Check out this thread from JC

[JSngry]

...his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! )...

What happens to a dream deferred?

[fasstrack]

...his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! )...

What happens to a dream deferred?

Ya know Jim, maybe it's my Jewish guilt kicking in (I mean, shit, it's been 6 whole minutes...) but perhaps Old Stanley can be persuded to come on here and speak for himself. I'd gladly debate him and it doesn't seem gentlemanly to be talking behind his cyber-back, despite his alleged and real crimes. This is a jazz-savvy crew and perhaps he'd actually discuss rather than deficate his royal poop over us. I'd enjoy whipping his ass myself. Plus I write pretty well and can actually play a musicial instrument with a jazz band.

Administrator? Care to invite Mr. Crouch? You can say it was at the behest of Mr. Joel Fass

Edited July 13, 2006 by fasstrack

[7/4]

...his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! )...

What happens to a dream deferred?

Ya know Jim, maybe it's my Jewish guilt kicking in (I mean, shit, it's been 6 whole minutes...) but perhaps Old Stanley can be persuded to come on here and speak for himself. I'd gladly debate him and it doesn't seem gentlemanly to be talking behind his cyber-back, despite his alleged and real crimes. This is a jazz-savvy crew and perhaps he'd actually discuss rather than deficate his royal poop over us. I'd enjoy whipping his ass myself. Plus I write pretty well and can actually play a musicial instrument with a jazz band.

Administrator? Care to invite Mr. Crouch? You can say it was at the behest of Mr. Joel Fass

Ah...why bother. He would post once, talk trash and never respond again.

[7/4]

And then we'd have to worry about he sneaking up on us at a bar and sucker punching us.

[JSngry]

...his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! )...

What happens to a dream deferred?

Ya know Jim, maybe it's my Jewish guilt kicking in (I mean, shit, it's been 6 whole minutes...) but perhaps Old Stanley can be persuded to come on here and speak for himself. I'd gladly debate him and it doesn't seem gentlemanly to be talking behind his cyber-back, despite his alleged and real crimes. This is a jazz-savvy crew and perhaps he'd actually discuss rather than deficate his royal poop over us. I'd enjoy whipping his ass myself. Plus I write pretty well and can actually play a musicial instrument with a jazz band.

Administrator? Care to invite Mr. Crouch? You can say it was at the behest of Mr. Joel Fass

I was referring to the opportunity (missed, it seems) to say "cryto-fascist".

Crouch? Got nothing to say to him, nor he to me.

I yam waht I yam, and so is he. And you are me, baby makes three, and we're happy in my bluebob havens.

[fasstrack]

And then we'd have to worry about he sneaking up on us at a bar and sucker punching us.

I'm serious, guy. I'd debate him publicly or in email. He needs a musician that knows where at least some of the bones are buried and actually has similar views to take some of the stuffing out of him. I'll even take on the seeming African-American self-loathing that oozes from his utterings, as I've been practically raised by black people and learned everything of use in jazz from them. Mostly I want to call his ass out for his sudden 'seeing the light' of musical/political conservativism rather like magic in the Reagan?Marsalis 80s, the JAMF climber. I'd LOVE to take that MF apart publicly.

STANLEY..... STANLEY I'm calling out to you, dude. Hollah!

Edited July 13, 2006 by fasstrack

[JSngry]

And then we'd have to worry about he sneaking up on us at a bar and sucker punching us.

A man can do that when he's so fat that he don't have to worry about getting kicked in the nuts.

[7/4]

And then we'd have to worry about he sneaking up on us at a bar and sucker punching us.

A man can do that when he's so fat that he don't have to worry about getting kicked in the nuts.

Nothing to stop me from grabbing a chair...

[sheldonm]

...his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! )...

What happens to a dream deferred?

Ya know Jim, maybe it's my Jewish guilt kicking in (I mean, shit, it's been 6 whole minutes...) but perhaps Old Stanley can be persuded to come on here and speak for himself. I'd gladly debate him and it doesn't seem gentlemanly to be talking behind his cyber-back, despite his alleged and real crimes. This is a jazz-savvy crew and perhaps he'd actually discuss rather than deficate his royal poop over us. I'd enjoy whipping his ass myself. Plus I write pretty well and can actually play a musicial instrument with a jazz band.

Administrator? Care to invite Mr. Crouch? You can say it was at the behest of Mr. Joel Fass

Stanley is a drummer!

[7/4]

We can tie his shoe laces together and take turn bumping into him.

[7/4]

Stanley is a drummer!

Time for jokes about 4 musicans and a drummer.

[Dan Gould]

The simple fact is that Ricci and Lois feel a need to bring out jazz "bigwigs" whether musical or otherwise, while this board has a completely different vibe and therefore absolutely no reason to even think about doing such things.

Ya wanna debate Crouch? Go wherever he is. Don't invite him here or suggest that he be invited.

Better yet, write a bad review, and then go hang out in his neighborhood. Soon enough, you'll get your chance. But keep your hands up at all times, and be sure to wear steel-tipped shoes when you try to find his testicles.

[fasstrack]

Jazz Corner's Speakeasy is open to the general public. Go there and join the debate with him!

We do not need this guy here. Not at all. I'd prefer leaving him to Jazz Corner.

BTW, since it appears that many missed a point I was trying to make in this thread, I'd also like to say that I only brought up Mike Ricci and AAJ to demonstrate and highlight the absurdity of doing so on Organissimo. The fact that someone felt the need to go tell Mike about it, clearly shows that my stab at irony missed the mark.

Discussion of problems I or anyone has had with Mike Ricci or Lois Gilbert belongs on the board where the problem resides. We don't need other boards' problems brought here. We have enough of our own.

Later,

Kevin

To show you how out of it I am i never heard of Mike Ricci before. I found this board because Lazaro mentioned it. I lile it here. I asked Jim privately BTW. I don't wanna make trouble here.

I dealt with Ms. Gilbert when I posted a report on John Hicks' service at St. Mark's church in Harlem on a few websites including hers and this one. I don't hang there and waste too much time on the web as it is (don't take that the wrong way. Love yiz, but I do waste too much time on the web and in general). Anyway, Lois received what I wrote and myself warmly and we emailed each other for a minute. She was nice to me indeed. I don't know that I want to throw wood on the fire at her joint to get better known by calling Stanley out. If she's afraid of the Big Bad Wolf as y'all say it's not my place to roil the political waters, though I myself am not afraid. I should be afraid, because I'm actually still trying to have a career at this music thing, dumb as I am. A little crazy, I guess . But ultimately irritating Crouch ain't what I want or need my claim to fame to be. I'd rather keep chipping away at art and stand or fall on my own bottom like every other tub. Including Stanley. But the guy does get on my nerves.

Guess Zappa was right: 'Shut up and play yer guitar', write sone music the world can use more than more finger-pointing and dick-waving. And don't waste time or get into trouble 'tilting at windbags'.

Edited July 13, 2006 by fasstrack

[Christiern]

Well, the discussion over there has taken a new turn that has Rainy (and her co-hort) foaming at the mouth, dealing all her race cards and cursing like bad day at Oz. Not surprisingly, the race spark came from the Ohio troll.

I agree that bringing Stanley here would be a big mistake. That said, I think he has learned a lesson over on the corner.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Christiern

[Hot Ptah]

There is a humorous parody review, done in the Crouch style, now posted on the JC thread. The poster states that it is from an earlier publication, but I had not read it before.

[Big Al]

I agree that bringing Stanley here would be a big mistake. That said, I think he has learned a lesson over on the corner.

Huh? I just got caught up on that thread and didn't see anything posted by Crouch that would indicate that.

[Christiern]

I didn't mean in the first round, but I think this second round has got to tell him how transparent he is, at least to minor people (who, oddly, would appear to have keener perception).

BTW, that parody by Bret Primack is very funny--I read it a long time ago and time has not faded the humor.

[Big Al]

There is a humorous parody review, done in the Crouch style, now posted on the JC thread. The poster states that it is from an earlier publication, but I had not read it before.

That parody is so on the mark, for a while there I really thought I was reading another Crouch piece.

[bertrand]

Please post the parody here so I don't have to read the rest of their crap.

If Crouch shows up here, I'm leaving.

Bertrand.

[Noj]

As requested, Bertrand...

"The Liner Notes To "Noble Gutbucket Blues", An Album By Trumpeter Minton Bursitis and the John Wilkes Booth Peripheral Jazz Orchestra, Written by Livingston Squat

In his latest record, "Noble Gutbucket Blues," Minton Bursitis has proven once again to all those with the courage, discerning intelligence and moral backbone not only to listen but to go that difficult step further and fully grasp his message in all its heroic simplicity and defiant sophistication, both intellectually and as the African-American folk adage would have it, "down to de booty," that he is unquestionably the finest trumpeter of his generation on the scene today (and doubtless would have been on the scenes of such illustrious non-African-American greats as Mozart, Beethoven, and Henry Purcell, particularly as those European scenes, taking place as they did before the Industrial Revolution of the late 19th century, didn't have to deal with the obnoxious glitter and obscenely cynical "values" which are spread by our modern-day media society and threaten literacy and the quest for demanding excellence in today's world).

Not a small part of Bursitis' success is his ability and willingness to surround himself with young players whose talent, discipline and respectful obedience to the demands and concomitant advantages so manifest in the great masterworks of Jelly Roll Morton, Louis Armstrong, Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Billie Holiday, Charlie Parker, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman and a few others, place them squarely in the forefront of the elite upper crust of the historical jazz talent pool. These men, the young lions of today, will certainly be among the battle-scarred veteran jungle cats of tomorrow, defending the territory of their pride against the corrupt, effeminate juggernaut of so-called "popular music". The orchestra's rhythm section - E. Jubilee Jefferson, piano, Wavon Thurgood, bass, and Clarence "Coolpapa" Thomas, drums - demonstrate a native talent for their instruments and a near-parapsychological intuitive understanding of classical Negro American improvised music, in all its shades from lowdown gutbucket dirty brown through boudoir indigo to the pale rose mist of pure cerebral contemplation, that would be almost amazing if this fertile tradition had not already proven time and time again its capacity to produce individuals capable of that mixture of selfless exploration and tenacious striving which are characteristic of all great artists in any field since the Italian Renaissance.

This entire band has understood the central importance of Thelonious Monk's advice, "Always play good," and are now capable of performing their solos, accompaniment and section playing with equal attention not only to the three pillars of melody, harmony and rhythm, but also to the modular partitions of texture, tone color, phrasing, dynamics, tempo and timing which give weight, space and character to every note played, and which are matched in swaggering class and funky elegance only by the musicians' own sartorial splendor. As an example, careful analysis of Jefferson's solo on the leader's Ellingtonian ballad, "Ballad for D.E.," demonstrates that he uses certain notes from the closing phrase of the preceding trumpet solo in his own opening passage, then carefully plays two choruses using the basic harmonic material of the tune as his springboard, only to end his solo immediately before Thomas begins his drum feature.

As further demonstration of the group's uncanny musical maturity, note how Bursitis, in his feature tune "Unfortunate Despair in Johannesburg," is able to scoop up a sizzling melody line like a baseball infielder, slap it down in that barrelhouse gutbucket with jaunty elegance, and then send it to the stars with a few bittersweet brushstrokes. Thomas's astounding work throughout reveals that he has deeply understood the revolutionary potential of the playing of the little-known genius Elleron Scoubidoux, a New Orleans drummer of the 1920's whose only recorded legacy, a three-second intro to Jassbo Billy's "Stinkin' Butt Shuffle," is carefully reworked in Thomas's cymbal work behind the bass solo in the Max Roach-inspired Afro-Latin work, "Nital-Orfa Work." As I have written elsewhere, "only the hard lessons of fully assumed young manhood have allowed these men to go beyond the facile trivialities of mere unbelievable virtuosity and reach the clear air of the plateau of the true sophistication inherent in the kind of demands made on these men by the lessons learned in the fierce battles that have been waged on the field of honor between the historical imperatives of Negro American culture in post-war society and the increasingly powerful but still not victorious surge of contemptible commercialism and cowardly limp compromise with mass-produced 'popular culture', as I have written elsewhere."

Indeed, this sort of solidarity among the more serious of the young and talented major figures in modern jazz also includes an awareness of the larger cultural issues at risk. Says Bursitis humbly of "Unfortunate Despair in Johannesburg," "After seeing a program on television about apartheid, I became aware of the kind of submission that not only American Negroes but all young people in rich, industrialized countries are in danger of accepting unless our dedication to Western democratic ideals and our quest to resolutely meet the superb, unbending standards of our mamas and daddies and preacher men prevent the positive contents of our fantastic accomplishments from being washed to neap tide levels by the overwhelming swell of mass-produced, brain-wash 'philosophy'. When I look at our bass player, Wavon, I feel proud that he has been able to comprehend this and so completely fulfill his potential as a musician, even though he's only twelve." This is the kind of far-seeing and fundamentally responsible personal effort for extraordinary excellence that is so eloquently encouraged by historian J. Harvey Stairwell in his groundbreaking work "Life and Art in the Western World: Decadence and Decline Everywhere," Tome VIII, and which Tadd Dameron must surely have had in mind when he leaned over the dinner table of a Kansas City whorehouse to Earl Hines in 1952 and said "Yo, check it out, man." In any case, it is now undeniably certain that a one-to-one correspondence can henceforth be made between the name Minton Bursitis and the triple goals of astute brilliance, blinding incredible technical mastery, deeply profound emotional maturity and the kind of mysterious erotic power so central to the African-American tradition of "shakin' yo' ass." And that is saying a great deal."

[fasstrack]

I went and did it. I challenged him to debate. I hope some of y'all will get my back after he kills any hope of a career. Seriously, he likely won't notice or deign to respond. Too bad the whole thing didn't get on. A corker, and well-deserved.

Edited July 13, 2006 by fasstrack

[bertrand]

Noj,

Thanks!

'As an example, careful analysis of Jefferson's solo on the leader's Ellingtonian ballad, "Ballad for D.E.," demonstrates that he uses certain notes from the closing phrase of the preceding trumpet solo in his own opening passage, then carefully plays two choruses using the basic harmonic material of the tune as his springboard, only to end his solo immediately before Thomas begins his drum feature.'

I love it!

Bertrand.

[Jazzmoose]

Well, the discussion over there has taken a new turn that has Rainy (and her co-hort) foaming at the mouth, dealing all her race cards and cursing like bad day at Oz. Not surprisingly, the race spark came from the Ohio troll.

Oh, come on. At best, the choice of the word "uppity" was embarrassing and unfortunate. I have a hard time believing anyone who frequents a jazz board would be that clueless...

[Christiern]

Agreed, but embarrassing and unfortunate remarks permeate through the entire thread, don't you think? From Rainy and the troll to Rainy and her sidekick, to Dolan's dance invitation, to just about everything posted by the principals: Stan the MAJOR man and his web mistress.

I think the "uppity" mention was ill-informed and inadvertent, but it was serious fodder for the trolls, notice how quickly the popped out of the snake pit.

[Jim Alfredson]

I still fail to see the point of bringing this here.