Which Coltrane are you enjoying right now?

[Noj]

Complete 1961 Village Vanguard Recordings Disc 1

[Hot Ptah]

I played "Mr. Knight" in the car on the way to work.

That Atlantic studio stuff is really good. The Impulse years are justifiably famous, but the Atlantic recordings are great too.

[WorldB3]

Out Of This World off of Coltrane on the Impulse label.

The whole record is phenomenal, not that any of his records gets over looked but it seems like this one doesn't come up that often in his greatest recordings discussions.

[Shrdlu]

Been spinning "Not Yet", from June 62 quite a lot. Recorded at the sessions that produced the LP "Coltrane", this track was not released until the "Deluxe" 2 CD set of "Coltrane" came out a few years ago. "Coltrane" is a superb album, and I think they selected the right tracks for it, but it's a shame that "Not Yet" had to wait so long to be heard.

Give it a spin and see what you think.

If ever there was a single selection that encapsulated the work of the quartet with McCoy, Jimmy and Elvin, this is it! It's all there: the hammering fourth chords and octaves in the treble by McCoy, the strong walking bass of Jimmy, and Elvin's ride cymbal with triplets on the snare, plus a strong tenor solo. A very tasty track, it swings like crazy. Although I also like Trane's later work, I prefer it when his group swings - gotta agree with McCoy and Elvin there.

Two other less well-known tracks from that period that I love are the quartet's versions of "Big Nick" and "Vilia". These were issued in the LP era, but only on the rather obscure "Definitive Jazz Scene" anthologies, and so they were missed by many Trane fans. They are also tasty examples of the quartet's work. "Vilia" is the only track that has been released from the session at which it was recorded; it cooks so much that I'd love to hear the rest of the music recorded that day. (A different version of "Big Nick" appears on the album with Duke Ellington.)

[Shrdlu]

Also got the first of the recent 5 CD LP facsimile Impulse box sets. The sound is excellent on these. The "Coltrane" album came over really well on the headphones.

So did the first Village Vanguard album, which is probably my favorite Trane. A neighbor brought the LP around in 1963, and it just blew me away, even though to this day I don't really like "Chasin' the Trane". I'd never heard any of the 5 musicians before (possibly Trane on "Kind of Blue", but I'm not sure). The combination of soprano and bass clarinet was, at the time, very unusual, and there was this pianist playing these strange new chord voicings, plus a very original new drummer. It took me awhile, doodling on the piano, to figure out what McCoy was doing - voicings in fourths.* "Spiritual" is a masterpiece, with its seesawing alternating chords of Cm and G7 in 3/4. Elvin makes it swing like crazy. I also love "Softly, As In A Morning Sunrise". What a cooker! I wish they had recorded more standards like that at the gig - I find some of the material, like "India", rather tedious, and I'm really tired of "Impressions" after hearing and playing it myself so many times.

(The sixties were an odd time for Trane fans who did not get to hear him live, because you would get the above album, then "Bags and Trane", then "Ascension", then a Prestige date from 1958, all fired at you, with very different styles.)

________________________________________________

* For the newcomer to music, here's an example of McCoy Tyner's trademark fourth chord voicings. Starting with the G below middle C, play G, C, F, A. This has an ambiguous sound, and can be played with more than one root note in the bass. The intervals from G to C, and from C to F are known as fourths. The basic major and minor chords, such as C, E, G, are in thirds, not fourths, and sound a lot plainer.

[medjuck]

Been listening to Ole recently. Love the 2 bases.

[Chuck Nessa]

  WorldB3 said:

Out Of This World off of Coltrane on the Impulse label.

The whole record is phenomenal, not that any of his records gets over looked but it seems like this one doesn't come up that often in his greatest recordings discussions.

I know Out of This World was important to Roscoe Mitchell in his early years. He mentioned this a couple of times.

[AndrewHill]

  medjuck said:

Been listening to Ole recently. Love the 2 bases.

Along with Coltrane's Sound, my other favorite Atlantic side.

  Chuck Nessa said:

  WorldB3 said:

Out Of This World off of Coltrane on the Impulse label.

The whole record is phenomenal, not that any of his records gets over looked but it seems like this one doesn't come up that often in his greatest recordings discussions.

I know Out of This World was important to Roscoe Mitchell in his early years. He mentioned this a couple of times.

Never even heard of this record. What's the story?

[Shrdlu]

You have not heard the album simply called "Coltrane", Impulse AS 21? It's a masterpice! Get it asap. It was derived from these sessions:

John Coltrane Quartet

John Coltrane (ss, ts) McCoy Tyner (p) Jimmy Garrison (b) Elvin Jones (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, April 11, 1962

10873 Soul Eyes unissued

10874 The Inch Worm Impulse AS 21

10875 Big Nick Impulse 314 589 567-2

June 19, 1962

10979 Not Yet unissued

10980 Out Of This World Impulse AS 21

10981 Soul Eyes Impulse AS 21

10982 Excerpt unissued

June 20, 1962

10983 Not Yet Impulse 314 589 567-2

10984 Miles' Mode (The Red Planet) Impulse AS 21

10985 Two, Three, Four unissued

10986 Excerpt unissued

Miles' Mode Impulse 314 589 567-2

Tunji -

- -

- -

- -

Impressions -

- -

June 29, 1962

10992 Tunji Impulse AS 21

10993 Out Of This World unissued

The album Impulse 314 589 567-2 is the "Deluxe" 2 CD set that I mentioned in my earlier post.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Shrdlu

[AndrewHill]

  Shrdlu said:

You have not heard the album simply called "Coltrane", Impulse AS 21? It's a masterpice! Get it asap. It was derived from these sessions:

John Coltrane Quartet

John Coltrane (ss, ts) McCoy Tyner (p) Jimmy Garrison (b) Elvin Jones (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, April 11, 1962

10873 Soul Eyes unissued

10874 The Inch Worm Impulse AS 21

10875 Big Nick Impulse 314 589 567-2

June 19, 1962

10979 Not Yet unissued

10980 Out Of This World Impulse AS 21

10981 Soul Eyes Impulse AS 21

10982 Excerpt unissued

June 20, 1962

10983 Not Yet Impulse 314 589 567-2

10984 Miles' Mode (The Red Planet) Impulse AS 21

10985 Two, Three, Four unissued

10986 Excerpt unissued

Miles' Mode Impulse 314 589 567-2

Tunji -

- -

- -

- -

Impressions -

- -

June 29, 1962

10992 Tunji Impulse AS 21

10993 Out Of This World unissued

The album Impulse 314 589 567-2 is the "Deluxe" 2 CD set that I mentioned in my earlier post.

Oh. Ooops. Momentary lapse of reason.

[JohnS]

Last on was vinyl, the Roulette recordings, quartet, the first with Tyner and the Ray Draper Quintet. Some nice melodic trane there.

[JohnS]

Last up was

Live At The Village Vanguard Again. UK HMV vinyl

[Norm]

Right now I'm listening to Live at Birdland and loving it. My Coltrane collection is rather small considering his output. Aside from the aforementioned, I have Giant Steps, Bluetrain, A Love Supreme, Live at the Village Vanguard - The Mastertakes, Kenny Burrell and Coltrane, Coltrane and Monk at Carnegie Hall, John Coltrane's My Favorite Things: Live at Newport.

Noticeably missing, among others, is My Favorite Things (studio album), Crescent, Soultrane, Traneing In, etc.

So given that I'm not inclined to venture into his outer space (later) period just quite yet, what is the pecking order of things to get (e.g. what is most important) in your humble or not so humble opinions. Hope y'all don't mind all of these questions.

[jeffcrom]

  Norm said:

So given that I'm not inclined to venture into his outer space (later) period just quite yet, what is the pecking order of things to get (e.g. what is most important) in your humble or not so humble opinions.

Crescent is a masterpiece and seems to be a favorite of several people around here.

[papsrus]

Was listening to "One Down, One Up, Live at the Half Note" earlier today. I love the music, and the quirky way it's presented. Disc 2 isn't as strong as disc 1 though, particularly "My Favorite Things," where Coltrane seems less than inspired -- almost disinterested. He kind of wanders then abandons things altogether. Comes back strong near the end of the taping just before the radio announcer winds things up. There are much better versions.

But overall, it's an important set of music for me. Not everyone agrees that it's all that great/cohesive/listenable, however. As I said, I like the quirky presentation, once aptly described as akin to walking into the club midway through their set, then leaving before it's over to head off to another club, perhaps.

Thoughts on this one?

[BillF]

  WorldB3 said:

Out Of This World off of Coltrane on the Impulse label.

The whole record is phenomenal, not that any of his records gets over looked but it seems like this one doesn't come up that often in his greatest recordings discussions.

I'll certainly back you on that! Majestc! Definitely one of his greatest. Perhaps its un-memorable title causes it to be overlooked.

[JSngry]

  papsrus said:

Was listening to "One Down, One Up, Live at the Half Note" earlier today. I love the music, and the quirky way it's presented. Disc 2 isn't as strong as disc 1 though, particularly "My Favorite Things," where Coltrane seems less than inspired -- almost disinterested. He kind of wanders then abandons things altogether. Comes back strong near the end of the taping just before the radio announcer winds things up. There are much better versions.

But overall, it's an important set of music for me. Not everyone agrees that it's all that great/cohesive/listenable, however. As I said, I like the quirky presentation, once aptly described as akin to walking into the club midway through their set, then leaving before it's over to head off to another club, perhaps.

Thoughts on this one?

Some of the best Trane on record (based on my personal criteria, of course), and there's about that much more of equal quality waiting to be officially released.

The Quartet in '65 was stretching that thing as far as it could be stretched without it becoming something else entirely. It's rare music in every way.

[Chuck Nessa]

"something else entirely" was where it went.

Been living there for a while.

[JSngry]

[ghost of miles]

  BillF said:

  WorldB3 said:

Out Of This World off of Coltrane on the Impulse label.

The whole record is phenomenal, not that any of his records gets over looked but it seems like this one doesn't come up that often in his greatest recordings discussions.

I'll certainly back you on that! Majestc! Definitely one of his greatest. Perhaps its un-memorable title causes it to be overlooked.

I also have a soft spot for COLTRANE and have been thinking about getting the 2-CD edition. Timely for me to come across this thread right now--a ridiculously cheap, brand-new copy of FEARLESS LEADER arrived in the mail today, and I just spent the last hour listening to disc 1. Very nice set in terms of sound and notes.

  JSngry said:

Some of the best Trane on record (based on my personal criteria, of course), and there's about that much more of equal quality waiting to be officially released.

The Quartet in '65 was stretching that thing as far as it could be stretched without it becoming something else entirely. It's rare music in every way.

Jim, any word/rumor on whether or not the rest of the Half Note material will ever be "officially" released?

[Chuck Nessa]

Not Jim but don't count on it.

[Guy Berger]

  papsrus said:

Was listening to "One Down, One Up, Live at the Half Note" earlier today. I love the music, and the quirky way it's presented. Disc 2 isn't as strong as disc 1 though, particularly "My Favorite Things," where Coltrane seems less than inspired -- almost disinterested. He kind of wanders then abandons things altogether. Comes back strong near the end of the taping just before the radio announcer winds things up. There are much better versions.

But overall, it's an important set of music for me. Not everyone agrees that it's all that great/cohesive/listenable, however. As I said, I like the quirky presentation, once aptly described as akin to walking into the club midway through their set, then leaving before it's over to head off to another club, perhaps.

Thoughts on this one?

Pap - there was some pretty heavy discussion regarding this album when it was first released so I recommend checking that out.

My first thought is, I'm surprised that anyone who is at least somewhat receptive to this kind of music would suggest it's not "great" or "listenable". I mean, this is a recording that shows that even a "typical" Coltrane performance from this period was at a level that only a few musicians have reached at their best.

The second is that fans of this album need to check out the other two nights from the Half Note, particularly the one that includes the untitled original "Creation". It's easily the best performance from the Half Note - better than anything on the two officially released discs. And you can listen to it on youtube.

Guy

[JSngry]

And don't count on me, but I've heard nothing one way or the other.

[Guy Berger]

  BillF said:

  WorldB3 said:

Out Of This World off of Coltrane on the Impulse label.

The whole record is phenomenal, not that any of his records gets over looked but it seems like this one doesn't come up that often in his greatest recordings discussions.

I'll certainly back you on that! Majestc! Definitely one of his greatest. Perhaps its un-memorable title causes it to be overlooked.

I've always been of two minds on this record. "Out of This World" is without a doubt magnificent, one of the best things Coltrane ever recorded. The rest of the record just pales in comparison, and some of it ("The Inch Worm", "Big Nick") feels almost trivial. I do like "Soul Eyes" and "Tunji" quite a bit.

And since I'm already blaspheming against classic Trane, when I went back and listened to "Ole" (the track), it struck me how Hubbard, Dolphy and Tyner sound kind of lost during much of their solos. To be fair this kind of music was super-new, I'm not sure how much rehearsal time they got if at all, but... the track only REALLY takes off during the bass solos, and then Trane takes that monster soprano solo (the best he ever played? At the very least it deserves honorable mention) which pretty much makes us forget everything that happened before. And maybe unfairly I've always shrugged off the rest of the album. Am I making a poor judgment? Convince me!

In the liner notes to Ole Trane actually discusses how around this time (the album was released in 1962, I believe) he decided to cut down the length of his solos. You can hear it - this performance, and also some of the longer tunes recorded in Europe during the fall of 1961, are pretty diffuse. By the time of the 1962 fall tour, the performances tend to be shorter and Trane's playing much more concentrated. By the time you get to the 1963 concerts, the solos are getting longer again, but there's much more meat than there had been two years earlier.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Guy

[papsrus]

  Guy said:

Pap - there was some pretty heavy discussion regarding this album when it was first released so I recommend checking that out.

My first thought is, I'm surprised that anyone who is at least somewhat receptive to this kind of music would suggest it's not "great" or "listenable". I mean, this is a recording that shows that even a "typical" Coltrane performance from this period was at a level that only a few musicians have reached at their best.

The second is that fans of this album need to check out the other two nights from the Half Note, particularly the one that includes the untitled original "Creation". It's easily the best performance from the Half Note - better than anything on the two officially released discs. And you can listen to it on youtube.

Guy

Went back and looked over a couple of threads related to this release, as well as the earlier released music you reference. Thanks for pointing those out.

I agree this is incredible music, particularly disc one, as I mentioned -- which I'm listening to now. Coltrane and Jones are unbelievable on the title track. And when the quartet is pushing full throttle on Afro Blue, it's pretty amazing. Tyner is a force.

I also love the shots of the bandstand on the inside cover, with the time-card slot box off to one side and the liquor bottles sitting on a shelf right below Coltrane. What a place! I guess Tyner's jammed in the back somewhere. The tiny stage offers a sharp visual contrast to the immense music. It's almost comical to imagine this music came from that stage, really.

It must have been truly overwhelming to be there at the time.

Thanks Guy, and everyone, for the comments on this.