Internet behavior

[fasstrack]

This is too funny:

http://jazzcornertalk.com/

(go to the thread about Tarik Shah, an old acquaintence now in jail pursuant to the Patriot Act).

(Spoken in voice of Zero Mostel in 'The Producers movie') How do they find me? It must be me. I should see them coming and head 'em off at the pass by not responding. I admit I say edgy things, but jeez do I bring out the wingnuts.....

Edited August 1, 2006 by fasstrack

[7/4]

This is too funny:

http://jazzcornertalk.com/

(go to the thread about Tarik Shah, an old acquaintence now in jail pursuant to the Patriot Act).

(Spoken in voice of Zero Mostel in 'The Producers movie') How do they find me? It must be me. I should see them coming and head 'em off at the pass by not responding. I admit I say edgy things, but jeez do I bring out the wingnuts.....

BTW. the NSA was just here looking for you.

[fasstrack]

This is too funny:

http://jazzcornertalk.com/

(go to the thread about Tarik Shah, an old acquaintence now in jail pursuant to the Patriot Act).

(Spoken in voice of Zero Mostel in 'The Producers movie') How do they find me? It must be me. I should see them coming and head 'em off at the pass by not responding. I admit I say edgy things, but jeez do I bring out the wingnuts.....

BTW. the NSA was just here looking for you.

Thanks, guys for letting me be a dick and realizing I'm usually only kidding.

On the serious tip, this guy Tarik is in some very deep water. In jail 14 months for the 'crime' of talking too much, the Bush/Cheney/Rummy crowd are determined to keep him in stir as an 'example' for a long time to come. Maybe a thread should be started here since people are a lot cooler than on JC.

Yo, Jimmy, Joe, et. al IS THIS THE BADDEST JAZZ FORUM ON THE WEB OR FRICKIN' WHAT? CAN I GET AN AMEN, SOMEBODY?

Shit, i think the heat is getting to me.....

[Jazzmoose]

Three messages that someone sent me for the holidays:

YOU MOTHERFUCKING PIECE OF SHIT.

WHAT A MOTHERFUCKING ASS-WHIPE.

YOU THINK I GIVE A SHIT WHAT YOU

THINK, YOU MOTHERFUCKING COCKSUCKING

PIECE OF CONTEMPTIBLE SHIT????

You know who you are, don't act so holy.

He got even more angry when I suggested that he attend anger management classes. Moron can't even spell wipe.

How DARE you call me a moron!!

[Jazzmoose]

Oh wait; I sent that one to Conn. Never mind...

[connoisseur series500]

Oh wait; I sent that one to Conn. Never mind...

[fasstrack]

Is there gonna be a fight here, or are y'all just having fun? Because I don't have the stomach for fights. I'm sort of a de facto paper lion. I make strong statements then when it gets heavy I say 'oh shit, what did I do? Who needs this?'

I am fascinated by human behavior and the web is as good a place as any to sort of parse it, but I really like playing more. Music and friendship have always gone together for me. They are salve and a salvation.

What the hell did I start here? Not a war, I hope. tell me you're joking, guys.

[7/4]

Is there gonna be a fight here, or are y'all just having fun? Because I don't have the stomach for fights. I'm sort of a de facto paper lion. I make strong statements then when it gets heavy I say 'oh shit, what did I do? Who needs this?'

I am fascinated by human behavior and the web is as good a place as any to sort of parse it, but I really like playing more. Music and friendship have always gone together for me. They are salve and a salvation.

What the hell did I start here? Not a war, I hope. tell me you're joking, guys.

I'll grab him from behind and you guys start tickling him.

[fasstrack]

Is there gonna be a fight here, or are y'all just having fun? Because I don't have the stomach for fights. I'm sort of a de facto paper lion. I make strong statements then when it gets heavy I say 'oh shit, what did I do? Who needs this?'

I am fascinated by human behavior and the web is as good a place as any to sort of parse it, but I really like playing more. Music and friendship have always gone together for me. They are salve and a salvation.

What the hell did I start here? Not a war, I hope. tell me you're joking, guys.

I'll grab him from behind and you guys start tickling him.

[Jazzmoose]

Is there gonna be a fight here, or are y'all just having fun? Because I don't have the stomach for fights.

Wish I could say that, but I've let myself go; I've got enough stomach for anything...

[fasstrack]

I have had nasty online exchanges that eventually did u-turns. It's always nice when that happens.

As to what it is that makes people show their fangs online, I think two major factors are anonymity and the fact that there is no physical contact--these circumstances easily turn cowards into pixel slinging bullies.

Years ago, when I was in broadcasting, the station and individual on-air people regularly received extremely nasty letters from listeners who--for one reason or another--needed to vent. These letters and cards almost never bore a name or an address. We used to refer to them as crank letters and we took them in stride--it was par for the course. Some writers were regulars and the content of their mail was very reminiscent of the kind of thing we are seeing on the internet--that cry for attention that we call "trolling." Like radio, computers seem to have been invented for the loner who sees the outside world as his/her masked ball. Exceedingly shy people (and I used to be one of them) often become comedians--psychiatrists probably have a name and explanation for that, I just have the personal experience. I still become very nervous when called upon to appear before an audience, whether it is for a book reading or to give a talk, or even just to perform an introduction. All that reserve was instantly wiped away when I was alone in a radio studio, doing my thing. The difference, of course, was that I could not see my audience, that I did not know whether I was entertaining people or making them reach for that dial. I see a parallel between that and the anonymity inherent in online board activity.

Now, like Joel, I have never hidden behind a handle. True, most people don't automatically link "Chris A" to Chris Albertson, but board regulars don't have to Google to find my identity. So, when I express a controversial or unpopular opinion, I am not hiding behind a pseudonym. People who have seen my posts through the years know that I am often critical of people who mask themselves on line, but only if they launch personal attacks from behind a handle. I think that it is a cowardly thing to do, because whatever is said probably would not have been said if the confrontation was face to face. Other than that, I am okay with cyber IDs.

Let me say here that I am as guilty as the next poster when it comes to lashing out (witness my ongoing exchange with Conrad), but I try to keep it somewhat civil. I have been called all kinds of names by other posters, but rarely do I think the mutual antagonism is irreparable. As you point out, Joel, PMs can work wonders. I think that points to a major reason why two posters, essentially strangers, sometimes find themselves at each other's throat. In our case, we are brought together by a common interest in jazz. All jazz not being the same, our likes and dislikes differ, so we have that as a potential basis for argument, but rarely do I see people erupting over the merits of Bechet versus Ayler (although that could happen)--no, we get into heated, escalating arguments over the very same subjects that have started bar brawls through the centuries: religion and politics.

The bar brawls are usually fueled by alcohol and the participants are often people who have a tendency to get physical or become verbally abusive. Many of us, the very same people who fly off the handle on these boards, would never attract the attention of a bouncer. However, we are quick to misconstrue the words of a poster about whom we really know nothing. That, I firmly believe, is the problem--we have only limited knowledge of each other outside of that which can be gained from the board. Familiarity breeds contempt, they say, but it can also prevent it from surfacing. Posters who have met in person are not as likely to engage in embarrassing exchanges--sure, they might disagree, but politely. If I know you very well, chances are that I will also know and understand why your view opposes mine.

I don't know if I have made any sense, but I do know that I have rambled on unmercifully, and, for that, I apologize.

This came up in a search for that Mad thread. Reading it it was pretty interesting to look back at. One slight correction to Chris: at the time I meant that I had tried to reach out to people with olive branches w/PMs--and it did work. (That's how I got friendly w/Mr. Crouch---I know he's not your favorite). Other times I was nasty and pissy in PMs--and the person on the receiving end was so indignant or nuts or both they violated my trust and made the note public. I find that ncredibly vindicative and immature and there's no excuse for it.

These days I just don't get that involved. But I have learned that, like anything in life, you get back what you put out. An intense, opinionated, angry poster will have it returned in kind---or double. I'm not talking about cyberbullies going after people making themselves targets, that's different. I mean the way you come off will bring people out. One word---good or bad---leads to another.

Edited June 14, 2012 by fasstrack

[AfricaBrass]

I'm glad this thread was brought back from the dead. I was talking about this subject this morning. I appreciate the internet but I have lost my enthusiasm for interaction with others on it. I am grateful for some of the great friends I've met on the web, yet I am disappointed by most. I feel extremely alienated from people these days. It seems as if the lack of tact that is a normal on the internet has crept out into the real world. I'm disgusted at the things I often hear others say. It feels a bit like bizarro world to me. I've lost faith in people. I'm not enjoying the 21st century very much. lol

Edited June 15, 2012 by AfricaBrass

[David Ayers]

I'm glad this thread was brought back from the dead. I was talking about this subject this morning. I appreciate the internet but I have lost my enthusiasm for interaction with others on it. I am grateful for some of the great friends I've met on the web, yet I am disappointed by most. I feel extremely alienated from people these days. It seems as if the lack of tact that is a normal on the internet has crept out into the real world. I'm disgusted at the things I often hear others say. It feels a bit like bizarro world to me. I've lost faith in people. I'm not enjoying the 21st century very much. lol

I'm pretty sure the 22nd Century will be better - so hang on in there...

[fasstrack]

It's what I was trying to talk about some months ago (in a thread called The White Death-about the earbud/gadget zombies that have taken over my fair city) and caught a lot of heat for the way I said it. The world of gadgetry and pixels has its conveniences and charms-but in the end it's a fake world of self-absorption/self-justification. You can bet the people that have no tact or manners in cyberspace are the same ones that ride bikes and jog on the sidewalk w/earbuds dangling in arrogance or staring at an idiot device as they unrepentantly walk into you. They are selfish cretins and make me ill and ashamed of the (in)human race. I wish they all would go away and decent beings would have the world back. But of course it'll never happen. The idiots and sheep will always rule, more so the cynic whores who exlpoit and invest in stupidity for a dollar. It's what was meant by 'All is vanity'-the first line of the book of Ecclesiastes (sp?) and the prophets were nothing if not prescient.

Edited June 16, 2012 by fasstrack

[cih]

I agree - "If the earth were covered in lice, like grains of sand upon the sea shore, the human race would be annihilated - stricken with terrible grief. What a sight! And I, with angel's wings, motionless in the air to view it!

just kidding -

actually, it's nothing new I think - at college in the eighties I had a lecturer who kept a pair of scissors on his desk to snip the cables of student's walkmans if they wore them while he was talking. And instead of texting etc - people used to concentrate on their pocket calculators (writing BOOBS and SHELLOIL upside-down). The trouble with iphones is the googling, and showing you apps that distort your face or detect spirits near you. They should put the wires back on them so people can't wander around with them

[David Ayers]

Sigh. I wish I was an ageing alcoholic. Then I too would know how this world goes.

[fasstrack]

Rereading Chris's post of 6 years ago I'm struck by his comment towards the end re how igoorance of each other only serves to fan the flames of intolerance and animosity. It's the root of our problems, for a large and egregious example, with the Muslim world. We tend to demonize, isolate, and stick with our own kind.

And governments don't exactly help: I remember not all that long ago a radio show with Israeli guests-Jews and Palestinians trying to promote peace. They were saying how they were catching hell from their respective political leaders who seemed way more invested in war. I don't want to be seen as only a complainer, but ultimately a seeker of solutions. Pointing out the problems is just the beginning-if you stay mired in that people have the right to call you a whiner or a do-nothing. I think forums like this ond can really bring people together, a good thing.

Personally that's why I got into the music over writing and visual art or drama, which I found I had ability at as a youngster: it has thithis magical ability to show the commonality of people. I think the Internet has all kinds of potential, despite the current level of self-absorption of many of its users. Only a fool or an ostrich hides from or denies the sun. We just need to evolve.

Edited June 16, 2012 by fasstrack

[cih]

I guess the fact that repressive regimes are so keen on restricting access to the net, indicates that it brings people together (or offers alternatives). As with music, or the arts...

Edited June 15, 2012 by cih

[fasstrack]

Very true. I've thought lately of visiting China, since the nouveau riche might be more amenacle to our kind of music (and to study their music traditions). If this ever happened I know it would not be like going to Holland was. I'd be carefully vetted before they even let me in. And I seriously doubt I'd have access to this site. We do tend to take certain freedoms for granted here. Sort of arrogant too...

[Jazzmoose]

A little late, I know, but we were joking. And that's my story until they find the bodies...

[Big Al]

8

Very true. I've thought lately of visiting China, since the nouveau riche might be more amenacle to our kind of music (and to study their music traditions). If this ever happened I know it would not be like going to Holland was. I'd be carefully vetted before they even let me in. And I seriously doubt I'd have access to this site. We do tend to take certain freedoms for granted here. Sort of arrogant too...

I've visited China. Beautiful country. Everyone should experience it. BUT, you have not known oppressive regimes until you leave your hotel room fearing for your life because of an offhand remark made to your daughter back home in America. Or had access to your travel blog restricted because you posted a picture poking fun at the Chinese govt.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Big Al

[7/4]

Sigh. I wish I was an ageing alcoholic. Then I too would know how this world goes.

[fasstrack]

I've visited China. Beautiful country. Everyone should experience it. BUT, you have not known oppressive regimes until you leave your hotel room fearing for your life because of an offhand remark made to your daughter back home in America. Or had access to your travel blog restricted because you posted a picture poking fun at the Chinese govt.

Sad.

Sigh. I wish I was an ageing alcoholic. Then I too would know how this world goes.

No time like the present............

[Dave James]

My pet peeve is schools without the balls to manage their student's use of cell phones and iPods. It's like they're in violation of the 1st amendment if they tell kids to leave he gizmos at home or at the very least, turn them off when they're in class.

With respect to internet decorum, I'm pretty easy going. I can think of maybe one or two times when I've gotten confrontational and then only because some yahoo had crossed the line too many times and just kept pushing. Like Popeye, you get to the point where that's all you can stands and you can't stands no more. 99.9% of the time it's just best to ignore assholes. They're generally attention junkies who thrive on acknowledgement, negative or otherwise...like it somehow justifies their existence.

[A Lark Ascending]

My pet peeve is schools without the balls to manage their student's use of cell phones and iPods. It's like they're in violation of the 1st amendment if they tell kids to leave he gizmos at home or at the very least, turn them off when they're in class.

You'd be amazed how many parents get uppity - 'she's got to have it on; her granny's not well.' The kids cannot comprehend a world where instant communication did not exist - 'I've got to have it on...what if there's an emergency?'

Some UK schools ban them. My school works on the principal that this is real life (and they can be used creatively in lessons); they must be turned off in general or they get confiscated. Any kid who gets uppity about it and parents have to come in to collect it.