John Patton Mosaic Select: What's in, What's Out?

[sjarrell]

Really, guys- all I wanted to know was if That Certain Feeling was worth the price of the Select.

I bought it already!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Really, guys- all I wanted to know was if That Certain Feeling was worth the price of the Select.

I bought it already!

So, tell US, was it?

We really want to know.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Stupid question from someone who bought the whole fucking Sonny Stitt Mosaic box just to get the LP with Don Patterson. OF COURSE it's worth it if you've bought it! You don't spend all that time toying with your scruples and then make a mistake of that magnitude.

MG

[sjarrell]

Really, guys- all I wanted to know was if That Certain Feeling was worth the price of the Select.

I bought it already!

So, tell US, was it?

We really want to know.

MG

As soon as it's here, I'll tell you!

[sjarrell]

Stupid question from someone who bought the whole fucking Sonny Stitt Mosaic box just to get the LP with Don Patterson. OF COURSE it's worth it if you've bought it! You don't spend all that time toying with your scruples and then make a mistake of that magnitude.

MG

There you go. You know, I have the McLean set for High Frequency and the swell booklet...

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Stupid question from someone who bought the whole fucking Sonny Stitt Mosaic box just to get the LP with Don Patterson. OF COURSE it's worth it if you've bought it! You don't spend all that time toying with your scruples and then make a mistake of that magnitude.

MG

There you go. You know, I have the McLean set for High Frequency and the swell booklet...

We've more money than sense, haven't we?

MG

[sjarrell]

Sometimes I'm both senseless and penniless. But entertained, at least.

[monkboughtlunch]

Here's my 2 cents on the Mosaic. I haven't picked it up.

That Certain Feeling is the only title that has not been issued on CD before. Ironically, this set will reduce demand for the date and probably prevent the session from getting a stand-alone CD release even longer. I would love to hear Junior Cook with Patton.

This Mosaic package is tantamount to paying $40 for a single CD for most of us. I suppose it's ok for those without any previous Patton exposure, but still it's not comprehensive and leaves out several Blue Notes. So it fails as a folio package.

If one wishes to pick this up for "That Certain Feeling" they will notice that the session is bifurcated, split between two discs in the set, thereby reducing the enjoyment factor or having the session contained on one disc.

Hopefully, the Japanese will release That Certain Feeling as a stand alone disc and correct this Mosaic failure.

[Aggie87]

Here's my 2 cents on the Mosaic. I haven't picked it up.

That Certain Feeling is the only title that has not been issued on CD before. Ironically, this set will reduce demand for the date and probably prevent the session from getting a stand-alone CD release even longer. I would love to hear Junior Cook with Patton.

This Mosaic package is tantamount to paying $40 for a single CD for most of us. I suppose it's ok for those without any previous Patton exposure, but still it's not comprehensive and leaves out several Blue Notes. So it fails as a folio package.

If one wishes to pick this up for "That Certain Feeling" they will notice that the session is bifurcated, split between two discs in the set, thereby reducing the enjoyment factor or having the session contained on one disc.

Hopefully, the Japanese will release That Certain Feeling as a stand alone disc and correct this Mosaic failure.

If someone already has all of the other material on this set, but wants "That Certain Feeling", why not pick it up and sell the other discs you already own? That would help offset the cost of the Select, and you wouldn't have duplication of any of the other material, either.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Here's my 2 cents on the Mosaic. I haven't picked it up.

That Certain Feeling is the only title that has not been issued on CD before. Ironically, this set will reduce demand for the date and probably prevent the session from getting a stand-alone CD release even longer. I would love to hear Junior Cook with Patton.

This Mosaic package is tantamount to paying $40 for a single CD for most of us. I suppose it's ok for those without any previous Patton exposure, but still it's not comprehensive and leaves out several Blue Notes. So it fails as a folio package.

If one wishes to pick this up for "That Certain Feeling" they will notice that the session is bifurcated, split between two discs in the set, thereby reducing the enjoyment factor or having the session contained on one disc.

Hopefully, the Japanese will release That Certain Feeling as a stand alone disc and correct this Mosaic failure.

If someone already has all of the other material on this set, but wants "That Certain Feeling", why not pick it up and sell the other discs you already own? That would help offset the cost of the Select, and you wouldn't have duplication of any of the other material, either.

Ho hum - I had all the records anyway, just "Understanding" and "Certain feeling" not on CD. I've still got the LPs now.

MG

[monkboughtlunch]

Here's my 2 cents on the Mosaic. I haven't picked it up.

That Certain Feeling is the only title that has not been issued on CD before. Ironically, this set will reduce demand for the date and probably prevent the session from getting a stand-alone CD release even longer. I would love to hear Junior Cook with Patton.

This Mosaic package is tantamount to paying $40 for a single CD for most of us. I suppose it's ok for those without any previous Patton exposure, but still it's not comprehensive and leaves out several Blue Notes. So it fails as a folio package.

If one wishes to pick this up for "That Certain Feeling" they will notice that the session is bifurcated, split between two discs in the set, thereby reducing the enjoyment factor or having the session contained on one disc.

Hopefully, the Japanese will release That Certain Feeling as a stand alone disc and correct this Mosaic failure.

If someone already has all of the other material on this set, but wants "That Certain Feeling", why not pick it up and sell the other discs you already own? That would help offset the cost of the Select, and you wouldn't have duplication of any of the other material, either.

I like the albums as originally produced and not combined and/or separated across multiple discs. Plus some of the Japanese TOCJ remasterings I have sound superior to the Ron McMaster issues, which are presumably used on the Mosaic. For example, the 2000 domestic of Along Came John had a top end boost. I'm assuming they reused the 2000 McMaster transfer on the Mosaic. Why should I dump the superior Japanese transfer of Along Came John just to pick up That Certain Feeling spread across two discs and an inferior remastering ACJ?

[robertoart]

I think it's also quite tongue-in-cheek.

Yes it was tongue in cheek...a bit to far if ya thought I was serious Soulstream.

And I've been told more than once in my life that sarcasm is not very smart. Ignorant and disinterested Hammond reviewing pisses me off too though.

That's as aggresive as I get.......I'm a social worker.

[robertoart]

Is there yet sjarrel.

I'm sure you are going to love 'That Certain Feeling'. I heard it for the first time this year and it is one of my favourite Hammond sessions "ever". Apart from the great soloing by everyone, the tunes are really something. Patton's melodies have a unique quality I think, and this session has got some of his best. Early AM is a real beauty. So I am sure if you listen to this once or twice you will have them floating around in your head for most of the day, and that can't be a bad thing. And Jimmy Ponder's playing on this is just amazingly good. IMHO

[Rooster_Ties]

I'm sure you are going to love 'That Certain Feeling'... ...and Jimmy Ponder's playing on this is just amazingly good. IMHO

IMHO too. Pitty Ponder didn't record more in the 60's. He's a monster, on this date - and on the extra Andrew Hill "Grass Roots" prototype date.

[robertoart]

I'm sure you are going to love 'That Certain Feeling'... ...and Jimmy Ponder's playing on this is just amazingly good. IMHO

IMHO too. Pitty Ponder didn't record more in the 60's. He's a monster, on this date - and on the extra Andrew Hill "Grass Roots" prototype date.

Yes. Absolutely.

Rooster Ties, do you know of any other Ponder dates from that era where he was able to demonstrate that side of his playing? I love hearing the Montgomery things he had happening so well, being put into a the more probing kind of context that those two sessions you mention allowed him to do.

[Noj]

Favorite tracks from this set?

Mine:

The Silver Meter

I'll Never Be Free

Along Came John

The Way I Feel

Jerry

Just 3/4

Daddy James

Understanding

I Want To Go Home

Early A.M.

[Rooster_Ties]

I'm sure you are going to love 'That Certain Feeling'... ...and Jimmy Ponder's playing on this is just amazingly good. IMHO

IMHO too. Pitty Ponder didn't record more in the 60's. He's a monster, on this date - and on the extra Andrew Hill "Grass Roots" prototype date.

Yes. Absolutely.

Rooster Ties, do you know of any other Ponder dates from that era where he was able to demonstrate that side of his playing? I love hearing the Montgomery things he had happening so well, being put into a the more probing kind of context that those two sessions you mention allowed him to do.

I wish I did know of other Ponder dates where he could really reach a bit. Alas, I don't think there are any (at least none I'm aware of).

Facinating to hear him on the Grass Roots material. The only time Andrew Hill ever worked with a guitar that I'm aware of (at least that was recorded).

[sjarrell]

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive! More eagerly the more I read. I've also got Boogaloo and Memphis to NY Spirit on the way, and I've never heard them either. With those, my BN Patton stack will be complete!

[mikelz777]

I found a bargain so I finally picked up Big John's Mosaic Select as well and await its arrival. This will be the first Patton in my collection and from the sound of it, it's a pretty good place to start. I've been listening to a little Jimmy Smith to whet my B-3 appetite.

[Rooster_Ties]

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive! More eagerly the more I read. I've also got Boogaloo and Memphis to NY Spirit on the way, and I've never heard them either. With those, my BN Patton stack will be complete!

"That Certain Feeling" - "Boogaloo" - and "Understanding" are my three favorite Patton dates, hands down.

"That Certain Feeling" - cuz of Jimmy Ponder (as previously mentioned)

and "Boogaloo" and "Understanding" cuz of Harold Alexander. ( )

[robertoart]

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive! More eagerly the more I read. I've also got Boogaloo and Memphis to NY Spirit on the way, and I've never heard them either. With those, my BN Patton stack will be complete!

A lot of good listening there. Be sure to look out for Footprints on Memphis to New York. Blood Ulmer plays one of the narliest tension-release solos ever. It would be great to hear what you think of these sessions as well.

[robertoart]

Ahh there's just gotta be one more example of Ponder stretching out like that....there's gotta be. I noticed a whole heap of sessions he did with Groove Holmes and Hank Crawford but I guess this would be in a different bag no doubt. Oh well... just have to keep on enjoying the Patton and Hill sessions.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Ahh there's just gotta be one more example of Ponder stretching out like that....there's gotta be. I noticed a whole heap of sessions he did with Groove Holmes and Hank Crawford but I guess this would be in a different bag no doubt. Oh well... just have to keep on enjoying the Patton and Hill sessions.

I think what you're looking for are some of the albums he made as a leader for Muse - now deleted of course.

"Mean streets - no bridges" (1987) and "Jump" (1988) both featured John Patton.

"To reach a dream" (1989) featured Lonnie Smith and has a FEEEEEEL like "Certain feeling".

"Soul eyes" (1991) has Benny Green on piano and Houston Person on tenor. A very wide range of material - Blues, Hard Bop, a couple of Rodgers & Harts, and a Pharoah Sanders number - only one original. I like this album very much.

"Something to Ponder" (1994) is kinda similar, without Person and with Mark Soskin on piano. More standards on this but also a nine minute version of "The creator has a master plan".

Most of his albums for Muse seem a bit better than the ones he's been making for HighNote. I think this may have been a pretty good period for Jimmy.

Another one I like from this period is

Kankawa - Harlem swing - P-vine. Recorded live in Tokyo. Kankawa is a pretty good organist. Greg Bandy on drums. Mostly standards mostly done at length. Others may think that 11-15 minutes on a standard for an organ trio is too long but I don't find myself getting bored.

MG

[robertoart]

Great info MG. I have Bumpin on Sunset on a compilation and that is off 'To Reach a Dream'. I've been meaning to try and find that one. A quick search suggests it's going to be hard to find. I am trying to find the Kankawa live one. That's around for about $45 US....Ooouch...I'II see if I can find a source for it in Japan. BTW 11-15 minutes is OK with me too. There is a clip of Jimmy Ponder playing Autumn Leaves on YouTube. There is a comprehensive discography at www.dougpayne.com that I didn't know about. So now I know the complete Jimmy Ponder recordings so far.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

There is a comprehensive discography at www.dougpayne.com that I didn't know about. So now I know the complete Jimmy Ponder recordings so far.

I hadn't noticed that. I'll have to pay that site a visit. Thanks.

MG