"2 LPs on 1 CD" sets that should've been

[Noj]

Love that Ashby album! Her version of "Feeling Good" is niiiiiice.

[mikeweil]

Back to the original topic:

A good pair that fits on one CD are the two Prestige LPs by Herbie Mann and Bobby Jaspar, Flute Flight & Flute Soufflé.

Agree on the mess with the Prestige McLean LPs, but this happened to a lot of material, especially when it came from the 10" LP era. Monk's sessions are a case in point, and I hate to see them RVG'd in the same scattered compilations. Concord's Cuscuna has yet to be found! Fantasy was pretty inconsistent about completing sessions - sometimes they did, sometimes not.

[Kyo]

Agree on the mess with the Prestige McLean LPs,

Which reminds me - I'm gonna grab all those Mal Waldron quartet tracks

from emusic later this month and burn me a disc with the complete session.

but this happened to a lot of material, especially when it came from the 10" LP era. Monk's sessions are a case in point, and I hate to see them RVG'd in the same scattered compilations. Concord's Cuscuna has yet to be found! Fantasy was pretty inconsistent about completing sessions - sometimes they did, sometimes not.

I see your point but as long as they keep that "Complete Prestige Recordings" Monk set in

print I think there's nothing wrong with individual reissues that stick to the "classic LP" content.

It's just that I wouldn't buy any of that.

Edited August 19, 2006 by Kyo

[mikeweil]

but this happened to a lot of material, especially when it came from the 10" LP era. Monk's sessions are a case in point, and I hate to see them RVG'd in the same scattered compilations. Concord's Cuscuna has yet to be found! Fantasy was pretty inconsistent about completing sessions - sometimes they did, sometimes not.

I see your point but as long as they keep that "Complete Prestige Recordings" Monk set in

print I think there's nothing wrong with individual reissues that stick to the "classic LP" content.

It's just that I wouldn't buy any of that.

Not even on the Monk box they managed to present the tracks in session order!

[Kyo]

Not even on the Monk box they managed to present the tracks in session order!

The order of the sessions is correct.

Or do you mean the order of the tracks within the sessions? Why would that matter?

[mikeweil]

Not even on the Monk box they managed to present the tracks in session order!

The order of the sessions is correct.

Or do you mean the order of the tracks within the sessions? Why would that matter?

Yes I mean the order in which the tracks were recorded at the sessions. It is different from the order in which they presented the tracks within that box set.

Yes it does matter: Compare recording order with any other and you will notice a different flow of energy. It can be compared to that of a live performance. I compared them many times and almosr always liked the pace of the original recording order better.

And within complete recordings box sets, chronological order within sessions is the standard.

Edited August 19, 2006 by mikeweil

[Kyo]

Yes it does matter: Compare recording order with any other and you will notice a different flow of energy. It can be compared to that of a live performamnce.

I don't buy that. Unless you get ALL the bad takes, there is no "flow".

You might think "they were on a roll" after hearing two really fast and

great master takes in a row but never know about a full hour of the

band trying to get some other tune right inbetween those takes.

[Harold_Z]

Interesting opinions from Kyo and Mikeweil.

I find myself usually fine with discographical order, but with some material I cull favorites onto a compilation cd, particularly if there are a lot of alternate takes. It's very subjective.

On some material that I am very familiar with over a long period of time where I listened to it on vinyl, I find myself missing the lp order and I sometimes recreate the lps onto cdr, trying for the best sound sources. Two I recently did that with were Bud Freeman's "Comes Jazz" and "Wolverine Jazz".

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'm with Kyo on this.

In any event, I prefer the original LPs to be reissued in the original LP running order. Even if, as sometimes happened, and more frequently with Prestige, they mucked things up. But I have a much more "audience-centered" approach to music than many people and, consequently, prefer the way the artist (to the extent that they're involved) and record company chose to present the recordings to the public.

MG

[mikeweil]

I doubt that the artists always were invloved in establishing a track sequence. Furthermore, tracking characteristics made it difficult to place a ballad at the beginning of an LP side - as a vinyl specialist for the explanation.

Of course it's a matter of taste - still I think it has a lot to do with nostalgic feelings that most prefer the order of the tracks they first encountered.

Edited August 20, 2006 by mikeweil

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I doubt that the artists always were invloved in establishing a track sequence.

I expect it was fairly infrequent, but perhaps not negligible. Certainly ESP artists would have had a determining role. And I find it hard to believe that people like Mingus, Trane, MJQ, Ellington and Monk wouldn't have had a view which they would not have been shy about putting forward - and producers who would listen.

Furthermore, tracking characteristics made it difficult to place a ballad at the beginning of an LP side - as a vinyl specialist for the explanation.

How would BN or PR have got on with albums like "Blue & sentimental", "Heavy soul", and all those Moodsvilles? Black & Blue's "Midnight Slows", as well?

I don't understand the technical issue here, I must say.

Of course it's a matter of taste - still I think it has a lot to do with nostalgic feelings that most prefer the order of the tracks they first encountered.

Maybe, though it isn't the case if the CD is one's first encounter with an album, which it is for me in many cases, and I expect quite a lot of people younger than me.

MG

Edited August 20, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[mikeweil]

Furthermore, tracking characteristics made it difficult to place a ballad at the beginning of an LP side - as a vinyl specialist for the explanation.

How would BN or PR have got on with albums like "Blue & sentimental", "Heavy soul", and all those Moodsvilles? Black & Blue's "Midnight Slows", as well?

I don't understand the technical issue here, I must say.

I'll ask my friend when I'm back home and report here.

[Big Al]

How about an issue of HANK MOBLEY QUARTET (BLP 5066) and HANK MOBLEY ALL-STARS (BLP 1544)? Same lineup on both albums, with the addition of Milt Jackson on ALL-STARS. All of the alts from QUARTET would fit as well (this I did from the Mosaic. nice combination of sessions, IMHO).

It'd be nice if Bill Evans MOON BEAMS and HOW MY HEART SINGS could fit on one disc. You'd have to remove one song from one of the albums, and it just ain't worth that.

Too bad Fantasy didn't make more Vince Guaraldi two-fers like they did with Cal Tjader's albums (IN PERSON and LATIN SIDE OF... would've been nice, as it's basically the same lineup). For that matter, I wish Fantasy had combined MAMBO WITH TJADER and TJADER PLAYS MAMBO on one disc.

[mikeweil]

How about an issue of HANK MOBLEY QUARTET (BLP 5066) and HANK MOBLEY ALL-STARS (BLP 1544)? Same lineup on both albums, with the addition of Milt Jackson on ALL-STARS. All of the alts from QUARTET would fit as well (this I did from the Mosaic. nice combination of sessions, IMHO).

That's one I though of many years ago, for the exact same reasons, and because both were not on CD in the US. Then came the Mosaic box.

Too bad Fantasy didn't make more Vince Guaraldi two-fers like they did with Cal Tjader's albums (IN PERSON and LATIN SIDE OF... would've been nice, as it's basically the same lineup). For that matter, I wish Fantasy had combined MAMBO WITH TJADER and TJADER PLAYS MAMBO on one disc.

They combined two Guaraldi LPs with Bola Sete.

As far as the Tjaders are concerned: Many of the early LPs are such a mixup that they have to be re-compiled to complete and combine sessions in a way that makes sense.

[Kyo]

After all the Collectables bashing I must give them props for getting it right at least once:

Elvin Jones' consecutive albums "And Then Again" and "Midnight Walk" on one CD. All tracks present.

Got it last week. I must admit I haven't really listened to it yet, but it seems like a good combo to me.

[David Ayers]

Of course it's a matter of taste - still I think it has a lot to do with nostalgic feelings that most prefer the order of the tracks they first encountered.

Well, yes there is that, but since recording order did not correspond to live set order, issues of key and tempo which would be considered for a gig can be ignored in the studio in the knowledge they will be sorted out at a later stage. And elements of the track sequence may have been planned even before starting the recording session. Restoring recording order can spoil the effect.

[Ken Dryden]

I was disappointed when Fantasy compiled two Jaki Byard Prestige LPs, Solo and Jaki Byard With Strings, on one CD. Not only did they delete one of the solo tracks ("Hello, Young Lovers") but they also intermingled tracks from the two sessions, messing up the flow of both sessions.

[Hot Ptah]

Here's two good ones:

"Joe's Hap'nin's"--Joe Newman, and "Mr.Allen"--Henry "Red" Allen,

together on the reissue "The Hot Trumpets of Joe Newman and Henry 'Red' Allen"

"Yes, Indeed!"--Buddy Tate and Claude Hopkins, and "Tate A Tate"--Buddy Tate

together on the reissue "Buddy and Claude"

Both very highly recommended!

Edited August 28, 2006 by Hot Ptah

[Big Al]

How about a 2-fer of Tina Brooks' TRUE BLUE and Freddie Hubbard's OPEN SESAME. Same front line, and I think Sam Jones is on both dates, which were only a week apart.

[mikeweil]

Of course it's a matter of taste - still I think it has a lot to do with nostalgic feelings that most prefer the order of the tracks they first encountered.

Well, yes there is that, but since recording order did not correspond to live set order, issues of key and tempo which would be considered for a gig can be ignored in the studio in the knowledge they will be sorted out at a later stage. And elements of the track sequence may have been planned even before starting the recording session. Restoring recording order can spoil the effect.

I hear you - the ultimate solution would be a listing of the order not chosen to use one's programming keys ....

[Big Al]

Listening to another Mobley coulda-been: THIRD SEASON and A SLICE OF THE TOP. Both have Lee Morgan, James Spaulding, and Billy Higgins; and the style of the two sessions is quite similar.

[BruceH]

How about an issue of HANK MOBLEY QUARTET (BLP 5066) and HANK MOBLEY ALL-STARS (BLP 1544)? Same lineup on both albums, with the addition of Milt Jackson on ALL-STARS. All of the alts from QUARTET would fit as well (this I did from the Mosaic. nice combination of sessions, IMHO).

Excellent idea. Even with the Mobley Mosaic in my collection, I'd probably buy such a disc if the packaging seemed nice enough. (Examples of good packaging? The entire West Coast Classics series, The Transition Sessions double-CD, etc.)

Edited September 22, 2006 by BruceH