Just saw the movie, "Bird."

[Parkertown]

Whoa...I mean WHOA. Forest Whitaker is just one of THE greatest actors...ever.

I really enjoyed this. Makes me want to check out more Red Rodney, too.

A few questions:

Did Parker really die in Baroness Nica's apartment?

And in the credits, it showed the songs as being performed by Bird, with Ron Carter and John Guerin...

IMPOSSIBLE!!!

So did they put old Bird solos over new recordings, or what?

And all of Chan's kids weren't necessarily his, right?

Man, what a different time...those poor guys...

[Dan Gould]

Yes, that's where he died. Coroner described the 35 year old body as that of a 65 year old.

As I understand it, for the soundtrack they extracted Bird solos and hired a new band to "play" with him.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Whoa...I mean WHOA. Forest Whitaker is just one of THE greatest actors...ever.

I really enjoyed this. Makes me want to check out more Red Rodney, too.

A few questions:

Did Parker really die in Baroness Nica's apartment?

And in the credits, it showed the songs as being performed by Bird, with Ron Carter and John Guerin...

IMPOSSIBLE!!!

So did they put old Bird solos over new recordings, or what?

And all of Chan's kids weren't necessarily his, right?

Man, what a different time...those poor guys...

I enjoyed the film and have it on VHS (I hope - haven't seen since we moved). I really liked the way Diz was portrayed in the film. Hope that was pretty well the way he was.

Yes - they put old Bird solos over new backing tracks. I feel that was a difficult decision and there are arguments all ways.

MG

[Christiern]

Unfortunately, Clint Eastwood relied heavily on Chan for the story when more reliable sources were available. Let's hope that a honest film on Bird (as well as Billie, Goodman, and countless others) is made someday. Chan was a confused, alcoholic woman with an agenda that did not include getting the right story out. Like her daughter, Kim "Parker" she was an opportunist who shamelessly milked her association with Bird for all that it was worth.

The music involved overdubbing.

[Free For All]

I'm happy to see any jazz artist get the attention of a feature film and I for the most part enjoyed Bird.

My only criticism was that there was too much attention paid to the "dark side". Anyone not previously aware of his genius must have come away wondering "what's the big deal about that junkie loser?".

I wish there had been more attention to his musical creativity and the fact he was quite a well-read (and often big-hearted) person, but that would have made for a less interesting film I guess.

I actually liked Round Midnight a little more, but I still enjoyed Bird.

[Stereojack]

I found the film highly entertaining, but as Chris has said, the film relies too much on the foggy recollections of Chan, and plays very loosely with the facts. Furthermore, while I think Whitaker is a fine actor, he's miscast in this film. Of course I didn't know Bird, but my impression is that he was an outgoing and gregarious person, not the brooding and morose character as portrayed by Whitaker.

The overdubbing of Bird's solos is controversial, but I believe that had Eastwood used original Bird recordings without overdubbing, the low-fi nature of the recordings would not have matched the film sonically. Apparently the owners of Bird's studio recordings were unwilling to allow them to be overdubbed, so he got some live recordings and overdubbed them to suit the film's needs. Within the context of the film, the overdubbing is hardly noticeable, although it's really obvious (and annoying) on the soundtrack album. Frankly, the only alternative would have been to hire a studio musician to imitate Bird, and that would have been worse, in my opinion. Actually, I believe they did get Charles McPherson for a few passages, if I'm not mistaken.

My one gripe about the film is that Bird's brilliance and innovations are not empahsized enough, and the film focuses a little too much on the personal details, and not enough on why the film was made in the first place.

[Larry Kart]

I agree with Chris on the excessive Chan slant in "Bird," though I think Dianne Venora did a much better job in that role than Forrest Whittaker (an actor I usually admire) did as Bird -- admittedly a difficult bordering on impossible role to play. As many have said before, Whittaker's exaggerated physical motions when he's pretending to play are particularly annoying, given that we know that Bird aalmost always stood stock still when playing. My choice for Bird would have been the young James Earl Jones. In the same vein, at a certain age, Eastwood would have made a great Stan Kenton in a biopic.

[jazzbo]

I think they should have called that "The Legend of Charlie Parker" or some such. . . . I like it a lot for what it IS and viewed in that manner.

Glad it got made. Probably should buy a copy to watch. . . haven't seen it in a while.

Scott, lots of good Red Rodney to explore. If you don't have the Savoy sides get 'em. And all the Muse releases I've heard (nearly, mabye all of them) are good jazz to hear.

[JSngry]

Forrest Whittaker would make a good Cannonball.

[Cali]

Had a conversation with Jackie McLean about this film. He HATED it.

[JSngry]

Had a conversation with Jackie McLean about this film. He HATED it.

That was the seemingly unanimous consensus of those who actually knew Bird, as it was with the Ross Russell bio.

[AllenLowe]

I think the coroner estimated 55 -

Nica herself hated the movie and it's very false portrayal of her as some sort of femme fatale; if you recall, Eastwood has her say to Bird, in the movies, "Bird, that was a gas", but she pronounces it with an upper class accent as "goss" - after the first screening of the movie in NYC, Barry Harris told me, Eastwood went up to her and asked her what she thought of the film - she told him, deadpan: "Clint, it was a goss" -

Edited July 2, 2006 by AllenLowe

[garthsj]

I agree with Chris on the excessive Chan slant in "Bird," though I think Dianne Venora did a much better job in that role than Forrest Whittaker (an actor I usually admire) did as Bird -- admittedly a difficult bordering on impossible role to play. As many have said before, Whittaker's exaggerated physical motions when he's pretending to play are particularly annoying, given that we know that Bird aalmost always stood stock still when playing. My choice for Bird would have been the young James Earl Jones. In the same vein, at a certain age, Eastwood would have made a great Stan Kenton in a biopic.

Having studied Hollywood for most of my life (it's what I do for a living!), I think that we can thank our lucky stars (pun intended) that this movie was ever made at all! If it had not been for Clint Eastwood's personal emotional attachment to jazz (and his close friendship with Lennie Niehaus), who is heaven's name would ever have "greenlighted" a major motion picture production about a "black, junkie bebop musician"?

I know that the film has deep flaws, but I must confess that for me it was still a thrill to see a picture about THIS MAN making it to the screen with a fairly significant publicity campaign, and a very successful soundtrack album sale in the aftermarket.

Larry, the Kentonites on the Kenton Board have wanted Eastwood to make (and star in) the Stan Kenton story for many years now. Now ... who in Hollywood would be willing to greenlight THAT story .. and why?

Regarding Goodman, and Billie .... hmmmm .. does anyone really remember Goodman? On the other hand, with so many promising young black film directors and acting talent now available, I would not be too surprised to see an "accurate" Billie Holiday biopic sometime in the future ... After all, the black population goes to movies at an attendance rate almost 50% more than their white counterparts, and films about black stars (see RAY) do attract white audiences. (Yes, I realize that Billie was a "black, junkie jazz singer" -- but her story has a much more compelling story arc for a movie plot).

Edited July 2, 2006 by garthsj

[AllenLowe]

as for Russell's book, the musicians I knew who knew Bird and who read the book - Howard McGhee, Curely Russell, Al Haig, Tommy Potter - were unanimous in telling me that, when it concerned incidents with which they were directly familiar, it was pure fiction -

[Harold_Z]

I know some muisician friends and bandmates of mine who were offended by the omission in the movie of any mention of Max Roach and the emphasis on Red Rodney, they felt at Max's expense, and they saw a racial angle in this. At the time, my comment was that the black-white angle was "better Hollywood". Not really a justification but more a comment on what I thought motivated the writers.

[Cali]

Heard this, too. Also, how could Rodney be a more central figure than Dizzy?

[Christiern]

garthsj:

"Having studied Hollywood for most of my life (it's what I do for a living!), I think that we can thank our lucky stars (pun intended) that this movie was ever made at all! If it had not been for Clint Eastwood's personal emotional attachment to jazz (and his close friendship with Lennie Niehaus), who is heaven's name would ever have "greenlighted" a major motion picture production about a 'black, junkie bebop musician'?"

Garth, Hollywood may well shrink back in horror at the thought of devoting a biopic to a white junkie, but they obviously accepted Eastwood's production even though he emphasized Bird's drug life. Also, remember that horrid attempt at depicting Billie's life--it dwelled on drugs, too. As a matter of fact, Warner Brothers may we have turned down an adaptation of my Bessie Smith biography because she wasn't on drugs. Here's an excerpt from the revised edition of my book.:

Film studios rely on outside readers for initial evaluations of new books. A 1972 Warner Brothers reader’s report on Bessie, gave a summation of Bessie Smith’s life as the book depicted it, but concluded that this was not recommended film material, because “Bessie Smith was not on drugs, and this is not the five-handkerchief stuff that ‘Lady Sings the Blues’ is made of.”

[mikeweil]

Forrest Whittaker would make a good Cannonball.

He would make a perfect Cannonball - if Cannon's life was spectacular enough to make a movie out of it ...

[mikeweil]

as for Russell's book, the musicians I knew who knew Bird and who read the book - Howard McGhee, Curely Russell, Al Haig, Tommy Potter - were unanimous in telling me that, when it concerned incidents with which they were directly familiar, it was pure fiction -

I remember reading similar things about it.

[garthsj]

garthsj:

"Having studied Hollywood for most of my life (it's what I do for a living!), I think that we can thank our lucky stars (pun intended) that this movie was ever made at all! If it had not been for Clint Eastwood's personal emotional attachment to jazz (and his close friendship with Lennie Niehaus), who is heaven's name would ever have "greenlighted" a major motion picture production about a 'black, junkie bebop musician'?"

Garth, Hollywood may well shrink back in horror at the thought of devoting a biopic to a white junkie, but they obviously accepted Eastwood's production even though he emphasized Bird's drug life. Also, remember that horrid attempt at depicting Billie's life--it dwelled on drugs, too. As a matter of fact, Warner Brothers may we have turned down an adaptation of my Bessie Smith biography because she wasn't on drugs. Here's an excerpt from the revised edition of my book.:

Film studios rely on outside readers for initial evaluations of new books. A 1972 Warner Brothers reader’s report on Bessie, gave a summation of Bessie Smith’s life as the book depicted it, but concluded that this was not recommended film material, because “Bessie Smith was not on drugs, and this is not the five-handkerchief stuff that ‘Lady Sings the Blues’ is made of.”

Chris,

I totally empathize with what you are saying and the reaction to your Bessie Smith project. Maybe you should have emphasized the "sex" angle ...

Seriously, I have this running dialogue with my students in my "Social Aspects of Film" class which centers around the question: "Who, in God's Name, approved the making of this film, and why did they think it would attract an audience?" It is, ultimately a difficult question to answer ... but makes for an interesting and spirited discussion.

But .. MEDJUCK!! Where are you? .. No one is better equipped to answer this question than you are. Tell us why some films are made, and others are not!

Edited July 3, 2006 by garthsj

[Larry Kart]

Larry, the Kentonites on the Kenton Board have wanted Eastwood to make (and star in) the Stan Kenton story for many years now. Now ... who in Hollywood would be willing to greenlight THAT story .. and why?

I think a great story could be quarried from Kenton's life -- the tale of a charismatic semi-megalomanic

a la Howard Hughes who made a music in his own image. And that last part could be translated into cinematic-musical terms that I think anyone could grasp. (In that vein, one oft he problems of "'Round Midnight" was that the plot required Dale Turner's musical resurrection to take place before his musical and literal demise, but Dexter himself was so far gone at the time that no such musical resurrection could be heard -- and even if it had been possible for him to significantly increase the strength of his playing, would the majority of the audience been able to hear the difference?)

BTW, I see Eastwood's old friend and fellow onetime Kenton devotee Mort Sahl working on the script of ... what else, "Artistry in Rhythm."

[Alexander]

as for Russell's book, the musicians I knew who knew Bird and who read the book - Howard McGhee, Curely Russell, Al Haig, Tommy Potter - were unanimous in telling me that, when it concerned incidents with which they were directly familiar, it was pure fiction -

It may be pure fiction, but read with Russell's various biases in mind (and taken with a generous grain of salt) it is a VERY entertaining read. It plays to legend rather than fact, but it's a real page turner!

As to the "Bird" film, I just revisited this the other night (I own it on DVD, along with several other music related films). I do find Whittaker's miming on the saxophone to be distracting. You only have to watch "Round Midnight" to see that when saxophonists really play that don't move their fingers all that much (even when playing a "fast" number). Not being a musician I can't say for sure, but it sure looks fake to me.

That said, I think that Whittaker gives a very moving performance, potraying all aspects of Parker's personality (including his good humor and joie de vivre). Yes, he spends a lot of time being bitter and angry, but the film is largely set in Bird's last days when he was a much less vibrant figure than he was in his youth. While I've always been miffed about the exclusion of Max Roach and (especially) Miles from the film, I've always loved the wonderful scene when Parker describes a recording session with Diz, Miles, and Fats Navarro. It's really sad when he talks about Fats' passing. I also like the way the famous telegrams from LA are depicted. Whittaker really shows Parker's shifting state of mind.

Edited July 3, 2006 by Alexander

[Stereojack]

While I've always been miffed about the exclusion of Max Roach and (especially) Miles from the film,

I can't say I know the whole story, but I remember hearing that Miles was not willing to allow himself to be portrayed in the film - I guess portraying a living person in a film requires getting the permission of said person. Perhaps this is the case with Max, as well. I do know that Chan and Red Rodney were involved as advisors (or more), and this is why they figure so prominently in the film.

[fasstrack]

Unfortunately, Clint Eastwood relied heavily on Chan for the story when more reliable sources were available. Let's hope that a honest film on Bird (as well as Billie, Goodman, and countless others) is made someday. Chan was a confused, alcoholic woman with an agenda that did not include getting the right story out. Like her daughter, Kim "Parker" she was an opportunist who shamelessly milked her association with Bird for all that it was worth.

The music involved overdubbing.

Jesus, calm down, will you? You are so dark and seem to be bent on exposing or 'outing' jazz people. WTF is up with that? Like your charming little vignette about Dizzy's supposed bisexuality. True or not, who the fuck are you to be talking about that on the Internet? Takes a lot of balls, BTW, after the man is in his grave....

Chan Richardson was married to the man. She had to know something, for chrissakes, even if there is a grain of truth to your bitter little analysis.

I truly hope for your sake you are not this sour all the time.

[Christiern]

Get out on the wrong side of the bed, did we?