P. Bley/O. Coleman Live at the Hillcrest

[J Larsen]

The last few pages of Ted Gioia's book West Coast Jazz have me itching big-time to hear any live recordings of Paul Bley's quintet with Don Cherry, Ornette Coleman, Billy Higgins and Charlie Haden live at the Hillcrest Club from 1958. Does anyone know if any of these recordings are available as bootlegs or "grey-market" releases? Thanks.

[Chuck Nessa]

Not currently available. The America disc was reissued on cd, the IAI lp was withdrawn after legal stuff by Ornette.

The America catalog (part of the French Musidisc operation) is now owned by Universal, and I don't think they will be interested in issueing a number of titles with "questionable" pedigrees.

Edited August 6, 2003 by Chuck Nessa

[Rooster_Ties]

I have the "America" one on CD, as an French import if I remember right (not sure where the disc is presently, I'll dig for it - and see if I can find it).

I found mine used about 8 or 10 months ago (in St. Louis), and I've seen it at least once on eBay - maybe about 4 or 5 months ago. I don't check for rare Ornette on eBay all that often, so I have no idea how frequently it appears there. But the one I did see on eBay went for chump change, like $7 or $8, plus postage -- if I remember right

Keep your eyes out -- it's out there.

[brownie]

I have the America LP of this. Am not a hundred per cent sure but I seem to recall that

it was Paul Bley who loaned the Hillcrest tape to America for release. Inner City also released this LP in the USA.

[John L]

This is superb and historic music that needs to be heard. According to Bley, there are a lot of tapes that have still never seen the light of day. Sometime, someday, maybe we will have a magnificent box set.

There are at least two different Hillcrest CDs floating around with completely different selections. One (the European "America" CD) is easy to find, relatively speaking, or at least it was a few years ago. The other one was withdrawn as soon as it was issued back in the 80s and is a bitch to find.

The "easy" one is called "The Fabulous Paul Bley Quintet" (America 30AM6120,500542)

It has a great extended version of Klactoveesedstene that really displays Ornette's Bird roots along with I remember Harlem, the Blessing, and Free.

The hard one is "Coleman Classics vol. 1" (judging from the title, they had ambitions to release more!)

(Improvising Artists IAI373852)

Tracks: When Will the Blues Leave, Crossroads, Ramblin, How Deep is the Ocean

Edited August 6, 2003 by John L

[Rooster_Ties]

The "easy" one is called "The Fabulous Paul Bley Quintet" (America 30AM6120,500542)

It has a great extended version of Klactoveesedstene that really displays Ornette's Bird roots along with I remember Harlem, the Blessing, and Free.

Yes, this is the CD I have - same cover and everything. Sound quality is reasonably "OK" (though NOT great by any standard), though I recall the piano being the most difficult to hear. The horns are pretty clear, and that's what's most important (at least to me).

[brownie]

I have the IAJ Coleman Classics 1 LP too. The IAJ LPs came out in the '70s.

I remember looking for the Coleman Classics volume 2 for a long time. In vain.

Will give those Hillcrest albums a fresh hearing.

I talked to Paul Bley many years ago and he mentioned having all those tapes with him.

Hope he still has them and we will be hearing a lot more of this music.

[David Ayers]

Ornette himself seems unlikely to sanction release of these tapes. Both LPs are magnificent and it would be great to have more available.

What label was the CD reeleased on? Was it Giants of Jazz? I certainly don't see it listed any more. I have a feeling that there were two CD releases.

[Chuck Nessa]

I don't know of a cd version of Coleman Classics (I kept my lp), but the America lp was reissued as Musidisc 500542.

[JohnS]

There was a French Musidisc cd of the America material. I guess this was about five years ago, wasn't around for very long. I agree, the music's superb.

In Paul Bley's book he says he had hours of tapes from the Hillcrest Club but sold them as blank to get money to move east!

There's also some Ornette live at Lennox, Itmight have been on a Royal Jazz lp. There's some fascinating stuff there too though I've only heard one track on a radio broadcast.

Edited August 6, 2003 by JohnS

[John L]

I definitely remember seeing Coleman Classics vol. 1 on CD in the States. It may have been one of the first Ornette albums available on CD, in fact, back in the 1980s.

I didn't think about buying it at the time since I didn't even have a CD player yet. In a moment, it was gone.

Edited August 6, 2003 by John L

[RDK]

Not currently available. The America disc was reissued on cd, the IAI lp was withdrawn after legal stuff by Ornette.

The America catalog (part of the French Musidisc operation) is now owned by Universal, and I don't think they will be interested in issueing a number of titles with "questionable" pedigrees.

Chuck, you've often posted your stance on CDR trading (quite understandable given your position), but I'm curious if it still holds in a situation like this, where important music that should be heard isn't due to legal entanglements, artist indifference, or insufficient record company profit potential.

Ray

[J Larsen]

Thanks for all the replies. I've gathered two things from the responses: 1) People have had mixed responses to this material and 2) I have some hunting to do!

[jazzypaul]

Chuck,

there was one that I've seen that has a different cover than either of the two I've seen on this thread. There's a long, and very interesting version of Ramblin' on there, as well as a couple of Bley compositions. Very interesting stuff. I'll have to see if I can locate it again, scan it and show it to you, see if you know anything about it.

[brownie]

Dug out the Hillcrest America and IAI Coleman Classics vol. 1 LPs. The music is really

inspired.

The cuts on the albums comes from various sessions.

The America (that label was part of the Musidisc group) has a muddy sound.

The note to the LP indicates Paul Bley was responsible for the recording. The emphasis

is on Coleman and Cherry, with the rhythm section slightly off and Paul Bley getting the

worst treatment. His piano is far away and is out of tune.

The sound on the IAI is slightly better (David Baker is mentioned as 'mixing engineer'.

The audience was also more responsive to the music.

There are early versions of 'When Will the Blues Leave' and 'Ramblin''. The 'official' Contemporary and Atlantic renditions of the two are more cohesive and dynamic.

'Crossroads' and 'How Deep is the Ocean' are inverted on the vinyl and on the labels.

A four-age IAI catalogue was inserted in my copy.