Questions about music lessons for 5 year old

[(BB)]

I love music, but all my attempts at learning instruments were very short dead end streets. I just want to expose her to as much as possible, if she digs it that's cool, if not, that's cool to.

My daughter walks around the house singing all day. She makes up songs and plays along on her toy accordion. Luckily for her she takes after her mother and can carry a tune. It seems like lots of kids start on the piano, but if you ask what instrument she wants to study she will say, "fiddle."?

So, here are my questions.

Do people feel there are pros and cons to beginning formal music lessons at the age of 5?

Is violin/fiddle a good place to start? To me it seems like a fairly technical instrument and could be pretty frustrating to learn with out already knowing some basics.

If she likes singing should we get her involved in a choir rather than an instrument?

What questions should I ask a teacher/school before signing her up?

Any information or experiences would be appreciated.

Bill

Edited July 3, 2006 by (BB)

[Jazz Kat]

Don't start formal lessons first. You'll bore your daughter to death. Violin is a hard instrument, but just giver her what she wants. Let her have fun with it, make her love it, see if she has talent with it. Then after a couple years, start the formal lessons.

[Jazz Kat]

Oh yeah, just my opinion, but I would make her learn an instrument first. Then carry on with vocals.

[Free For All]

Well, sorry to contradict you JK , but I think that singing should be part of every musician's training right from the start. To be able to create music without the obstacle of an external instrument makes for feelings of accomplishment sooner.

As far as the violin, I think formal training is important with any instrument. To leave her on her own (especially for "a couple years"!) would probably lead to the development of bad habits that would need to be unlearned before progress could be made. As far as the boredom issue, it's just a matter of finding the right teacher or class. This is a discipline that requires individual practice, but a supportive teacher and family will help this. I know in my early years I would sometimes practice with a friend which made things a bit more fun. As far as finding a teacher, I would probably seek out other parents' opinions on this one- find out who their kids like, who motivates them to want to practice.

I think it's very important to get some fundamentals together in the early stages. Bad habits are hard to undo. The "fun" aspect comes from experiencing a sense of improvement, and it's important to help the child realize the journey itself is part of the reward.

edited for spelling

Edited July 4, 2006 by Free For All

[fasstrack]

Well, sorry to contradict you JK , but I think that singing should be part of every musician's training right from the start. To be able to create music without the obstacle of an external instrument makes for feelings of accomplishment sooner.

Truer words may have been spoken but I'm sure I don't know when. I'm a successful teacher of children, but it wasn't always so. Kids want to learn a song and more specifically they want to learn a song they know. I wasted a lot of years trying to be a pedagogue instead of tapping into the musical memory children already have. If they sing something it's because they like it. You can use the musical memory they have while slowly addressing the physical aspects of the instrument.

Having said this I find 5 is not always a good age to start---depending on the child, of course. There are motor skill/attention issues and the smallness of hands to get around. That's when singing and hand clapping, etc. come in. You're keeping them with a song and you slowly show them how to do a simple one, praising their effort. They really need to like it so I smile a lot. It's not phony because I always smile around music----and it's contagious. But the physical/developmental realities are there and cannot be dismissed, and so I prefer 6 or especially 7 year olds as beginners.

I teach guitar and beginning piano. Guitar is a hard instrument (as Benny Golson observed once to me at an IAJE clinic---not that I don't know that already playing the damn thing 40+ years ). So after knocking my brains out and getting nowhere trying to teach in 1st position where the frets are the biggest (due to indoctrination by all these damn beginner's books) the guy I work for gave me an alternative---and it works like a charm: Let them play a simple melody (Frere Jaques, etc.) along one string and have it written with tablature (a guitar system of reading fret numbers on each string) under the notes. Don't even mention the notes, only the tune and the #s. They get it and my whole practice turned around from this one adjustment.

But singing, playing----everyone responds to melody and everyone has a musical memory to tap into.

[7/4]

Well, sorry to contradict you JK , but I think that singing should be part of every musician's training right from the start. To be able to create music without the obstacle of an external instrument makes for feelings of accomplishment sooner.

Truer words may have been spoken but I'm sure I don't know when. I'm a successful teacher of children, but it wasn't always so. Kids want to learn a song and more specifically they want to learn a song they know. I wasted a lot of years trying to be a pedagogue instead of tapping into the musical memory children already have. If they sing something it's because they like it. You can use the musical memory they have while slowly addressing the physical aspects of the instrument.

Having said this I find 5 is not always a good age to start---depending on the child, of course. There are motor skill/attention issues and the smallness of hands to get around. That's when singing and hand clapping, etc. come in. You're keeping them with a song and you slowly show them how to do a simple one, praising their effort. They really need to like it so I smile a lot. It's not phony because I always smile around music----and it's contagious. But the physical/developmental realities are there and cannot be dismissed, and so I prefer 6 or especially 7 year olds as beginners.

I teach guitar and beginning piano. Guitar is a hard instrument (as Benny Golson observed once to me at an IAJE clinic---not that I don't know that already playing the damn thing 40+ years ). So after knocking my brains out and getting nowhere trying to teach in 1st position where the frets are the biggest (due to indoctrination by all these damn beginner's books) the guy I work for gave me an alternative---and it works like a charm: Let them play a simple melody (Frere Jaques, etc.) along one string and have it written with tablature (a guitar system of reading fret numbers on each string) under the notes. Don't even mention the notes, only the tune and the #s. They get it and my whole practice turned around from this one adjustment.

But singing, playing----everyone responds to melody and everyone has a musical memory to tap into.

Great advice!

[fasstrack]

Great advice!

Thanks. I just had recitals and my kids were awesome. A 7-year-old performed a song she wrote, a 10-year-old playing for 4 months played Cat's in the Cradle (not an easy tune), andf a 13-year old played Bach's Bouree in Em. I backed them all and it was a beautiful evening. I was proud of them and proud of me.

[Jazz Kat]

Fact is, not everyone learns the same way. You may start violin lessons at age 5, hate it, but then become a virtuoso in your later years. If you love the instrument, and you want to master it bad enough, you can! If not, there's always something else. Music is only one part of life.

[Joe G]

Might check into the Suzuki method. I can't recommend it, because I haven't researched it, but it seems to be geared toward kids like yours.

[Niko]

Might check into the Suzuki method. I can't recommend it, because I haven't researched it, but it seems to be geared toward kids like yours.

my brother started (at age 5 or 6) playing using the suzuki method... the advantage was that he (and the other children) really had fun playing together, started to love playing music... the disadvantage was that at age twelve when he got another teacher he had to learn a lot of technique because in that suzuki group he didn't hold the violin the right way..., he didn't stop playing then but I think some of his friends did. I think whats problematic with violin (oboe is similar) is that it often takes years until it begins to sound good (on the other hand it is at most technical levels relatively easy to find people to play with, orchestras... later on)

edit: i would also definitely not recommend starting violin without a teacher... there may be instruments where one can just try around for some time, maybe clarinet, piano, drums (although in all those cases there will be technical arguments against it). with violin i do not think this is a good idea (besides the technical issues i suppose its not that easy to figure how its supposed to be played)

Edited July 5, 2006 by Niko

[(BB)]

Thanks for the information and opinion.

I think we will look into some singing lessons.

Singing is something she already loves and I worry about her getting too frustrated with an instrument that requires a long learning curve.

I agree that kids are different and what is helpful for some is not for others. Trying your best to find a teaching/education style that matches your kid is really all you can do.

Thanks again,

Bill

[scottb]

My 6 yr old has been playing piano for almost a year now and I've been suprised at well she has done with lessons at such a young age. She has private lessons at her school once a week and she loves it. I think the teacher deserves a lot of credit.

I guess I said that to say this, 5 or 6 is not too young for formal lessons and with the right teacher they can have a great time.

My 2 year old found an old harmonica of mine and has been playing it lately. She loves it. No formal lessons in the near future however.