How important is it to be appreciated?

[fasstrack]

Today I played for a graduation event for the children leaving a private school that I am to begin teaching for shortly. I spoke to a really wonderful lady who is a committed lifetime educator, and well along in years at that. One could easily see that in her soul she was good, good, good. In the course of the conversation I was mentioning that with this job and some other things that have happened all at once lately it seems like I'm finally just might be in a place that both wants and appreciates me and I do the same back.

Her rejoinder was that appreciation is necessary, even primal. I had so much respect for her that I thought and rethought my own cynicism re the good ever being rewarded adequately in appreciation. I had to rethink all the advice that I was given and my hardened heart accepted. Stuff like 'if you expect your ticket to be punched in this life, boy are you in for a rough ride', etc. I wonder now if she is in fact right and those other cynics (by definition, after all, one-time-idealists trying really hard not to get hurt) wrong.

Who's right? She? They? Monte Rock III? Nobody?

[PHILLYQ]

My own take, perhaps cynical, is that if you expect to be appreciated you may be in for a letdown. I have to do what I do at work, at home, etc. regardless of whether or not anyone appreciates what I do. I certainly enjoy any appreciation that comes my way, but I don't really expect it and it doesn't stop me from doing what I need to do. Your mileage may vary.

[fasstrack]

I don't expect it, but do need it.

One time when I was about 18 I went to the Vanguard to hear Yusef Lateef. For reasons I still don't quite understand I approached him. I told him some stupid crap about being an up-and-coming musician (I couldn't wipe my musical ass, of course) and this and that and what did he think, etc. His answer, after putting me in my place (I had had the temerity in my youthful social ineptness to have used profanity and this was a very pious man) was that "we can play in the woods for the squirrels and chipmunks if all we wanted to do was play (and not be appreciated)".

I ran into Mr. Lateef (by then probably 80 or close to it) 2 years ago and approached him again as a somewhat wiser man. I told him how much I appreciated him taking the time to address the sincere but inept questions of young man seeking answers. He was so happy---so appreciative---to hear that he just about glowed.

Edited June 21, 2006 by fasstrack

[JSngry]

The key to maturity, I think, is realizing that the only appreciation that matters is that from those who are going after the same things you are. That's real life. Everything else is just a career game to played as you do or no not see fit.

For me, the list always starts with my wife, and ends with a very small handful of individuals from various other activities (including music) that I'm involved in.

The appreciation of one person who really knows is infinitely more valuable than that of 1,000,000 people who don't. The key is in knowing who does or doesn't really know. And that involves knowing, really knowing, yourself.

Just my opinion.

[fasstrack]

The key to maturity, I think, is realizing that the only appreciation that matters is that from those who are going after the same things you are. That's real life. Everything else is just a career game to played as you do or no not see fit.

For me, the list always starts with my wife, and ends with a very small handful of individuals from various other activities (including music) that I'm involved in.

The appreciation of one person who really knows is infinitely more valuable than that of 1,000,000 people who don't. The key is in knowing who does or doesn't really know. And that involves knowing, really knowing, yourself.

Just my opinion.

I'm not sure I agree. Or maybe we're sort of saying the same thing and I'm too stupid to see it right away.

I mean the reason I started the thread in part is that after knocking my brains out in the overcrowded and at times virulently viscious NY jazz scene and getting little work or appreciation* I did what a lot of guys talk about: I found my own little scene where I'm the man. I finally met someone who wants what I want to give and will pay me. I wanted a place for one-stop-shopping where I could teach the kids, (since I was already doing that and doing a lot of running around with no benefits, etc. It's been mad tough) have a forum for my desire to hear my music for choral group and small jazz group, and bring in my group and other cats to play and do Q & A with the kids, maybe teach and encourage songwriting, etc. I found a woman who wants someone like me and is willing to pay me and also at least listen to, if not help me live, some of my dreams. And it's off the 'big circuit' and that's fine with me. People need music everywhere, not just in downtown Manhattan. If anything they need it more in more 'remote' locales.

But as far as this me-against-the-world thinking that, unless I'm wrong, I sort of read into what you're saying I'm sort of done with that. I'm as much a rebel as the next guy and with a pretty uncompromising personality and worldview but I believe in reaching people. The role of a working musician, regardless of how creative; original; special; etc. he thinks he (or she) is, has traditionally been a utilitarian one. Without an audience to pay to hear us or someone to pay for lessons, etc. we don't have a job, unless you consider Mr. Lateef's proposal a job. I hear the chipmunks don't pay shit, though . I am an employee when paid for my services and feel that it's my job to reach people that are listening some kind of way on a human level and I've always tried to do that. I've done it without playing down to anyone or talking down to the children I teach.

So yesterday was kind of a turning point for me appreciation-wise. I played the guitar the way I always have, was given a few features as a soloist and played St. Thomas (because the people were 90% Carribbean) and asked for the mic to dedicate Sophisticated Lady to the woman I initially mentioned and all the women that were working to teach these children to be sophisticated (among other things, naturally). I just played from the heart and let the chips fall. At the end of the event the woman that hired me came over to me and said the songs were beautiful and appropriate. And she's not a musician or 'hip' like we think we are. Other people also came up and said thanks for the music. And that meant a lot to me, you know?

(*whether anyone else concurs about said scene is up for discussion but there can be no denying that it is cash starved and everyone is vieing (sp?) for the same gigs and props, so it seems)

Edited June 21, 2006 by fasstrack

[fasstrack]

The key to maturity, I think, is realizing that the only appreciation that matters is that from those who are going after the same things you are. That's real life. Everything else is just a career game to played as you do or no not see fit.

For me, the list always starts with my wife, and ends with a very small handful of individuals from various other activities (including music) that I'm involved in.

The appreciation of one person who really knows is infinitely more valuable than that of 1,000,000 people who don't. The key is in knowing who does or doesn't really know. And that involves knowing, really knowing, yourself.

Just my opinion.

OK. Now it's penetrated my dense skull and I basically agree. The compliments I've gotten from my betters in music, let alone my peers, have carried me a long way through some rough times and are still here in memory in the good times. Appreciation from someone who knows and does it as well as you or better is the best possible kind of appreciation---though I still think it's all good and my previous comments hold.

Edited June 21, 2006 by fasstrack

[JSngry]

Well, you didn't ask if appreciation was good, or if it was uplifting. Of course it is. Who doesn't like to be appreciated?

You ask if it was important. And I stick by my answer.

I mean, yeah, it's gratifying to get a hearty round of applause for a chorus or two from strangers somewhere. That always feels good. But is it important? Do you define your worth or lack thereof by it? Can't say that I see much good in being at the mercy of strangers all the time...

Otoh, appreciation or lack thereof for those same choruses from somebody who you know is on the same page as you, well, that's the type of thing that either confirms your instincts or causes you to reevaluate.

Of course, I guess it depends on who's on your page. There's the White Pages, and then there's your private phone book, if you know what I mean. They each serve a useful purpose, but I'm not sure if having too much of an overlap between the two is the way to go.

Again, just my opinion.

[Dave James]

Appreciation is like respect. It must be earned.

Up over and out.

[jazzbo]

Appreciation is glue. Appreciation is salve. Appreciation is grease.

It's important.

Just think of long stretches in your life when you didn't have it. . . . Were they "Happy Days"?

[fasstrack]

Do you define your worth or lack thereof by it?

Hell no. Not even close. But if you're a performing artist you need people to come and to come back otherwise you're out of a job. That's all I meant.

The audience also needs to be appreciated and not ignored or even abused as I've seen some ill-advised (I'm being rather restrained and polite here) cats do. I don't mean kiss anyone's ass or be phony. I mean 'thanks for coming out' and maybe talking a bit to them. They want to feel needed too. So in that sense it is important. Crucial even.

But my own self-worth is defined by my own values and standards. Period.

[JSngry]

my own self-worth is defined by my own values and standards. Period.

Exactly. And the appreciation of those values and standards by those who share and best understand them is what is ultimately going to be important over the long haul. Everything else is nice, and nice is important in the cumulative, but it don't build/reinforce a core.

I dunno, maybe I'm overthingking the original question. Maybe you were just asking if it was nice to be geberally appreciated. Well, yeah, of course it's nice. But since that's a given, and since general appreciation is something that comes and goes like a feather in the wind, I figured the question was a little more inticate than that. Perhaps not?

[fasstrack]

I dunno, maybe I'm overthinking the original question. Maybe you were just asking if it was nice to be generally appreciated. Well, yeah, of course it's nice. But since that's a given, and since general appreciation is something that comes and goes like a feather in the wind, I figured the question was a little more intricate than that. Perhaps not?

I asked if it was important based on what that woman said because it got me thinking.

BTW I just corrected your spelling. Hope you appreciate it. .

[JSngry]

Myh spelling is usually fine. It's my typing that sucks, especially on a laptop.

Who can't appreciate that?

[fasstrack]

Myh spelling is usually fine. It's my typing that sucks, especially on a laptop.

Who can't appreciate that?

And another thing. That cooking of yours.....

[JSngry]

Hey, I told you we needed a new microwave.

[fasstrack]

Hey, I told you we needed a new microwave.