mikeweil Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 Is there an online discography for the original 1960-61 Candid sessions? Or one of Charles Mingus? I'd like to clear up the discographical mess with various issues mixing and sometimes doubling material from different sessions. Thanks! Quote
Fer Urbina Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 Is there an online discography for the original 1960-61 Candid sessions? Or one of Charles Mingus? I'd like to clear up the discographical mess with various issues mixing and sometimes doubling material from different sessions. Thanks! Looks like this could be helpful. F Quote
king ubu Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 For Mingus I always thought this site did well enough: http://webusers.siba.fi/~eonttone/mingus/leader.html For the Cecil Taylor material (similar mess), there's this one: http://www.efi.group.shef.ac.uk/mtaylors.html The CT online sessionography says "more details forthcoming" but has no info so far. Quote
mikeweil Posted April 5, 2006 Author Report Posted April 5, 2006 Thanks - this helps. Unfortunately he doesn't list the takes issued on "Candid Dolphy". Me dumbhead obviously sold this CD ...... If there was a session based disco for Candid, it would be best. Nothing like this? Quote
EKE BBB Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 I´m afraid this won´t help either: http://www.bsnpubs.com/cadence/candid.html Quote
Fer Urbina Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 As a last resort you can always try Alan Bates... For Further information on how to obtain detailed information about artists and recordings, please see details below: Candid Productions Ltd. 16 Castelnau, London SW13 9RU UK Tel. +44 (020) 8741 3608 Fax. +44 (020) 8563 0013 email: info@candidrecords.com Quote
king ubu Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 Thanks - this helps. Unfortunately he doesn't list the takes issued on "Candid Dolphy". Me dumbhead obviously sold this CD ...... If there was a session based disco for Candid, it would be best. Nothing like this? Going from memory that disc did not contain unreleased Mingus (just doubled up two tunes available elsewhere), but it does add to the great Booker Little album. Candid Dolphy (info taken from the www, not double-checked with my own disc): 1. Re-Incarnation of a love Bird (take 1) 2. Stormy Weather (take 1) 3. T'aint Nobody's Business If I Do (take 3) 4. Body and Soul (take 2) 5. African Lady (take 4) 6. Quiet Please (take 1) 7. Moods in Free Time (take 5) 8. Hazy Hues (take 5) On 1,2 ("Mingus Presents Mingus" session) Charles Mingus:b Eric Dolphy:as,bcl,fl Ted Curson,Lonnie Hillyer:tp Charles McPherson:as Nico Bunick:p Dannie Richmond:ds date: 1960/10/20 On 3 (Abbey Lincoln/Jazz Artist Guild session) Eric Dolphy:bcl Benny Bailey:tp Kenny Dorham:p Peck Morrison:b Jo Jones:ds Abbey Lincoln:vo date: 1960/11/01 On 4 (Charles Mingus/Jazz Artist Guild session) Eric Dolphy:as Roy Eldridge:tp Jimmy Knepper:tb Tomy Flanagan:p Charles Mingus:b Jo Jones:ds date: 1960/11/11 On 5 (Abbey Licoln/"Straight Ahead" session? ) Eric Dolphy:piccolo Booker Little:tp Julian Priester:tb Coleman Hawkins,Walter Benton:ts Mal Waldron:p Art Davis:b Max Roach:ds Roger Sanders,Robert Whitley:conga-drums Abbey Lincoln:vo On 6 (Booker Little/"Out Front" session) Booker Little:tp Eric Dolphy:as,fl Julian Priester:tb Don Friedman:p Art Davis:b Max Roach:ds,tympani date: 1961/03/17 On 7,8 (Booker Little/"Out Front" session) Booker Little:tp Eric Dolphy:as,fl Julian Priester:tb Don Friedman:p Art Davis:b Max Roach:ds,tympani date: 1961/04/04 Quote
brownie Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 Thanks - this helps. Unfortunately he doesn't list the takes issued on "Candid Dolphy". Me dumbhead obviously sold this CD ...... If there was a session based disco for Candid, it would be best. Nothing like this? Mike, that'll teach you to sell valuable music! I cherish my copy... Here goes: - Reincarnation of a love bird, take 1 - Stormy weather, take 1 - T'ain't nobody's business if I do, take 3 - Body and soul, take 2 - African lady, take 4 - Quiet, please, take 1 - Moods in free time, take 5 - Hazy hues, take 5 Quote
AllenLowe Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 I have two words for you - Stormy Weather - a life-changing performance. That's all you need to know - Quote
king ubu Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 I have two words for you - Stormy Weather - a life-changing performance. That's all you need to know - That tune was the first instance where I heard and dug Dolphy - an awesome performance! I got a cheapo disc pairing that one quartet track with some Eldridge/Flanagan and some of the large group Candid cuts. Made for a good entry into the world of Mingus - in medias res, so to say. That "Stormy Weather" is indeed to this day my favourite single Dolphy performance, I think! Quote
MartyJazz Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 I have two words for you - Stormy Weather - a life-changing performance. That's all you need to know - I have a few words for you: "All the Things You Could be by Now if You Weren't such a Didactic M*th*rF*ck*r" P.S. "Stormy Weather" is a tremendous track. Quote
mikeweil Posted April 5, 2006 Author Report Posted April 5, 2006 I have two words for you - Stormy Weather - a life-changing performance. That's all you need to know - Is that take different from the one on "Mingus" - I have that. I old the Candid Dolphy CD because it duplicated so many tracks, and I didn't need all those alternates. If one of you could add timings, I could compare. Quote
brownie Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 I have two words for you - Stormy Weather - a life-changing performance. That's all you need to know - Is that take different from the one on "Mingus" - I have that. I old the Candid Dolphy CD because it duplicated so many tracks, and I didn't need all those alternates. If one of you could add timings, I could compare. It's the same take! Clocking at 13m25s on the original Candid Mingus LP and the Candid Dolphy CD. On the Candid Dolphy CD, all takes are alternates except 'Stormy Weather' and 'Moods in Free Time'. Quote
kh1958 Posted April 5, 2006 Report Posted April 5, 2006 I have two words for you - Stormy Weather - a life-changing performance. That's all you need to know - Is that take different from the one on "Mingus" - I have that. I old the Candid Dolphy CD because it duplicated so many tracks, and I didn't need all those alternates. If one of you could add timings, I could compare. No, there is only one take of Stormy Weather. Quote
mikeweil Posted April 5, 2006 Author Report Posted April 5, 2006 Okay - a first attempt to clear this up - please help me out if I'm missing something or if anything is incorrect. (Compiled using the sources linked above.) -------------------------------------------- Nola Penthouse Studio, New York, October 20, 1960 Ted Curson - trumpet Eric Dolphy - alto sax, bass clarinet, flute Charles Mingus - bass Dannie Richmond - drums (solo on 6) 1 - Folk Forms No. 1 (13:01) 9005 2 - Original Faubus Fables (aka Faubus Of Fables) (9:03) 9005 3 - What Love? (15:19) 9005 4 - All The Things You Could Be By Now If Sigmund Freud's Wife Was Your Mother (8:33) 9005 5 - Stormy Weather (13:23) (Arlen) 9021, 9033 6 - Melody From The Drums (9:21) (Richmond) 9042 -------------------------------------------- Nola Penthouse Studio, New York, October 20, 1960 Ted Curson - trumpet Lonnie Hillyer - trumpet Eric Dolphy - alto sax, bass clarinet, flute Charles McPherson - alto sax Booker Ervin - tenor sax except on 1 Jimmy Knepper - trombone Britt Woodman - trombone on 3 Nico Bunink - piano Charles Mingus - bass Dannie Richmond - drums 1 - Reincarnation Of A Lovebird No. 1 (9:17) 9042 2 - Vasserlean (aka Weird Nightmare) (6:36) 9019, 9042 3 - MDM (19:07) 9021 -------------------------------------------- Nola Penthouse Studio, New York, November 11, 1960 Ted Curson - trumpet except on 1 Lonnie Hillyer - trumpet Eric Dolphy - alto sax, bass clarinet, flute except on 1 Charles McPherson - alto sax Booker Ervin - tenor sax Paul Bley - piano Charles Mingus - bass Dannie Richmond - drums 1 - Bugs (8:25) 9026 2 - Reincarnation Of A Lovebird (6:55) 9026 3 - Lock 'Em Up (6:41) 9021 -------------------------------------------- Nola Penthouse Studio, New York, November 11, 1960 Roy Eldridge - trumpet Jimmy Knepper - trombone on 1-4 Eric Dolphy - alto sax, bass clarinet, flute on 1-4 Tommy Flanagan - piano Charles Mingus - bass Jo Jones - drums Mysterious Blues (8:35) 9022, 9042 Body And Soul (13:45) (Green) 9026 Body And Soul (alternate) (10:45) 9042 R & R (11:48) (Eldridge/Brown) 9019 Wrap Your Troubles In Dreams (3:48) (Moll/Koehler/Barris) 9022 Wrap Your Troubles In Dreams (alternate) (3:50) 9042 Me And You (9:52) (Eldridge/Mingus/Flanagan/Jones) 9022, 9042 --------------------------------- All compositions by Charles Mingus unless otherwise noted Stereo issues Candid 9005 Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus Candid 9019 The Jazz Life Candid 9021 Mingus Candid 9022 Newport Rebels Candid 9026 Reincarnation of a Lovebird Candid 9033 Candid Dolphy Candid 9042 Mysterious Blues Quote
Head Man Posted April 6, 2006 Report Posted April 6, 2006 I've checked the recording details in my Mosaic boxset - 'The Complete Candid Recordings of Charles Mingus' & there are a few slight differences from your details: On the second set for October 20, 1960: - Booker Ervin, Jimmy Knepper & Britt Woodman are omitted from 'Reincarnation of a lovebird No 1' - Jimmy Knepper & Britt Woodman are omitted from 'Vasserlean' On the first set for November 11, 1960: - Ted Curson & Eric Dolphy are omitted for 'Bugs' On the second set for November 11, 1960: - Eric Dolphy and Jimmy Knepper are omitted from 'Me and you'. ie they are both present on tracks 1-6, not 1-4 Hope that helps! Quote
mikeweil Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Posted April 12, 2006 Yes it does - thanks! I received a copy of the latest CD issue of Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus earlier this week, but the CD sounds strangely muffled, as if the higher frequency range was cut off to reduce tape hiss. Do the earlier CD versions sound like this? Meanwhile, my missing copy of Candid Dolphy reappeared - it was misfiled between Bill and Gil Evans CDs ....... Quote
mikeweil Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Posted April 12, 2006 (edited) Since I became curious about the way Candid held sessions of different groups on one day, I compiled a list of all original Candid sessions - please post any additions or corrections. Are the dates for the Paich and Chamber Jazz Sextet sessions correct? I have these from an older Bruyninckx disco. Thanks in advance! Candid Recordings Session List: 06-07-1957 - Marty Paich - C 9031 06-08-1957 - Marty Paich - C 9031 06-03-1958 - Chamber Jazz Sextet - C 9030 08-23-1960 - Otis Spann - C 8001, 9025 08-31-1960 - Max Roach Tentet - C 8002 09-06-1960 - Max Roach Tentet - C 8002 09-27-1960 - Richard Williams Quintet - C 8003 10-04-1960 - Don Ellis Quartet - C 8004 10-12-1960 - Cecil Taylor & Buell Neidlinger - C 8006, 9046 10-13-1960 - Cecil Taylor & Buell Neidlinger - C 8006, 9046 10-20-1960 - Charles Mingus Quartet - C 8005, 8021, 9033 10-20-1960 - Charles Mingus Octet - C 8019, 9042, 9033, 9026 11-01-1960 - Jazz Artists Guild / Newport Rebels - C 8022 11-02-1960 - Nancy Harrow - C 8008 11-03-1960 - Nancy Harrow - C 8008 11-11-1960 - Charles Mingus Octet - C 8021, 9042, 9026 11-11-1960 - Newport Rebels - C 8019, 8022, 9033, 9042, 9026 11-15-1960 - Lightnin' Hopkins - C 8010 11-19-1960 - Steve Lacy Quartet - C 8007 11-19-1960 - Clark Terry Octet - C 8009 11-25-1960 - Benny Bailey Septet - C 8011 12-05-1960 - Toshiko Mariano Quartet - C 8012 12-16-1960 - Jaki Byard - C 9018 01-06-1961 - Booker Ervin Quartet - C 8014 01-08-1961 - Cecil Taylor & Buell Neidlinger - C 9013, 9046 01-10-1961 - Cecil Taylor & Buell Neidlinger - C 9013, 9046 01-13-1961 - Cal Massey Sextet - C 9029 01-16-1961 - Memphis Slim - C 8023, 8024 01-26-1961 - Phil Woods Octet - C 8016 02-02-1961 - Abbey Lincoln - C 8015, 9033 02-10-1961 - Phil Woods Octet - C 8016 02-10-1961 - Ray Crawford Sextet - C 9028 02-23-1961 - Pee Wee Russell & Coleman Hawkins - C 8020 03-17-1961 - Booker Little Sextet - C 8027, 9033 04-04-1961 - Booker Little Sextet - C 8027, 9033 04-21-1961 - Don Ellis Trio - C 9032 XX-XX-1961 - Lucky Thompson Quartet - C 9035 I used the 8000 series numbers to denote albums released back then, 9000 for those released later by Black Lion. Edited April 12, 2006 by mikeweil Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted April 12, 2006 Report Posted April 12, 2006 8000 series were released back then, 9000 series later by Black Lion. Mike, the 8000 series was mono. The stereo issues were in the 9000 series. The first 3 sessions you list were not on the original Candid and originate from Cadence (the parent label). Quote
mikeweil Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Posted April 12, 2006 (edited) As a complementary listing, Mike Fitzgerald's issue listing from here. 9000 - Various Artists - Candid Jazz 9001 - Spann, Otis - Otis Spann Is The Blues 9002 - Roach, Max - We Insist! Freedom Now Suite 9003 - Williams, Richard - New Horn In Town 9004 - Ellis, Don - How Time Passes 9005 - Mingus, Charles - Presents Charles Mingus 9006 - Taylor, Cecil - World Of Cecil Taylor, The 9007 - Lacy, Steve - Straight Horn Of Steve Lacy, The 9008 - Harrow, Nancy - Wild Women Don't Have The Blues 9009 - Terry, Clark - Color Changes 9010 - Lightnin' Hopkins - In New York 9011 - Bailey, Benny - Big Brass 9012 - Akiyoshi, Toshiko - Toshiko Mariano Quartet 9013 - Taylor, Cecil - Jumpin' Punkins 9014 - Ervin, Booker - That's It 9015 - Lincoln, Abbey - Straight Ahead 9016 - Woods, Phil - Rights Of Swing 9017 - Taylor, Cecil & Buell Neidlinger - New York City R & B 9018 - Byard, Jaki - Blues For Smoke 9019 - Various Artists - Jazz Life, The 9020 - Russell, Pee Wee & Coleman Hawkins - Jazz Reunion 9021 - Mingus, Charles - Mingus 9022 - Various Artists - Newport Rebels 9023 - Memphis Slim - Tribute to Broonzy, Carr, Davenport, etc 9024 - Memphis Slim - USA 9025 - Spann, Otis - Walking The Blues 9026 - Mingus, Charles - Reincarnation Of A Lovebird 9027 - Little, Booker - Out Front 9028 - Crawford, Ray - Smooth Groove 9029 - Massey, Cal - Blues To Coltrane 9030 - Chamber Jazz Sextet - Plays Pal Joey 9031 - Paich, Marty - Picasso Of Big Band Jazz, The 9032 - Ellis, Don - Out Of Nowhere 9033 - Dolphy, Eric - Candid Dolphy 9034 - Taylor, Cecil - Cell Walk For Celeste 9035 - Thompson, Lucky - Lord, Lord, Am I Ever Gonna Know? ------ 9042 - Mingus, Charles - Mysterious Blues ------ 9046 - Taylor, Cecil - Air I'm missing some of the recording dates for the Taylor sessions. Edited April 12, 2006 by mikeweil Quote
mikeweil Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Posted April 12, 2006 8000 series were released back then, 9000 series later by Black Lion. Mike, the 8000 series was mono. The stereo issues were in the 9000 series. The first 3 sessions you list were not on the original Candid and originate from Cadence (the parent label). Thanks, Chuck - that explains these early recording dates. I wanted to distinguish the later issues which were not released in mono any more, but of course you're correct. Quote
Alexander Hawkins Posted April 22, 2006 Report Posted April 22, 2006 Is there an 'efficient' (i.e. without overlapping too many tracks) way to get all that CT on Candid CDs? I'm slightly confused by the various albums (NYC R&B, Cell Walk..., Air, etc.) which appear to have the same titles on them. If there's a simple answer, I'd be grateful for it - if it's a nasty one to unpick, I'll spend some time with a discography! Thanks in advance. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted April 22, 2006 Report Posted April 22, 2006 The five Taylor cds do not duplicate any performances but do contain multiple takes of some pieces. Quote
king ubu Posted April 24, 2006 Report Posted April 24, 2006 The five Taylor cds do not duplicate any performances but do contain multiple takes of some pieces. Chuck, do you know if anything is missing on the five CDs, as compared to the Mosaic? Same question for Mingus (where I think nothing is missing, but don't know for sure)! Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted April 24, 2006 Report Posted April 24, 2006 The five Taylor cds do not duplicate any performances but do contain multiple takes of some pieces. Chuck, do you know if anything is missing on the five CDs, as compared to the Mosaic? Same question for Mingus (where I think nothing is missing, but don't know for sure)! IIRC the Taylors miss one take of Air. Not sure about the Mingus. Quote
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