slide_advantage_redoux Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 This may have been brought up in these pages before, but just in case it hasn't, I wanted to share it. I discovered this on YouTube...what a great source for vidoes. Unfortunately this clip doesn't show Charlie Parker playing, but he is on tape speaking (albeit briefly). The MC speaks very typically for the era when he says "you boys...", but considering the period, I am not surprised. Check out the young Leonard Feather. I like how Bird says that he prefers to make his opinions made by playing (with a smirk on his face IMO). Check it out. Wish it were longer. http://youtube.com/watch?v=E-BPMVnzFU0&sea...harlie%20parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 I've seen this before but I can't remember where and the clip does show them playing. Good stuff, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 This is the performance that followed that spoken introduction: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q7mjfZ9owzY&sea...harlie%20parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 This may have been brought up in these pages before, but just in case it hasn't, I wanted to share it. I discovered this on YouTube...what a great source for vidoes. Unfortunately this clip doesn't show Charlie Parker playing, but he is on tape speaking (albeit briefly). The MC speaks very typically for the era when he says "you boys...", but considering the period, I am not surprised. Check out the young Leonard Feather. I like how Bird says that he prefers to make his opinions made by playing (with a smirk on his face IMO). Check it out. Wish it were longer. http://youtube.com/watch?v=E-BPMVnzFU0&sea...harlie%20parker This is actually very well-known, at least the performance of Hot House that follows. It features besides Diz and Bird Dick Hyman, piano; Joe Harris, drums, and I forget the bass player, sorry. The idiot Bird is staring down is one Earl Wilson, a Broadway columnist/show-biz rat of the day. Sort of a low-rent Walter Winchell. He was the host of the show, which was called Omnibus. It's pretty funny how Bird saw right through his moronic blather and addressed it perfectly by saying 'music speaks louder than words'. I've quoted that many times since seeing this years ago). Chan Parker, in a documentary about Bird, said of this clip that you could see how pissed her husband was at not only Earl's stupidity but his racism. She went on to say 'If looks could kill...' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Btw, I've seen this over and over on YouTube- people chopping up videos and presenting bits and pieces of the complete originals. I'm not sure why this happens so much, but if you search their site, you can often find a more complete version (or in some cases, the missing portion). In this case I simply searched for "Charlie Parker", and found the above video on the first page of links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Btw, I've seen this over and over on YouTube- people chopping up videos and presenting bits and pieces of the complete originals. I'm not sure why this happens so much, but if you search their site, you can often find a more complete version (or in some cases, the missing portion). In this case I simply searched for "Charlie Parker", and found the above video on the first page of links. A complete version with Feather and Wilson beforehand and the performance by Bird and Diz (BTW, it's Charlie Smith on drums, not Joe Harris) is on the VHS and DVD of "Celebrating Bird: The Life of Charlie Parker", a nice addition to any visual library of jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Right- it's been available for many years. So why chop it up when uploading it to YouTube? I haven't done any uploading myself... maybe I'm missing something. Edited May 24, 2006 by Jim R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Right- it's been available for many years. So why chop it up when uploading it to YouTube? I haven't done any uploading myself... maybe I'm missing something. It's my understanding that upload times to YouTube (or any data of the size of these clips) -- even with highspeed access -- can take an hour or more (even, sometimes, much more - or so I've heard). Not saying that's the motivation or all the editing of clips, but it could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 (BTW, it's Charlie Smith on drums, not Joe Harris) Are you sure? I'm not saying you're wrong but I was always told that was Joe Harris. Where did you learn that? Anyway if I'm wrong about this I've been wrong for years. Wouldn't be the first or last time, I guess. Who's playing bass? I'm clueless, though I can see his face and how much fun he was having in my head right now. That's a hell of a clip whoever's on it. Bird and Diz 7 or so years after the 'revolution' getting some props finally and playing their asses off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) Charlie Smith's solo on "Hot House" (with Charlie Parker) The great drummer Charlie Smith is unknown to most musicians. He appears on the only televised performance of Charlie Parker’s, along with Sandy Block (bass), Dick Hyman (piano) and Dizzy Gillespie (trumpet), playing "Hot House" during the "Down Beat" award ceremonies in 1952. Charlie Smith was 25 years old at that time. His playing is brilliant. The three solos he plays are traded fours with Gillespie and Parker. The form of "Hot House", a tune based on "What is this thing called love", is AABA. Smith plays the first four bars of the traded fours. The last A is used to play the melody to end the tune. Please note how he uses the butt end of the stick to play explosive accents on the hi-hats. It is important to notice that Smith was left-handed and that he used a small set, which consisted only of bass drum, snare, hi-hat and one cymbal. The solo is very dynamic. I suggest, as with all transcriptions, to check it against the original work which can be found on the video "Celebrating Bird" and on some other Charlie Parker documentaries Edited May 25, 2006 by marcello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 (BTW, it's Charlie Smith on drums, not Joe Harris) Are you sure? I'm not saying you're wrong but I was always told that was Joe Harris. Where did you learn that? Anyway if I'm wrong about this I've been wrong for years. Wouldn't be the first or last time, I guess. Who's playing bass? I'm clueless, though I can see his face and how much fun he was having in my head right now. It's Charlie Smith on drums, Sandy Block on bass, according to the Koster-Bakker Charlie Parker discography. If I may, I'd like to address the issue of Earl Wilson vs. Bird. I saw this clip for the first time back when it first came to light sometime in the late 1970's. While Wilson may come across as a little crass, I think Chan may have exaggerated her interpretation of Bird's reaction to Wilson. I've looked at this clip dozens of times, before and after hearing her comments, and I just don't see the contempt in Bird's eyes that others claim to see. Wilson's phrase "you boys" may cause people to cringe today, but I think that in the context of the times, I really doubt that there was any intended racial slur implied by Wilson. It was commonplace back then to refer to any group of males regardless of color as "boys", as in "boys in the band". The phrase was more akin to "you guys" or "you fellows", and would have been appropriate even if they were white. Parker's response about letting the music speak for itself is dignified, but I just don't see it as contemptible or hateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 If I may, I'd like to address the issue of Earl Wilson vs. Bird. I saw this clip for the first time back when it first came to light sometime in the late 1970's. While Wilson may come across as a little crass, I think Chan may have exaggerated her interpretation of Bird's reaction to Wilson. I've looked at this clip dozens of times, before and after hearing her comments, and I just don't see the contempt in Bird's eyes that others claim to see. Wilson's phrase "you boys" may cause people to cringe today, but I think that in the context of the times, I really doubt that there was any intended racial slur implied by Wilson. It was commonplace back then to refer to any group of males regardless of color as "boys", as in "boys in the band". The phrase was more akin to "you guys" or "you fellows", and would have been appropriate even if they were white. Parker's response about letting the music speak for itself is dignified, but I just don't see it as contemptible or hateful. Sorry. With all due respect to your feelings and dissenting opinion I'm not buying that. The man's racism and smugness are running amok in that clip. I've seen it perhaps as many times as you and I saw an arrogant little Winchell wanna-be who was outclassed and knew it. So he had to get into the act and in so doing showed the aforementioned plus what a clueless moron he was. Not that he was alone. A long tradition sadly ensued IMO, from Mike Douglas (a nice guy, seemingly, at least) to Merv and beyond. I don't mean to attack 50s-60s TV emcees ad hominem, but rather to point out that many of these people had aspirations at music themselves but often not much talent. When some of these guys had real artists, musical or otherwise, on the shows they would almost to a man either not know shit about them or (in Griffin's case especially) would feel terribly threatened by them. Bob Brookmeyer was in the band and told the story on his website about what a talentless and angry empty suit Griffin was. Also it was rare to see jazz artists on TV then, due again to stupidity, bean counting, and no doubt racism. Remember Roland Kirk disrupting his show? It was for a reason. Merv's and other talk shows used watered-down versions of jazz (or actual charts and good ones) on breaks but would never give a black musician the time of day re exposure. Griffin, to his credit, at least had Bill Evans and Monty Alexander on. But Rahsaan was spot on, IMO. On the other hand, black jazz musicians did have friends in 50s-60s white TV. Bishop Norman O' Connor, Ralph J. Gleason, Robert Herridge, and especially Art Ford come to mind. To get back to Bird, he really nailed what was happening and handled it with dignity and great style with that 'music speaks louder than words' line. One of the all-time great subtle putdowns. And if looks could kill Earl Wilson woulda needed a priest that evening. And it sailed right over old Earl's head, dumb show-biz rat that he was. Thanks for the personnel fill-in, BTW. Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 I agree 100% with what Stereojack said. It's an intuitive reaction, based solely on what the video shows, so I'm not claiming to know. I don't have any knowledge of that host or his history, and although I think I've heard that quote from Chan before, it just doesn't really ring true for me. Maybe Chan was actually more pissed than Bird? Wouldn't surprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 There's two sides to every coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Who's playing bass? I'm clueless, though I can see his face and how much fun he was having in my head right now. Jack Lesberg is the bass player enjoying all this. Dick Hyman was on piano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 It's Charlie Smith on drums, Sandy Block on bass, according to the Koster-Bakker Charlie Parker discography. Jack Lesberg is the bass player enjoying all this. Dick Hyman was on piano. It´s Sandy Block on bass, according to the MilesAhead Charlie Parker Discography. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 It's Charlie Smith on drums, Sandy Block on bass, according to the Koster-Bakker Charlie Parker discography. Jack Lesberg is the bass player enjoying all this. Dick Hyman was on piano. It´s Sandy Block on bass, according to the MilesAhead Charlie Parker Discography. When in the Ornithology world, things get to discographical matters I tend to stick to the Gospel according to Robert/Leonard/Norman (Bregman/Bukowski/Saks, that is!). In their invaluable Charlie Parker Discography, they say it's Jack Lesberg on bass. I'ld hate to be told this Gospel is inaccurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Who's playing bass? I'm clueless, though I can see his face and how much fun he was having in my head right now. Jack Lesberg is the bass player enjoying all this. Dick Hyman was on piano. Right. I remember now it was Dick Hyman. I think I've even heard him be interviewed about same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Sorry. With all due respect to your feelings and dissenting opinion I'm not buying that. No need to. You have your opinion, I have mine. I base my opinion solely on what I see on the screen, as I would hope that you do. Wilson was a newspaper columnist, not a TV host, so to place him as representative of the TV establishment is inaccurate. In 1951 there was hardly any TV establishment to speak of, anyway. The industry was in its infancy. I don't deny that jazz musicians were denied access to TV for decades, but I think it was more for commercial reasons than for any racism, intentional or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) Sorry. With all due respect to your feelings and dissenting opinion I'm not buying that. No need to. You have your opinion, I have mine. I base my opinion solely on what I see on the screen, as I would hope that you do. Wilson was a newspaper columnist, not a TV host, so to place him as representative of the TV establishment is inaccurate. In 1951 there was hardly any TV establishment to speak of, anyway. The industry was in its infancy. I don't deny that jazz musicians were denied access to TV for decades, but I think it was more for commercial reasons than for any racism, intentional or not. He was a TV host beside his column, just as Ed Sullivan was. To say that racism in America, especially on the white owned and controlled medium of TV, and double-especially back then played no role in programming or shutting people out of the medium strikes me as nothing less than incredible, frankly. Can you not see what is obvious to me, namely that commercialism, racism and control by the few of TV---early or late---are all heads on the same monster? For but one of countless examples, Nat Cole, by the time he was ready for TV was a middle-of-the-road entertainment sensation (and a great performer at or away from the piano). But his above-average 15 minute show 'went quietly into that good night' after a short while. Reason: He couldn't get a sponsor. One lipstick company tapped said "but Negroes don't use lipstick, do they?". Cole's comment, according to his wife, was "Madison Avenue is afraid of the dark". BTW Cole's failed TV gambit was roughly contemporaneous (perhaps a few years later) with the Parker-Wilson imbroglio. You gotta be kidding me, man. Or else we're living in different countries that one of us mistakenly thinks is America... Will some black people please come on this thread and straighten these nice and well-meaning but, sorry-to-say clueless (on this issue) people out? I'm white and Jewish and even I know this stuff. Someone that has to go through this shit daily in 2006 America could speak far better than I. Maybe someone of color who actually has worked in TV? Edited May 25, 2006 by fasstrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Charlie Smith's solo on "Hot House" (with Charlie Parker) The great drummer Charlie Smith is unknown to most musicians. He appears on the only televised performance of Charlie Parker’s, along with Sandy Block (bass), Dick Hyman (piano) and Dizzy Gillespie (trumpet), playing "Hot House" during the "Down Beat" award ceremonies in 1952. Charlie Smith was 25 years old at that time. His playing is brilliant. The three solos he plays are traded fours with Gillespie and Parker. The form of "Hot House", a tune based on "What is this thing called love", is AABA. Smith plays the first four bars of the traded fours. The last A is used to play the melody to end the tune. Please note how he uses the butt end of the stick to play explosive accents on the hi-hats. It is important to notice that Smith was left-handed and that he used a small set, which consisted only of bass drum, snare, hi-hat and one cymbal. The solo is very dynamic. I suggest, as with all transcriptions, to check it against the original work which can be found on the video "Celebrating Bird" and on some other Charlie Parker documentaries Wow. Thanks for that info from the bottom to the top. This is what the Web should be about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) well, I'm not an African American, though I was a black studies major in college - and if I'd stayed in school, by now I'd probably be black - all seriousness aside, it is a mistake to read current-day attitudes/realities/perceptions to a show that's over 50 years old, and Jack is certainly right (and Chan, with all due respect, is not always a great source in this respect; more than one of her observations on these days has turned out to be inaccurate) - Wilson is trying to be a hep-cat, from what I can determine, and any draft on stage there is probably more related to Bird and Diz's sense of what a square he was - Edited May 25, 2006 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Ahhh, chaddup, all of yiz. And me, too. Like Mammy Yokum, 'I has spoken'. I really think blacks on this forum should comment and we should listen and not talk anymore. I'll start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 well, I did black before it was chic to do black - but when I did black, you could understand the words - (sorry - couldn't resist a quote from the Sunshine Boys, lines by the old Jewish vaudevillian as he gets defensive about minstrelsy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 also, gotta add - Charlie Smith is ok, but I would not describe his playing as "brilliant" - if anything, he's a bit incompatible with the boys - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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