Guy Berger Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 As I've said before, the bass should be heard but not heard. If one must solo, make it quick and make it pizzicato. Agree with Ken as to Chambers' arco ability. It always sounded to me like someone getting mugged in an alley. I love the recordings of The Red Garland trio on Prestige, but I still run for cover when Chambers cranks up a bowed solo. Not nearly as bad as Ron Carter on the cello. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hmmm... I love Chambers' bowing. But then I typically dig bass solos of all kinds. Drum solos on the other hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybleaden Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Na I never liked the Gerald Wilson and should have steared clear of that one. I also bought and rarely play the Jimmy Smith one ( I like Houseparty,Sermon,Open House etc) but the set never moved me at all. I bought , liked , then went off the JJ Johnson set although maybe I go through periods with that one so leave that off Maybe just the G Wilson and the Smith Mind you I do try to get a listen to some of the unknown stuff before I order .....so with Blue Note it was always a safe bet for me....with the Jack Teagarden....Count Basie...not my my bag really so cannot comment I do regret there decision not to do a whole John Patton-a-thon type of box which I think could have given him rightful place. I also think they were a little daft not cashing in on the Grant Green/Lee Morgan/Hank Mobley popularity and issuing more of the commercial stuff in smaller box sets ...but that is a business decision I guess....I thought they could have made a little more cash that way Lastly I have spent many a time thinking that the japanese showed a real edge in marketing the 1500/4000 series on lp and cd........imagine a set of sets on these...outtakes/interviews/real notes/photos/essays etc I know the objections but they were a real legacy that could have been mined more deeply You imagine how using the resources available to Mosaic and techie advances how the Japanese could have made a real nioce set...if they could ...so could Mosaic...couldn't they My point in case is the Monk trane release recently...with video plugs/interviews etc...I just think that perhaps the ol Black box approach could do with a brush off and spruce up ....and ( bet you wish you had never asked now!) I could never understand and still do not why they do not put the artwork of the releases in the booklet...they have started to do this with the select sets and it works.... SO there is my two pennies worth Next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 I haven't bought a Mosaic box in about 4 years - at this point almost every box I own is OOP. The bad ones, boxes I'll sell when I have the time to photograph them and list them on e-bay, are Blue Mitchell (I just don't like his sound at all and dislike him more the more I hear), Illinois Jacquet (I like some Jacquet, but not most of this material), Bud Shank (not bad, but not exciting and not something I ever pull of the shelf), Woody Shaw (not bad, but not what I really enjoy, I guess it's too contemporary) and Jimmy Smith (I like his later BNs, but this box of material all recorded in February 1957 is too 'samey' and I can't listen to more than a couple of songs without being bored) and I'll have to try listening to Andrew Hill and Sam Rivers again, but I don't think those were good purchases either and they will probably go out the door. These boxes date back to the old days when I was buying almost every Mosaic that was running low and my tastes were very experimental. Those days are long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 (edited) As far as I'm concerned my only bad Mosaic decisions was not buying more. I love pretty much all the the ones dissed herein (Dinah especially). Their only bad decision is letting some of you ungrateful %$#@*! buy their precious masterpieces... (just kidding, well sorta). OK, I have to admit I don't quite follow the selection logic on the John Patton Mosaic Select... Edited June 17, 2006 by danasgoodstuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave James Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Someone better run for cover. There are quite a number of rabid Patton fans on this board. Up over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 I didn't say I didn't like the music (I love it), I just don't get the logic of putting those particular albums together as opposed to a different selection or just all of 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Part of the problem you may have with Chambers' bowed bass solos is that he really wasn't in the league of Milt Hinton, Michael Moore and others who have far better technique playing arco bass. Then again...maybe you just don't like bowed bass solos! I dunno, I'm not familiar with those guys so I'm not going to completely dismiss the very notion of bowed bass. It's possible it's just him. Then again, I'm not too crazy about any bass solos... except very very short ones. You're not familiar with Milt Hinton (probably one of the most recorded bassists in the history of music)? Or Michael Moore (known for his work with Gene Bertoncini, currently with the Dave Brubeck Quartet and also on a fair number of other recordings)? You really should check them out, as their work is far superior to any Paul Chambers' bowed solo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face of the Bass Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 had to sell the Paul Chambers because I can't stand bowed bass solos Blasphemer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face of the Bass Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Part of the problem you may have with Chambers' bowed bass solos is that he really wasn't in the league of Milt Hinton, Michael Moore and others who have far better technique playing arco bass. Then again...maybe you just don't like bowed bass solos! Another blasphemer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Part of the problem you may have with Chambers' bowed bass solos is that he really wasn't in the league of Milt Hinton, Michael Moore and others who have far better technique playing arco bass. Then again...maybe you just don't like bowed bass solos! Chambers' bowed bass playing was very often very out of tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 had to sell the Paul Chambers because I can't stand bowed bass solos Blasphemer! Part of the problem you may have with Chambers' bowed bass solos is that he really wasn't in the league of Milt Hinton, Michael Moore and others who have far better technique playing arco bass. Then again...maybe you just don't like bowed bass solos! Another blasphemer!! Nonsense, there's nothing blasphemous about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 I've been disappointed with the sound on some of the sets. To my ears the sound varies from absolutely awful to excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Given that Cuscuna is a major influence in what appears on both Mosaic and Blue Note, my major regret is his apparent extreme dislike of the Three Sounds and Les McCann, which has kept their catalogs conspicuously out of print in the US while other Blue Note and Pacific Jazz titles get continually reissued over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 (edited) Cuscuna has written v. nice things about the Sounds in liner notes, at least the first incarnation, I don't think he digs the later stuff after they came back to BN nearly as much. I think he runs kinda hot & cold on Les too but I'm not so sure of this... Edited June 19, 2006 by danasgoodstuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerein Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 MC likes the Sounds trio but he thinks a Mosaic set would be too much of the same (and too big a set). Les McCann will get a Select in the future. Maybe a Select for the Sounds as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 But I thought he was thinking about a Select. This is just taking too long to get some sort of a release, even a RVG or a Conn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 (edited) I don't know whether or not Michael Cuscuna actually likes The Three Sounds and Les McCann or not, but I think he has to consider whether or not such a set by either Harris' trio or McCann will sell enough copies. I think the earlier edition of the Three Sounds is far better than the later groups, as the change in drummers definitely gave the group too commercial a sound. McCann's music has never been of much interest to me, though I imagine that his stuff would sell if they would reissue his Pacific Jazz titles. Edited June 19, 2006 by Ken Dryden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 It would be better, in my opinion, if they put the "classic" Three Sounds out as separate releases, one every six months or so, utilizing the JRVG mastering for example when applicable. This I think would be a cool way to get all these lps out on cd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave James Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 FYI, I got a note back from Mosaic last week in response to a suggestion that they consider putting together sets from Earl Bostic and Georgie Auld. They said they had tried to gain access to the Bostic material from King Records, but that their overtures had been rebuffed. They were more receptive to the Auld idea saying that this suggestion was of some interest to them. They may just be patronizing me, but as long as there's even a ray of hope, Lonesome Dave is a happy camper. Up over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Part of the problem you may have with Chambers' bowed bass solos is that he really wasn't in the league of Milt Hinton, Michael Moore and others who have far better technique playing arco bass. Then again...maybe you just don't like bowed bass solos! Chambers' bowed bass playing was very often very out of tune. Now that you mention it, Chambers sounds out of tune to me on other recordings too--particularly the Coltrane/Burrell one. I always figured it was just the recording or the remastering (which it may be, but the tuning is a factor I hadn't considered). Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face of the Bass Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Chambers' bowed bass playing was very often very out of tune. Specific examples, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Chambers' bowed bass playing was very often very out of tune. Specific examples, please. Just listen to his own Blue Notes (compiled on the Chambers Mosaic Select) and you get lots of examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face of the Bass Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Chambers' bowed bass playing was very often very out of tune. Specific examples, please. Just listen to his own Blue Notes (compiled on the Chambers Mosaic Select) and you get lots of examples. I have listened to it many times. I was hoping you could list a specific solo that demonstrates the point you are trying to make, so I could evaluate for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Don't have any regrets with the various Mosaics I purchased. As far as I am concerned, Mosaic's worst decision was abandoning their vinyls Exactly! And if you don't like the works of an artist BEFORE, you shouldn't buy his Mosaic set. Cuscuna isn't Harry Potter: he can't transform Chico Hamilton in Max Roach or Art Blakey. Though I understand the concern about the sound quality of some their remastering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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