on her car...

[ejp626]

Also, in the jazz (or commercial music) world, you are asked to play the chestnuts every night. An orchestra might work its way through the Beethoven symphonies every few seasons, but Artie Shaw had to Begin the Beguine at pretty much every show. Ask Free For All about how often he had to do Woodchopper's Ball!

Well, I basically agree with you, but I was pretty startled at how much repetition there was for these orchestras in Prague and Vienna, with this year even more Mozart-heavy than normal (if that is possible) and the same pieces repeated at least weekly, and sometimes daily. On the other hand, it was a very steady gig throughout the summer.

Eric

[Jim Alfredson]

A good friend of mine is a double bassist with a big "classical" orchestra. She has complained about performing the "canon." However, the thing she REALLY dislikes is doing pops concerts. I know that she's begged out of doing them on more than one occasion (since they don't need a full bass section for pops concerts).

I don't blame her. We "opened" for a Grand Rapids pops concert two nights in a row a few weeks ago and the audience was totally lame. It was obviously a social event, a meet-and-greet, and the music was completely secondary to the occasion.

[DukeCity]

Well, I basically agree with you, but I was pretty startled at how much repetition there was for these orchestras in Prague and Vienna, with this year even more Mozart-heavy than normal (if that is possible) and the same pieces repeated at least weekly, and sometimes daily. On the other hand, it was a very steady gig throughout the summer.

Eric

Yeah, that would be pretty brutal. But as you point out, they're playing for a constantly changing audience of tourists. In my mind, that puts it in the realm of commercial work, even though the material is usually thought of as classical/art music. It's more like a buddy of mine who plays tenor in the Les Brown Orchestra in residence at a theater in Branson, MO. Daily shows for busloads of tourists, so even when the band is swinging, they're still cranking out another performance of Leap Frog!

[Rooster_Ties]

Well, FWIW - I can tell you as a 10-year professional symphony chorus member, that I've sang Carmina Burana in about 12 or 13 different productions (going back to when I first sang it in college).

I'm not always tired of singing it, but any time I have to sing it more than three times in any two-year period -- it does really start to wear on me. Went three years WITHOUT singing it once a few years back -- and then the next time I enjoyed singing it again far more than I ever expected too. Like wearing an old coat that's been hanging in the closet for years. (And the good thing about war-horses is that you don't have to rehearse them to death.)

[GregN]

There's the old joke:

Q: How do you get a musician to complain?

A: Give him a gig.

You have no idea how funny that is to me right now.