Check out this thread from JC

[Kalo]

I'm just glad that SOMEBODY alerted me to the almost Shakespearean level of foolishness that Crouch has attained...

The man's clearly extremely intelligent and has made some valuable contributions to the discussion of jazz, but what a thin skin he has...

[7/4]

I sent an email to Mike Ricci and told him about this thread. His only comment was that he has banned nine out of 9,600 members at AAJ, and two of the nine are posting on this thread.

I'm one of them

I was banned as a result of our, well, let's call it a collision. No problem.

Unless he missed me, I'm the other one.

In honor of another person banned from the Org and AAJ (DEEP):

Hans,

CLASP!

imagine that, why would anyone ban Dan.

[Kalo]

Is this Mr. Crouse some sort of commissar???

I believe that he'd relish the opportunity...

[The Red Menace]

This just in from a somewhat befuddled defender of Mr. Crouse!!!

I'm looking forward to reading Stanley's new tomb.

Do you suppose this poster is a distant relative of Comrade Hardbop???

[JSngry]

Or Comrade Gotti...

[fasstrack]

When I read the first paragraph of SC's post, it immediately reminded me of some of the great speeches Ignatius J. Reilly gave in the book A Confederacy of Dunces.

Maybe the Swift quote is relevant here: "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Ha ha. That is frickin' hilarious. I just started that book after an Internet friend recommended it---and others on that board started calling me Ignatius J. Fass. The first few pages had me as in stitches as those great bards Moe, Larry, and Curly.

As far as Crouch goes, this is hardly brilliant but if we ignore him he might go away, or at least continue his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! ) self-important ilk......He talks about winning a war of some sort. Gee, dumbass me, here I always thought of music as a way of spreading joy and making friends. Anyway, it's all been said and he laps up the attention. The 'minor men' comment coupled with the disingenuous this-is-a-one-time-response-and-aren't-you-lucky-I'm-deigning-to' barely conceals the greed of one of the world's great attention-cravers. Solution: ignore him.

Fair disclosure: I should take my own advice, as the shadow his intimidating ass casts over too much of the jazz establishment is troubling to me indeed. Ridiculous, since I have no dealings with him, being a 'minor man'. I really should do my thing and not even notice him since he's not reviewing me and never slapped any of my buddies that I know of. I guess we think too much, being sensitive and all. But it bothers the dickens out of me that musicians, frankly including myself, fear speaking out against this deluded windbag for fear of committing career suicide. I actually agree with some of his print statements and am hardly that different in my own tastes but reserve the right to resent his self-importance and elitism, plus do not feel at all turned on by his pretentious and over-ripe prose. Somebody send that gasbag mothafucka a copy of anything by Hemingway. ASAP.

Critics have always been here and someone once said he's travelled the world and never seen a single statue of a critic, but many of musicians. The real question perhaps should be why do we musicians let these fuckers get under our skin? Spell the cats' names right, Stanley, and get the name of the joint and starting time right and we'll take it from there. Astute jazz listeners can hear and imagine and don't need a goddamn thing explained to them or embroidered in my book. I've been corrected by passers-by when I played a melody wrong.

Apropos of nothing but wanting to say it I have a lot of admiration for Nat Hentoff, but more for his fierce First Amendment defense in print. FWIW He would be the first to defend Stanley if censured.

Edited July 13, 2006 by fasstrack

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Spell the cats' names right, Stanley, and get the name of the joint and starting time right and we'll take it from there.

[connoisseur series500]

I sent an email to Mike Ricci and told him about this thread. His only comment was that he has banned nine out of 9,600 members at AAJ, and two of the nine are posting on this thread.

I'm one of them

I was banned as a result of our, well, let's call it a collision. No problem.

Unless he missed me, I'm the other one.

In honor of another person banned from the Org and AAJ (DEEP):

Hans,

CLASP!

imagine that, why would anyone ban Dan.

(Sorry, Dan, but that was good!)

Edited July 13, 2006 by connoisseur series500

[fasstrack]

JC isn't the easiest place to hang out, so I choose my battles carefully. There are a few people there that have been very nice to me (such as the oft-maligned Mr. Dolan), but there are some major jerks, too. I don't let it get to me.

File under True Confessions of a soon-to-be-former Internet Blabbermouth

I started my Internet sojourn by jumping into the cold waters of Branford Marsalis' wacky forum. (Please, I pray this doesn't turn into a weenie roast of Bran. I happen to think he's a great guy). I came on strong as I am wont to do, opting to take the wind out of the balloon of an Internet bully but also an intelligent person and good musician who still baits me three years hence but I mostly ignore all but his most egregious statements now. A lot of the regulars ganged up on me, or so it seemed. There was one who was particularly viscious (I can't spell that word for shit) and I was among his favorite targets because I let him get uinder my skin. In retrospect I was a complaining drama queen myself and certain people professed to not being able to stand me. Branford himself told me 'democracy is a bitch. Either participate or don't'. In the end his board was brought down by assholes who turned his very egalitarianism on his head by stealing identities of musicians with some kind of name and posting hateful racist rhetoric. It's a shame, too, because he himself is fun to debate, funny as hell, and I enjoyed reading him even when I thought what he said was out to lunch occasionally. The cat is a thinker and I respect that. I like his work, too. Anyway, I did make some friends there, Lazaro among them. So like life, the Web is what you make it. You wanna brawl, brawl. Wanna make friends/contacts it's there too.

I've done my share of shit talking on the IntraWeb and like Mae West am no angel. But as I age I see that it's easier to talk shit, or even opine passionately than play good or find the good in others' playing or people generally. The best opinion or answer to those you disagree with is playing your ass off. It seems that though I ain't shit compared to my heroes my guitar playing doesn't seem to insult anyone. My words, on the other hand, are subject to things I would rather not waste energy on. I'd like to speak better through music. I think it can be a great teacher of the art of living.

Edited July 13, 2006 by fasstrack

[chris olivarez]

Hell, I've never been banned from any jazz board. I must be doing something wrong to have avoided such a fate, particularly considering my propensity for telling jokes involving minors, George Bush, and a nose picking

{The rest of this post has been censored by the moderator and the poster banned}

Jazzmoose,Jazzmoose.

[JSngry]

...his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! )...

What happens to a dream deferred?

[fasstrack]

...his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! )...

What happens to a dream deferred?

Ya know Jim, maybe it's my Jewish guilt kicking in (I mean, shit, it's been 6 whole minutes...) but perhaps Old Stanley can be persuded to come on here and speak for himself. I'd gladly debate him and it doesn't seem gentlemanly to be talking behind his cyber-back, despite his alleged and real crimes. This is a jazz-savvy crew and perhaps he'd actually discuss rather than deficate his royal poop over us. I'd enjoy whipping his ass myself. Plus I write pretty well and can actually play a musicial instrument with a jazz band.

Administrator? Care to invite Mr. Crouch? You can say it was at the behest of Mr. Joel Fass

Edited July 13, 2006 by fasstrack

[7/4]

...his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! )...

What happens to a dream deferred?

Ya know Jim, maybe it's my Jewish guilt kicking in (I mean, shit, it's been 6 whole minutes...) but perhaps Old Stanley can be persuded to come on here and speak for himself. I'd gladly debate him and it doesn't seem gentlemanly to be talking behind his cyber-back, despite his alleged and real crimes. This is a jazz-savvy crew and perhaps he'd actually discuss rather than deficate his royal poop over us. I'd enjoy whipping his ass myself. Plus I write pretty well and can actually play a musicial instrument with a jazz band.

Administrator? Care to invite Mr. Crouch? You can say it was at the behest of Mr. Joel Fass

Ah...why bother. He would post once, talk trash and never respond again.

[7/4]

And then we'd have to worry about he sneaking up on us at a bar and sucker punching us.

[JSngry]

...his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! )...

What happens to a dream deferred?

Ya know Jim, maybe it's my Jewish guilt kicking in (I mean, shit, it's been 6 whole minutes...) but perhaps Old Stanley can be persuded to come on here and speak for himself. I'd gladly debate him and it doesn't seem gentlemanly to be talking behind his cyber-back, despite his alleged and real crimes. This is a jazz-savvy crew and perhaps he'd actually discuss rather than deficate his royal poop over us. I'd enjoy whipping his ass myself. Plus I write pretty well and can actually play a musicial instrument with a jazz band.

Administrator? Care to invite Mr. Crouch? You can say it was at the behest of Mr. Joel Fass

I was referring to the opportunity (missed, it seems) to say "cryto-fascist".

Crouch? Got nothing to say to him, nor he to me.

I yam waht I yam, and so is he. And you are me, baby makes three, and we're happy in my bluebob havens.

[fasstrack]

And then we'd have to worry about he sneaking up on us at a bar and sucker punching us.

I'm serious, guy. I'd debate him publicly or in email. He needs a musician that knows where at least some of the bones are buried and actually has similar views to take some of the stuffing out of him. I'll even take on the seeming African-American self-loathing that oozes from his utterings, as I've been practically raised by black people and learned everything of use in jazz from them. Mostly I want to call his ass out for his sudden 'seeing the light' of musical/political conservativism rather like magic in the Reagan?Marsalis 80s, the JAMF climber. I'd LOVE to take that MF apart publicly.

STANLEY..... STANLEY I'm calling out to you, dude. Hollah!

Edited July 13, 2006 by fasstrack

[JSngry]

And then we'd have to worry about he sneaking up on us at a bar and sucker punching us.

A man can do that when he's so fat that he don't have to worry about getting kicked in the nuts.

[7/4]

And then we'd have to worry about he sneaking up on us at a bar and sucker punching us.

A man can do that when he's so fat that he don't have to worry about getting kicked in the nuts.

Nothing to stop me from grabbing a chair...

[sheldonm]

...his preachments to the other converted geniuses of his crypto-fascist, (I always wanted to say cryto-fascist! )...

What happens to a dream deferred?

Ya know Jim, maybe it's my Jewish guilt kicking in (I mean, shit, it's been 6 whole minutes...) but perhaps Old Stanley can be persuded to come on here and speak for himself. I'd gladly debate him and it doesn't seem gentlemanly to be talking behind his cyber-back, despite his alleged and real crimes. This is a jazz-savvy crew and perhaps he'd actually discuss rather than deficate his royal poop over us. I'd enjoy whipping his ass myself. Plus I write pretty well and can actually play a musicial instrument with a jazz band.

Administrator? Care to invite Mr. Crouch? You can say it was at the behest of Mr. Joel Fass

Stanley is a drummer!

[7/4]

We can tie his shoe laces together and take turn bumping into him.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

And then we'd have to worry about he sneaking up on us at a bar and sucker punching us.

I'm serious, guy. I'd debate him publicly or in email. He needs a musician that knows where at least some of the bones are buried and actually has similar views to take some of the stuffing out of him. I'll even take on the seeming African-American self-loathing that oozes from his utterings, as I've been practically raised by black people and learned everything of use in jazz from them. Mostly I want to call his ass out for his sudden 'seeing the light' of musical/political conservativism rather like magic in the Reagan?Marsalis 80s, the JAMF climber. I'd LOVE to take that MF apart publicly.

STANLEY..... STANLEY I'm calling out to you, dude. Hollah!

Jazz Corner's Speakeasy is open to the general public. Go there and join the debate with him!

We do not need this guy here. Not at all. I'd prefer leaving him to Jazz Corner.

BTW, since it appears that many missed a point I was trying to make in this thread, I'd also like to say that I only brought up Mike Ricci and AAJ to demonstrate and highlight the absurdity of doing so on Organissimo. The fact that someone felt the need to go tell Mike about it, clearly shows that my stab at irony missed the mark.

Discussion of problems I or anyone has had with Mike Ricci or Lois Gilbert belongs on the board where the problem resides. We don't need other boards' problems brought here. We have enough of our own.

Later,

Kevin

[7/4]

Stanley is a drummer!

Time for jokes about 4 musicans and a drummer.

[Dan Gould]

The simple fact is that Ricci and Lois feel a need to bring out jazz "bigwigs" whether musical or otherwise, while this board has a completely different vibe and therefore absolutely no reason to even think about doing such things.

Ya wanna debate Crouch? Go wherever he is. Don't invite him here or suggest that he be invited.

Better yet, write a bad review, and then go hang out in his neighborhood. Soon enough, you'll get your chance. But keep your hands up at all times, and be sure to wear steel-tipped shoes when you try to find his testicles.

[fasstrack]

Jazz Corner's Speakeasy is open to the general public. Go there and join the debate with him!

We do not need this guy here. Not at all. I'd prefer leaving him to Jazz Corner.

BTW, since it appears that many missed a point I was trying to make in this thread, I'd also like to say that I only brought up Mike Ricci and AAJ to demonstrate and highlight the absurdity of doing so on Organissimo. The fact that someone felt the need to go tell Mike about it, clearly shows that my stab at irony missed the mark.

Discussion of problems I or anyone has had with Mike Ricci or Lois Gilbert belongs on the board where the problem resides. We don't need other boards' problems brought here. We have enough of our own.

Later,

Kevin

To show you how out of it I am i never heard of Mike Ricci before. I found this board because Lazaro mentioned it. I lile it here. I asked Jim privately BTW. I don't wanna make trouble here.

I dealt with Ms. Gilbert when I posted a report on John Hicks' service at St. Mark's church in Harlem on a few websites including hers and this one. I don't hang there and waste too much time on the web as it is (don't take that the wrong way. Love yiz, but I do waste too much time on the web and in general). Anyway, Lois received what I wrote and myself warmly and we emailed each other for a minute. She was nice to me indeed. I don't know that I want to throw wood on the fire at her joint to get better known by calling Stanley out. If she's afraid of the Big Bad Wolf as y'all say it's not my place to roil the political waters, though I myself am not afraid. I should be afraid, because I'm actually still trying to have a career at this music thing, dumb as I am. A little crazy, I guess . But ultimately irritating Crouch ain't what I want or need my claim to fame to be. I'd rather keep chipping away at art and stand or fall on my own bottom like every other tub. Including Stanley. But the guy does get on my nerves.

Guess Zappa was right: 'Shut up and play yer guitar', write sone music the world can use more than more finger-pointing and dick-waving. And don't waste time or get into trouble 'tilting at windbags'.

Edited July 13, 2006 by fasstrack

[Christiern]

Well, the discussion over there has taken a new turn that has Rainy (and her co-hort) foaming at the mouth, dealing all her race cards and cursing like bad day at Oz. Not surprisingly, the race spark came from the Ohio troll.

I agree that bringing Stanley here would be a big mistake. That said, I think he has learned a lesson over on the corner.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Christiern