Jim Alfredson Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 There was a really good article about this in the New Yorker a few weeks back. It seems to me from that piece that these kids, although rich and privileged for sure (and stupid for hiring a stripper) got the raw end of a deal from a prosecutor hell-bent on political gain. There is definitely racism involved and classism, on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Even if half of what the defense attorneys claim can't be proven, there are so many problems with this prosecution, I don't think they have a snowball's chance of convicting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 There was a really good article about this in the New Yorker a few weeks back. It seems to me from that piece that these kids, although rich and privileged for sure (and stupid for hiring a stripper) got the raw end of a deal from a prosecutor hell-bent on political gain. There is definitely racism involved and classism, on both sides. I think the problem is the society in general. Sports in this country is held in such high regard that kids are treated like gods and given special treatment so that they don't think they're subject to the same rules that apply to most of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 That may be true, but these kids didn't really do anything too heinous beyond hiring a stripper for a party. Yes, they were drinking, but that's what college kids do (I did plenty when I was at MSU). This accuser hasn't even been heard of by anyone, including her family, since the DNA tests came back negative. I had the same reaction as Berigan when I first heard this story, instantly thinking, "Oh those rich jocks. What a surprise." And I condemned them in my mind before any shred of evidence was presented. And now the case just looks like an example of classism and racism to the extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 That may be true, but these kids didn't really do anything too heinous beyond hiring a stripper for a party. Yes, they were drinking, but that's what college kids do (I did plenty when I was at MSU). This accuser hasn't even been heard of by anyone, including her family, since the DNA tests came back negative. I had the same reaction as Berigan when I first heard this story, instantly thinking, "Oh those rich jocks. What a surprise." And I condemned them in my mind before any shred of evidence was presented. And now the case just looks like an example of classism and racism to the extreme. I must admit to the same initial reaction. Then last night's 60 Minutes story really made me think again. The line-up of photos that the woman was shown broke several cardinal rules of line-ups, for one thing. The behavior of the DA in this case is disturbing to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 There was a really good article about this in the New Yorker a few weeks back. It seems to me from that piece that these kids, although rich and privileged for sure (and stupid for hiring a stripper) got the raw end of a deal from a prosecutor hell-bent on political gain. There is definitely racism involved and classism, on both sides. I read the New Yorker piece too. I wanted to give the accuser a fair hearing, but her charge made no sense to me. These guys may be jocks, but they're enrolled in an elite university, are children of privilege, and are very unlikely to have been so besotted with drink, and so overcome with the charms of the accuser that they were willing to squander their lives by engaging in a gang-rape they had no conceivable chance of getting away with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 There was a really good article about this in the New Yorker a few weeks back. It seems to me from that piece that these kids, although rich and privileged for sure (and stupid for hiring a stripper) got the raw end of a deal from a prosecutor hell-bent on political gain. There is definitely racism involved and classism, on both sides. I read the New Yorker piece too. I wanted to give the accuser a fair hearing, but her charge made no sense to me. These guys may be jocks, but they're enrolled in an elite university, are children of privilege, and are very unlikely to have been so besotted with drink, and so overcome with the charms of the accuser that they were willing to squander their lives by engaging in a gang-rape they had no conceivable chance of getting away with. Is this serious? Is my sarcasm meter broken again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 The really unfortunate thing - provided that the woman wasn't actually raped, of course, and it's increasingly looking like she wasn't - is that these kids' lives and reputations have been ruined. Where are the shield laws when it comes to that? And to prosecutorial misconduct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 (edited) As much as I've bashed jocks over the years, the three Duke University lacrosse students should have never been presented in a team photo for the supposed rape victim. Any jury that convicts these three is voting on emotion instead of the law; the district attorney deserves to be removed from office for going ahead with this very shaky case. If traditional photo arrays with men (none in uniform) from a variety of backgrounds had been utilized, the still-shaky case probably would not have brought so many brickbats bup the D.A.'s office. Edited October 17, 2006 by Ken Dryden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 The Evans kid's mom is an old friend of my wife.................they got a raw deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted April 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Not only are the charges dropped against them, the state A.G. said they are innocent!!!! http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...;show_article=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 I'd say it certainly became clear a while back that there was insufficient evidence to proceed with a case against any of the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Not only are the charges dropped against them, the state A.G. said they are innocent!!!! http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...;show_article=1 Yes, it became clear early-on that these young men probably did not rape their accuser. At least they were never convicted of a crime and never had to serve unjustified prison time, unlike the state worker in Wisconsin whose guilty verdict was overturned by a 3 judge panel last Friday. She was railroaded last fall during the Wisconsin gubernatorial race by an overzealous US Attorney, who was proudly doing the White House's bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted April 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Not only are the charges dropped against them, the state A.G. said they are innocent!!!! http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...;show_article=1 Yes, it became clear early-on that these young men probably did not rape their accuser. At least they were never convicted of a crime and never had to serve unjustified prison time, unlike the state worker in Wisconsin whose guilty verdict was overturned by a 3 judge panel last Friday. She was railroaded last fall during the Wisconsin gubernatorial race by an overzealous US Attorney, who was proudly doing the White House's bidding. Man, it's amazing how you guys can stick your hatred of Bush into just about every post! Isn't Nifong a Democrat??? Didn't he use this case to win re-election???? I didn't feel the need to mention that before, I was trying to just keep this on the case itself.....since this will no doubt push this into the political forum, how about some names, in the story you mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Not only are the charges dropped against them, the state A.G. said they are innocent!!!! http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...;show_article=1 Yes, it became clear early-on that these young men probably did not rape their accuser. At least they were never convicted of a crime and never had to serve unjustified prison time, unlike the state worker in Wisconsin whose guilty verdict was overturned by a 3 judge panel last Friday. She was railroaded last fall during the Wisconsin gubernatorial race by an overzealous US Attorney, who was proudly doing the White House's bidding. Man, it's amazing how you guys can stick your hatred of Bush into just about every post! Isn't Nifong a Democrat??? Didn't he use this case to win re-election???? I didn't feel the need to mention that before, I was trying to just keep this on the case itself.....since this will no doubt push this into the political forum, how about some names, in the story you mentioned? See http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=128161 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Given the furor over the Imus incident, I wonder if we'll see Sharpton or Jackson apologizing to the three lacrosse players they accused, tried, and all but executed in the press? Nah, didn't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) Given the furor over the Imus incident, I wonder if we'll see Sharpton or Jackson apologizing to the three lacrosse players they accused, tried, and all but executed in the press? Nah, didn't think so. Yes, because we all know that a rush to judgment based on incomplete information is somehow the same kind of thing as a pointless and completely unprovoked racial slur. "Wah wah wah, Don Imus said some mean things about black people. But Jesse Jackson said some mean things about white people! I can't tell the difference." Edited April 12, 2007 by Big Wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Given the furor over the Imus incident, I wonder if we'll see Sharpton or Jackson apologizing to the three lacrosse players they accused, tried, and all but executed in the press? Nah, didn't think so. Yes, because we all know that a rush to judgment based on incomplete information is somehow the same kind of thing as a pointless and completely unprovoked racial slur. "Wah wah wah, Don Imus said some mean things about black people. But Jesse Jackson said some mean things about white people! I can't tell the difference." I could argue that calling it "incomplete information" is really downplaying the crime, but I won't. As for your comment equating the two, no I don't think they're in the same league. I think the "rush to judgement" was much worse and far more destructive to all the individuals involved. Not saying that Imus' slur wasn't terribly wrong , but I don't equate a few hurt feelings with the near-total destruction of three men's lives. (Would you still dismiss the importance of the "rush to judgement" if the players went to trial and were found guilty - in a reverse-O.J. - due to the racial component of the case?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 First of all, could anyone point me to something Jesse Jackson said that was so irresponsible in the case? All I've been able to turn up of substance are a fairly circumspect op-ed and the widespread reports of the Rainbow Coalition offering to pay the "victim's" tuition. As for the tuition payment, I don't see what the big deal is - Jackson didn't say "we're doing this because guilty whitey deserves it," he said that they wanted to make sure that the woman would never again have to "stoop so low" as exotic dancing to have to put herself through college. Well, WTF is wrong with that? Why does it seem like every time there's an incident involving a racist white person, there's an inevitable chorus of middle-aged white males pointing to Something Irresponsible Jesse Jackson Supposedly Did Too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Clugston Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 District attorneys should not be elected. Prosecuting and upholding the law should not be an electoral popularity contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 this story is virtually lost in the imus calamity and their accusers are virtually unscathed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 this story is virtually lost in the imus calamity and their accusers are virtually unscathed. I've heard that no charges will be filed against the woman. Meanwhile, I've also heard that the "victims" (the three lacrosse players) have amassed $5 million in legal bills. (That sounds wildly excessive, I know, but what if it was "only" $100,000?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted April 14, 2007 Report Share Posted April 14, 2007 (edited) I haven't been following this pseudo-news farce, but this bit from Jon Stewart is pretty funny. Guy Edited April 14, 2007 by Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 The stripper has quite a past...in 2002, She got drunk, stole a taxi, and crashed it into a police car . I'm sorry that race is part of the picture. Let's suppose she was white. I don't think a stripper with that history should be able to ruin the reputations of college students. Well, I hate to say I told you so. I was glad to see that the State Bar Disciplinary Board specifically stated that the cause of this was Nifong's desire to get elected. In the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill/Cary metro, Durham has most of the blacks. Nifong was courting the black vote. To my knowledge all of the black spokesmen sided with the stripper. None of them said, "Wait a minute. Just because we're black doesn't mean that we want to be associated with a stripper." I think that was a big mistake. I don't think that the blacks of America will get the respect they deserve until their spokesmen differentiate between the vast majority and the low lifes among them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 The three falsely accused players accepted a settlment today. I wonder what happens with the coach the school forced to resign? Will Nifong be sued, I'd say yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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