street singer Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 I've just got a few of these records (Coltrane - 'Blue Train', Adderley - 'Something Else', Mobley - 's/t', Morgan - 'Indeed'), but love them so much that I plan to get many more. I love everything about them: the wonderful packaging, the high quality vinyl, the mastering, and, especially, the fact that they are in mono. I really can't stand the hard-panned stereo of so many early Blue Note stereo recordings, especially when there is only one horn player. I had originally only intended on getting the "big" recordings ('Blue Train', 'Somethin' Else', 'Soul Station', etc) but now plan to pick up as many of them as I can afford. This makes me wonder... Am I getting as much out of them as I can? I don't have a Mono cartridge, nor do I have a mono switch on my phono preamp. How essential are these in getting the most out of mono recordings? By playing a mono record through a stereo cartridge, what am I missing out on? I suppose that the ideal would be to play mono recordings through a mono cartridge, but would the same result be achieved by using a stereo cart and a phono preamp equipped with a mono switch? The thickness of these records also raises some questions. In my mind, I feel that 200 grams is actually a bit excessive. 180 gram is thick enough, but honestly, I feel that 140-150 gram is plenty thick (with thicker vinyl being used more as a marketing ploy than anything else). Nonetheless, Classic are pressing the Blue Note monos exclusively on 200 gram vinyl and don't appear to have any desire to do otherwise. How necessary is it to adjust VTA/VTF for these records? My table (Music Hall MMF-7 with Pro-Ject 9 arm) does not allow me to adjust these on-the-fly, so adjusting these for only a few records would prove to be a real pain. So, to you more experienced vinyl-philes out there: just how important is VTA/VTF adjustment when playing these thicker slabs of vinyl? Looking foward to discussion on this issue... Quote
Allan Songer Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 Here is my rig. The back arm is an Ikeda 12" with an Ortofon SPU-GT. The front arm is an SME 3012 with a mono Ortofon 25CGi. The table is a Thorens TD-124. Quote
Alexander Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 Here is my rig. The back arm is an Ikeda 12" with an Ortofon SPU-GT. The front arm is an SME 3012 with a mono Ortofon 25CGi. The table is a Thorens TD-124. That is one *nice* looking record player, man... Quote
Parkertown Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 That ain't no record-player. That most definitely is a turntable. A record-player is like a Close 'n Play. Quote
Parkertown Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 As far as your concern about getting the most out of these mono records from Classic (or any mono record for that matter) without a mono cart or mono switch on your amp: The trick is to go to Radio Shack and get two Y cords. This will allow you to collapse the signal. I'll do this for serious listening and definitely when doing a needledrop. Works great! (My receiver has no mono switch either...) Quote
street singer Posted July 20, 2006 Author Report Posted July 20, 2006 Thanks for the responses, guys. Having never heard a mono recording on a system that is optomized for mono playback, I'm really not sure what I'm missing by playing these on a stereo setup. Can anyone elaborate a bit on this? And yes, Allen, that is one fine turntable you got there! I believe I will eventually look into getting a table that allows two separate arms in order to have a mono cart and stereo cart. That seems to be the ultimate solution to this dilemma. And, while that is admittedly a few years away, here is what I've got my heart set on already... Like I said...a few years away. Maybe if I start saving my pennies now, I can afford that setup around, oh...2014? Or maybe I'll win the lottery next week... Then again, I don't play the lottery. I think it's time I start playing the lottery... Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 so blue note gave permisson for this company to remaster the orginal mono master tapes, is that correct? Quote
Parkertown Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 Yep, that's right chewy-chew-chew...they've been doing it for several years now. They're fucking expensive though...and it takes a bit of effort to get a cdr from 'em... Quote
Alexander Posted July 21, 2006 Report Posted July 21, 2006 I think it's time I start playing the lottery... Holy crap, that thing is gorgeous. Maybe *I* need to start playing the lottery... Quote
Alexander Posted July 21, 2006 Report Posted July 21, 2006 The pic above is a Teres Audio 265. THIS one here is the 360. It's around $17,000. Sigh. A fella can dream... Quote
(BB) Posted July 21, 2006 Report Posted July 21, 2006 The pic above is a Teres Audio 265. THIS one here is the 360. It's around $17,000. Sigh. A fella can dream... Wait a minute, now I need a quarter for each tone arm. I cant afford that. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted July 21, 2006 Report Posted July 21, 2006 The pic above is a Teres Audio 265. THIS one here is the 360. It's around $17,000. Sigh. A fella can dream... Wait a minute, now I need a quarter for each tone arm. I cant afford that. Do they play 78s? MG Quote
leagueofjames Posted July 21, 2006 Report Posted July 21, 2006 Here is my rig. The back arm is an Ikeda 12" with an Ortofon SPU-GT. The front arm is an SME 3012 with a mono Ortofon 25CGi. The table is a Thorens TD-124. Allan, do you listen through just one channel of your mac system then from the mono arm ? Quote
Allan Songer Posted July 22, 2006 Report Posted July 22, 2006 Here is my rig. The back arm is an Ikeda 12" with an Ortofon SPU-GT. The front arm is an SME 3012 with a mono Ortofon 25CGi. The table is a Thorens TD-124. Allan, do you listen through just one channel of your mac system then from the mono arm ? No. It's a modern, current production mono cartridge with a STEREO pin out compatible with my SME STEREO arm. But it is a TRUE mono cartridge in that it moves in ONE PLANE only and has a conical stylus of .25, which is larger than most "modern" stylus profiles, but is PERFECT for 1950's and early 60's mono vinyl. I merely flip the mono switch on my preamp and play through BOTH speakers. I have experimented over the years with single speaker mono and while it has certain advantages, I find that in my room with my system I perfer to listen to the mono through both speakers. Quote
(BB) Posted July 22, 2006 Report Posted July 22, 2006 Please pardon the naive question, but technically speaking what does a mono button do? Quote
Parkertown Posted July 22, 2006 Report Posted July 22, 2006 (edited) It sums the two channels. Just like using the double-Y cord set-up I suggested earlier in this thread. Have you tried it yet? Works like a charm. Edited July 22, 2006 by Parkertown Quote
(BB) Posted July 22, 2006 Report Posted July 22, 2006 I had some time today to play with the mono/stereo button, as it is to hot to get anything done outside. With a copy of a classic records 200gram copy of Griffin's A Blowin' Session, things sound very similar, the only minor difference I could note was that Blakey's cymbols sounded just a tiny wee-bit more clear in stereo. With my cleanest vintage blue note mono, a copy of Bobby Hutcheson's Happenings I could not detect any difference at all. With a black label Atlantic of The Jimmy Giuffre Clarinet, it seemed to help to deaden some of the light hiss in this pressing. With stereo recordings it obviously makes a difference and I have used it when I am particularly annoyed by things being too left and right, if you know what I mean. It may make more of a difference if you have a nicer system. My TT is a beogram tx2 with a new smmc4 stylus - reciever/amp is a late 70's yamaha cr840 - speakers are 2 pairs of polk-audio s4's. I think I'll just keep it in stereo for the bulk of my mono listening and just use it for what sounds like bad stereo to my ears. Bill Quote
GregK Posted July 22, 2006 Report Posted July 22, 2006 how much do you have to adjust the tracking force and anti skate to play 200g vinyl, anyway? Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted July 22, 2006 Report Posted July 22, 2006 I had some time today to play with the mono/stereo button, as it is to hot to get anything done outside. With a copy of a classic records 200gram copy of Griffin's A Blowin' Session, things sound very similar, the only minor difference I could note was that Blakey's cymbols sounded just a tiny wee-bit more clear in stereo.Bill And the stereo source material for Griffin's "A Blowin' Session" was.................. Quote
(BB) Posted July 23, 2006 Report Posted July 23, 2006 I had some time today to play with the mono/stereo button, as it is to hot to get anything done outside. With a copy of a classic records 200gram copy of Griffin's A Blowin' Session, things sound very similar, the only minor difference I could note was that Blakey's cymbols sounded just a tiny wee-bit more clear in stereo.Bill And the stereo source material for Griffin's "A Blowin' Session" was.................. Sorry if my post was a unclear. I am assuming that the Classic Records re-issue is a mono pressing made from the mono tape. Bill Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted July 23, 2006 Report Posted July 23, 2006 I was asking about the stereo source you used for comparison. Quote
(BB) Posted July 23, 2006 Report Posted July 23, 2006 I was comparing mono/stereo settings on my system when listening to mono pressings. Quote
sidewinder Posted July 23, 2006 Report Posted July 23, 2006 I run mono and stereo LPs with the same TT and arm (LP12, Naim Aro) and the only adjustment I make is to press the mono switch on the pre-amp. Very straight-forward. Quote
Parkertown Posted July 23, 2006 Report Posted July 23, 2006 Another thing I have learned about the mono button/double Y-cord thing is that it can also help cancel out some of the surface noise. I wouldn't really recommend listening to stereo recording with these engaged. Won't the Out-Of-Phase stuff disappear? That's kinda what's happening with the surface noise reduction. It could make things sound all whooshy too... Quote
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