What happened to those Selects?

[Edlock8718]

Great, so we now have tentative release dates for the next batch of Mosaic Singles and box sets (the Chu Berry even gives us something to look forward to for 2007!), but whatever happened to those McCoy Tyner and Tony Williams Selects? Has anybody received any word on when (and if) these sets will be coming out? Is there any chance of them filling the apparent hole in Mosaic's release calendar between June and October?

More importantly, was I complete schmuck for selling my fairly rare copies of the Tyner albums in anticipation of this release?

[Chuck Nessa]

More importantly, was I complete schmuck for selling my fairly rare copies of the Tyner albums in anticipation of this release?

How rare wer your copies?

[Ken Dryden]

From Mosaic's website:

Future Projects

Mosaic Select: McCoy Tyner (3 CDs)

This set contains all six sessions recorded by Tyner for Blue Note between August 1968 and September 1970. This includes "Expansions," "Extension," "Asante" and three sessions not issued at the time which later appeared on the double album "Cosmos." This was one of Tyner's most overlooked and highly creative periods.

The first three have been reissued on CD, though I don't know if they're still in print at this moment. They should be easy to find. A little tougher to acquire may be the 2 LP set Cosmos, though I can't imagine it would be a long, hard, expensive search.

Edited June 13, 2006 by Ken Dryden

[Edlock8718]

From Mosaic's website:

Future Projects

Mosaic Select: McCoy Tyner (3 CDs)

This set contains all six sessions recorded by Tyner for Blue Note between August 1968 and September 1970. This includes "Expansions," "Extension," "Asante" and three sessions not issued at the time which later appeared on the double album "Cosmos." This was one of Tyner's most overlooked and highly creative periods.

The first three have been reissued on CD, though I don't know if they're still in print at this moment. They should be easy to find. A little tougher to acquire may be the 2 LP set Cosmos, though I can't imagine it would be a long, hard, expensive search.

Yeah, I don't believe "Expansions," "Extension" and "Asante" would be impossible to find - that's why I used the term "relatively rare." I stumbled upon them over a period of time quite by accident in used CDs shops, after several years of buying every single BN release from the 50s and 60s I could find new. I don't think they'd be that hard to find for anybody who knew where to look or was willing to pay for a nice import, but I don't think they're readily available in the local Tower.

I really don't understand what the delay on these Selects might be. Mosaic has had such a great working relationship with BN in the past that I can't believe the problem is in putting together the materials. Has BN's purchase by EMI - or maybe the relative success of the RVGs - led to a dampening of things?

[Parkertown]

Why the urgency? There's shitloads of other Mosaics. Got all those?

That being said, I've got a couple of the Tyners, and they're real nice. I've never heard the Williams material. I'd have to say I did not like the direction his music went as the Seventies progressed (that I've heard).

That "Million Dollar Legs" stuff... no thanks. What's the music coming on the Select like?

[jlhoots]

Why the urgency? There's shitloads of other Mosaics. Got all those?

That being said, I've got a couple of the Tyners, and they're real nice. I've never heard the Williams material. I'd have to say I did not like the direction his music went as the Seventies progressed (that I've heard).

That "Million Dollar Legs" stuff... no thanks. What's the music coming on the Select like?

It's NOT like Million Dollar Legs.

[jazzbo]

It's definitely not like Million Dollar Legs. It's traditional jazz quintet instrumenation, postMilesbop style.

[jazzbo]

I think that the delay is not even real. Mosaic may have made an error in showing their hand on future projects so far in advance if people are tired of waiting! They've probably concentrated on other sets, and will soon turn to these. Would make good Xmas presents, maybe that's the plan.

[David Ayers]

I know that people want to hear that Tyner stuff but, in honesty, the anticipation might create over-excitement and expectations that the music can't easily meet. I sold my CD of Expansions once, bought another, now I think maybe I'll sell it again. That is the rare one of the three CDs and the best. I'd say anyone who cares already has Asante and Extension (and quite likely sold them) and they are easy to find. If it is a question of Cosmos on CD I'd be happier to see that as a separate release. This way buyers are duplicating just to get this album. Not as bad as the Hipnosis case maybe, but in the same camp.

[mikeweil]

It's definitely not like Million Dollar Legs. It's traditional jazz quintet instrumenation, postMilesbop style.

Someone mockingly called this band Tony Williams & The Jazz Messengers ......

... no wonder: with Wallace Roney, Billy Pierce, and Mulgrew Miller three ex-Messengers were on board.

Expect Tony-Williams-Drumstyle fired advanced hard bop. He wrote almost all of the tunes, and they're interesting.

[king ubu]

I know that people want to hear that Tyner stuff but, in honesty, the anticipation might create over-excitement and expectations that the music can't easily meet. I sold my CD of Expansions once, bought another, now I think maybe I'll sell it again. That is the rare one of the three CDs and the best. I'd say anyone who cares already has Asante and Extension (and quite likely sold them) and they are easy to find. If it is a question of Cosmos on CD I'd be happier to see that as a separate release. This way buyers are duplicating just to get this album. Not as bad as the Hipnosis case maybe, but in the same camp.

I guess I agree... have "Asante" and "Extensions", also found "Time for Tyner" before it got RVG-ed, but none of these really do a lot for me. In general, Tyner doesn't do a lot for me, sometimes not even in Coltrane's classic group (I'd have considered this statement blasphemy a few years ago... same applies to Garrison in Trane's band... more blasphemy).

What's the deal with "Hipnosis"? Only available on the Moncur Select? Since I never managed to find the Conn edition of "Evolution" I'll eventually go for the Moncur, although I have the Conns of "Some Other Stuff" and "'bout Soul".

[jazzbo]

BLASPHEMER!

I don't agree about Tyner and Garrison in the Quartet, but you've the right to feel that way. I think they were necessary ingredients in the Trane stew, and their flavor was just the thing.l

I like the "Cosmos" session best of the Tyners and have all the others on cd release so I too would rather see a single release!

[king ubu]

I don't agree about Tyner and Garrison in the Quartet, but you've the right to feel that way. I think they were necessary ingredients in the Trane stew, and their flavor was just the thing.l

I see it that way, too... and I love the quartet, but still... if I listen to a Tyner solo as such, even in the context of the quartet and the overall great music, I often find nothing much in it that I like... the Garrison accompaniment is good, felt bass, sure, but the solos are totally off of the rest of the music, they don't have anything to do with what follows, just the poor guy who couldn't play loud enough needed to get his share of solo space, too, so he does his flamenco thing... true, when I heard one of those long intros for the first time, I was impressed, but it's just too much of the same for my ears by now...

So back on topic: if "Cosmos" is that good and I also still miss "Expansions", I might eventually get the Select...

[Parkertown]

Why the urgency? There's shitloads of other Mosaics. Got all those?

That being said, I've got a couple of the Tyners, and they're real nice. I've never heard the Williams material. I'd have to say I did not like the direction his music went as the Seventies progressed (that I've heard).

That "Million Dollar Legs" stuff... no thanks. What's the music coming on the Select like?

It's NOT like Million Dollar Legs.

It's definitely not like Million Dollar Legs. It's traditional jazz quintet instrumenation, postMilesbop style.

Whew! That's good to know!

I may give it a go then...

[Ken Dryden]

I can't say that any of the Tyner CDs that will be included in a Mosaic Select set is among my favorites. Better are his solo Blue Note efforts, the duet with Bobby Hutcherson, and meeting with Jackie McLean (It's About Time).

My guess is that Mosaic is giving some folks a chance to save up their money for future projects by promoting them way in advance. I doubt that their relationship with EMI has deteriorated all that much and I doubt that Blue Note will focus on much of the material that Mosaic seeks to lease these days.

[Bluerein]

Williams in November and Tyner next spring.

[jazzbo]

I don't agree about Tyner and Garrison in the Quartet, but you've the right to feel that way. I think they were necessary ingredients in the Trane stew, and their flavor was just the thing.l

I see it that way, too... and I love the quartet, but still... if I listen to a Tyner solo as such, even in the context of the quartet and the overall great music, I often find nothing much in it that I like... the Garrison accompaniment is good, felt bass, sure, but the solos are totally off of the rest of the music, they don't have anything to do with what follows, just the poor guy who couldn't play loud enough needed to get his share of solo space, too, so he does his flamenco thing... true, when I heard one of those long intros for the first time, I was impressed, but it's just too much of the same for my ears by now...

So back on topic: if "Cosmos" is that good and I also still miss "Expansions", I might eventually get the Select...

Well, I just differ I guess. I like what McCoy does in the Quartet, especially some live spots, and I like him IN the Quartet a lot more than outside the quartet. And Garrison. . . he anchors that whole band, he's a huge centrifuge that keeps it all spinning but not flying apart, amazing talent in the Quartet and out. And there's much in those solos if you ask me, at least I hear quite a bit in the way he constructs them.

I sincerely think that Trane knew EXACTLY what he wanted and he had it in these cats and Elveen. Without one of these ingredients, it wouldn't have been the same, and I've no complaints.

[Edlock8718]

Williams in November and Tyner next spring.

Thanks, Reinier. Where do you get your info?

[Chuck Nessa]

I believe Reiner gets his info directly.

I greatly prefer McCoy's late BNs and early Milestones to the rest of his "name" recordings.

[Bluerein]

Thanks Chuck for answering the question!!!!!

[king ubu]

I don't agree about Tyner and Garrison in the Quartet, but you've the right to feel that way. I think they were necessary ingredients in the Trane stew, and their flavor was just the thing.l

I see it that way, too... and I love the quartet, but still... if I listen to a Tyner solo as such, even in the context of the quartet and the overall great music, I often find nothing much in it that I like... the Garrison accompaniment is good, felt bass, sure, but the solos are totally off of the rest of the music, they don't have anything to do with what follows, just the poor guy who couldn't play loud enough needed to get his share of solo space, too, so he does his flamenco thing... true, when I heard one of those long intros for the first time, I was impressed, but it's just too much of the same for my ears by now...

So back on topic: if "Cosmos" is that good and I also still miss "Expansions", I might eventually get the Select...

Well, I just differ I guess. I like what McCoy does in the Quartet, especially some live spots, and I like him IN the Quartet a lot more than outside the quartet. And Garrison. . . he anchors that whole band, he's a huge centrifuge that keeps it all spinning but not flying apart, amazing talent in the Quartet and out. And there's much in those solos if you ask me, at least I hear quite a bit in the way he constructs them.

I sincerely think that Trane knew EXACTLY what he wanted and he had it in these cats and Elveen. Without one of these ingredients, it wouldn't have been the same, and I've no complaints.

Time to play some Trane again, I guess... it's been some time...

I do agree generally about Tyner in the Coltrane quartet or on his own... and I do agree about the Coltrane quartet being a terrific band... but still, on this comparatively very high level, not all is perfection, and I often find Tyner and Garrison's spot less captivating than the the Trane solos or those often terrific duo passages of Trane and Elvin...

Chuck, the Blue Note dates included in the Mosaic, are these the "later" ones? Earlier ones then being "The Real McCoy", "Time for Tyner" and that other one that recently came out on CD (Tender Feelin's or something)?

[Bluerein]

now it's my turn to answer on Chuck's behalf......

Only the later BN sessions. For details see the Mosaic upcoming page.

[king ubu]

now it's my turn to answer on Chuck's behalf......

Only the later BN sessions. For details see the Mosaic upcoming page.

Only you're taking a turn answering?

So it *is* the later BN sessions that are included in the Select, yes?

[mikeweil]

So it *is* the later BN sessions that are included in the Select, yes?

Yes.

From the Mosaic Future Projects page:

Mosaic Select: McCoy Tyner (3 CDs)

This set contains all six sessions recorded by Tyner for Blue Note between August 1968 and September 1970. This includes "Expansions," "Extension," "Asante" and three sessions not issued at the time which later appeared on the double album "Cosmos." This was one of Tyner's most overlooked and highly creative periods.

..... I already sold my LP copy of Cosmos .....

Edited June 15, 2006 by mikeweil

[andybleaden]

Nice set...got all the cds save for a cdr ( )of cosmos so I will be definately getting this one and binning that...I did like his later stuff I must admit so this is a good choice

I had the LPs previoulsy so this is third time now.....

I had better get on and sell the cds I guess

Andy