Worst liner notes you've ever read?

[Jazzmoose]

I'd hate to run into Stanley; he'd probably get mad and take a swing...

[Christiern]

I usually run into people who are running away from Stanley.

[sheldonm]

I usually run into people who are running away from Stanley.

It was kind of like a train wreck, I couldn't take my eyes off of him......then I had nightmares!

m~

[sheldonm]

Chris,

Sorry I didn't get the chance to meet you in person. We stayed two blocks South of Central Park (57th between Browdway and 8th; I think we were in your vacinity.

m~

maybe next time!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

glad that you mentioned Green - he would REALLY be my nominee for worst notes - pseudo-erudite, elliptical in the worst possible way, generally FOS -

I read many of his liner notes on the 1970s Pablo records and would always wonder afterwards about what it was that I had read. There were a lot of words, but it was like cotton candy for the mind.

A big "ME TOO" on this. A friend of mine always defends Green's notes on the grounds that he's a musician and therefore thinks in those terms. Huh!

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

No shortage of candidates from LeRoi Jones/Amiri Baraka. His liner notes to "Live at Birdland" are pretty annoying.

I really love his sleeve notes. Particularly the ones in which he reminisces about the 40s in Newark. I'll have to look out the Jaws notes; I can't remember that.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I can't remember which album it was, but "Leroi Jones" wrote the notes to one of Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis' Prestige albums, wherein he spends the entire time talking about how boring the songs on the album are...but that Lockjaw manages to salvage them to some degree.

They came across as insulting and if I was Lockjaw, I would have found him and wrapped a mic stand around his head.

Just found those notes - they're on "Bacalao", which I only got a few weeks ago and hadn't got around to reading the notes.

I don't think that it's insulting. Time and again one reads notes in which the musicians are praised for breathing new life into warhorses. That's all Amiri did in this case. It's perfectly legit comment, in my view.

MG

[Big Al]

A friend of mine always defends Green's notes on the grounds that he's a musician and therefore thinks in those terms. Huh!

MG

Alright, as long as we're on that subject, something I've always wondered: is this Benny Green who wrote those liners the same Benny Green the piano player who put out an album called "These Are Soulful Days?" Or are there three different Benny Greens: one the trombone player, one the liner note writer, and one the piano player?

[Shawn]

I can't remember which album it was, but "Leroi Jones" wrote the notes to one of Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis' Prestige albums, wherein he spends the entire time talking about how boring the songs on the album are...but that Lockjaw manages to salvage them to some degree.

They came across as insulting and if I was Lockjaw, I would have found him and wrapped a mic stand around his head.

Just found those notes - they're on "Bacalao", which I only got a few weeks ago and hadn't got around to reading the notes.

I don't think that it's insulting. Time and again one reads notes in which the musicians are praised for breathing new life into warhorses. That's all Amiri did in this case. It's perfectly legit comment, in my view.

MG

I haven't read them in awhile, I'm sure you're probably right...I just remember being really turned off by them at the time.

[kh1958]

A friend of mine always defends Green's notes on the grounds that he's a musician and therefore thinks in those terms. Huh!

MG

Alright, as long as we're on that subject, something I've always wondered: is this Benny Green who wrote those liners the same Benny Green the piano player who put out an album called "These Are Soulful Days?" Or are there three different Benny Greens: one the trombone player, one the liner note writer, and one the piano player?

These are three different Benny Greens.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

A friend of mine always defends Green's notes on the grounds that he's a musician and therefore thinks in those terms. Huh!

MG

Alright, as long as we're on that subject, something I've always wondered: is this Benny Green who wrote those liners the same Benny Green the piano player who put out an album called "These Are Soulful Days?" Or are there three different Benny Greens: one the trombone player, one the liner note writer, and one the piano player?

These are three different Benny Greens.

The Benny Green who wrote sleeve notes was a British jazz trombonist. He wasn't Bennie Green, the American jazz trombonist. Nor was he Benny Green, the American jazz pianist.

MG

[Brownian Motion]

I find the liner notes on the Jazz Classics series irritating. The first sentence of each usually ends with an exclamation !, and things just slide downhill from there!

I suppose the producers of the series should be thanked for making so much good music available once again, and I understand they were working with a small budget, but without historical context and soloist identification much will be lost to the novice listener.

[sidewinder]

A friend of mine always defends Green's notes on the grounds that he's a musician and therefore thinks in those terms. Huh!

MG

Alright, as long as we're on that subject, something I've always wondered: is this Benny Green who wrote those liners the same Benny Green the piano player who put out an album called "These Are Soulful Days?" Or are there three different Benny Greens: one the trombone player, one the liner note writer, and one the piano player?

These are three different Benny Greens.

The Benny Green who wrote sleeve notes was a British jazz trombonist. He wasn't Bennie Green, the American jazz trombonist. Nor was he Benny Green, the American jazz pianist.

MG

Wasn't he (Benny Green) the British tenorist/baritone sax player (ex Ronnie Scott Orchestra) who also wrote quite a bit for newspaper columns? Remember seeing him quite a bit on the TV way back on music shows and he also did an MOR-ish Sunday radio show which had a bit of jazz thrown in. Benny certainly knew his stuff, for sure.

[JSngry]

I've always enjoyed Green's notes. Kinda goofy at times, sure, but never uniformed, and not without insight/empathy to the jazz-making process.

[mailman]

On Lightnin' Hopkins Smokes Like Lightning Prestige Bluesville 1070 A blues historian named Mack McCormick informs us that Lightnin' Hopkins is essentially a useless human being with the sole exception of his ability to entertain. Forced one of his band members to arrange his mothers funeral etc. When I first bought this back in the middle sixties I was stunned. This thread got me to take it of the shelf and reread it and it's as sickening now as it was then. The guy was getting paid to at least help sell the record and promote the artist. Even if it's all true it was hardly the place. Lightnin' (who I've always adored) just couldn't get any respect.

[AllenLowe]

1) well, it may not be nice, but if Mack says it I would believe it - he's an interesting and quirky guy and one of the most knowledgeable American music historian/researchers. He has earned his cynicism.

as an aside, he once told me he had an acetate somewhere in his house of early Peck Kelley - but I have not heard from him since - too bad -

2) there are actually 4 Benny Greens - the fourth is a shoe salesman in Miami -

Edited May 23, 2006 by AllenLowe

[Christiern]

Mack McCormick was deeply involved in blues and folk music during a time when the South was being scoured for "legends." If memory serves me right, he was associated with the Arhoolie label and I believe he also produced recordings. I know that he knew Lightning Hopkins quite well, at least their names were constantly linked back in the 1960s. Anyway, Mack knew his stuff and, unlike Charters, I don't think he fabricated bios and history, but I may be wrong.

[Chuck Nessa]

The guy was getting paid to at least help sell the record and promote the artist. Even if it's all true it was hardly the place. Lightnin' (who I've always adored) just couldn't get any respect.

This might be an extreme example but I've never engaged a writer to "sell the record and promote the artist". I ask folks I think have some special knowledge of the artist/project and have never edited content.

Mack was a serious guy and having his "reflections" on the scene is worth more than any slight to Mr. Hopkins.

Lightnin' had his money for the date and didn't give a shit anyway. Nothing wrong with that either.

[mailman]

The guy was getting paid to at least help sell the record and promote the artist. Even if it's all true it was hardly the place. Lightnin' (who I've always adored) just couldn't get any respect.

This might be an extreme example but I've never engaged a writer to "sell the record and promote the artist". I ask folks I think have some special knowledge of the artist/project and have never edited content.

Mack was a serious guy and having his "reflections" on the scene is worth more than any slight to Mr. Hopkins.

Lightnin' had his money for the date and didn't give a shit anyway. Nothing wrong with that either.

Did you ever release a recording with notes on the back cover saying that the record was lousy? Of course the notes are intended to help sell the record. Just like the front photo and cover design and label logo. The problem to me is that McCormack had no idea that what he wrote was in the wrong place at the wrong time. In a biography or a magazine article. No problem. But not on the artists piece of work. Pablo Piccasso was by many accounts a not so nice guy. Should we but a note on his paintings asserting this. I don't doubt that Mr. McCormack knows his stuff. What he wrote is probably true. Just seemed like a strange place to write it. This is the only recording I've ever purchased with notes that assert that the artist is a nogoodnick. And I think that an artist is entitled to more than his money. Surely Mr. Hopkins is entitled to some dignity, even if some record label owners don't seem to think so.

Edited May 24, 2006 by mailman

[Christiern]

mailman: "Of course the notes are intended to help sell the record."

That's an assumption. Were it really the case, I don't think the same record companies would be issuing CDs whose liner notes cannot be seen until the purchase has been made.

[Chuck Nessa]

Did you ever release a recording with notes on the back cover saying that the record was lousy? Of course the notes are intended to help sell the record. Just like the front photo and cover design and label logo.

I never thought the notes were read until the record was in someone's home. Do you read notes before purchase? For that matter, do you look at the friggin' label before you get it home?

[mailman]

mailman: "Of course the notes are intended to help sell the record."

That's an assumption. Were it really the case, I don't think the same record companies would be issuing CDs whose liner notes cannot be seen until the purchase has been made.

Well obviously notes on the inside are not intended to sell the record. Forty years ago or so I used to by rock and folk lps. Sometimes I'd see a record in the store by an artist, or group I'd never heard of with no notes no listing of the musicians no nothing on the cover. The record company wasn't doing anything to help me know what the hell was inside the pretty package. So I would leave the pretty package on the shelf. When I began buying jazz records I would spend hours in record stores reading liner notes, getting an education on the musicians and styles. Those notes often helped me decide what to buy-they helped sell the record. When CDs came in the record store thing went down the drain. Even the notes on the inside are often in such small print that they become useless. This developement certainly made it more difficult for me to take a chance on an artist I might not be familiar with. Nowadays we get treated to record companies crying that the 'procuct' isn't selling and they don't have a clue why. Maybe they just don't know what sells it.

[mailman]

Did you ever release a recording with notes on the back cover saying that the record was lousy? Of course the notes are intended to help sell the record. Just like the front photo and cover design and label logo.

I never thought the notes were read until the record was in someone's home. Do you read notes before purchase? For that matter, do you look at the friggin' label before you get it home?

Yes many people would read the notes in the store. Can't believe I'm telling you something you don't know.

[John Tapscott]

This might be an extreme example but I've never engaged a writer to "sell the record and promote the artist". I ask folks I think have some special knowledge of the artist/project and have never edited content.

This is exactly how it should be and even more so in this day and age when you don't read the notes until you open the CD (presumably after you've purchased it). Though I don't buy jazz magazines much anymore I used to subscribe to Coda. Coda sometimes published reviews critical of recordings on its own Sackville label (and I understand Cadence did the same with recordings on its labels). They really had a policy of not editing their writers' work.

[mailman]

This might be an extreme example but I've never engaged a writer to "sell the record and promote the artist". I ask folks I think have some special knowledge of the artist/project and have never edited content.

This is exactly how it should be and even more so in this day and age when you don't read the notes until you open the CD (presumably after you've purchased it). Though I don't buy jazz magazines much anymore I used to subscribe to Coda. Coda sometimes published reviews critical of recordings on its own Sackville label (and I understand Cadence did the same with recordings on its labels). They really had a policy of not editing their writers' work.

preumeably they didn't put the review on the cover of the record. I've never seen a record with notes that say the record is terrible and noone should buy it. Notes are generally at least synpathetic to the artist and the artists goals and achievments. I don't own a record company (not even in my dreams) but if I did I'd try to enclose the music in an attractive package that gave the consumer some idea of what I was selling. I am SELLING it after all. It is a product that is for SALE. If I want someone to buy it I might at least try to give some idea why they should buy my product and not someone elses. If I hired someone to write liner notes-inside or outside notes-I would presume that they would be respectful toward the artist that I thought highly enough of to record. I would hope that if they were going to trash the artist they would tell me and allow me to hire someone else for the job. On the recording in question, McCormack gives us an in depth portrait of Hopkins as a terrible human being. To my mind he was just showing off. I just thought that Lightnin' Hopkins deserved better from his record company. Of course if he had had some say in what the package looked like.......But that would give the artist some control over his work and we can't have that now can we.