2006 MLB Thread

[Brad]

WFAN in New York has been non-stop baseball post mortem today. The Mike and the Mad Dog show got hold of a tape of an interview with one of the Cardinal players and in the background you can hear the Cardinal players mocking the Mets by singing that Jose song the Shea pubic announcer was playing when Reyes was up. Allegedly, LaRussa was part of it.

What a bunch of fucking assholes. Real Cardinal class. Wouldn't expect any more of that insufferable asshole LaRussa. After that pond scum comment from the 80s, what more could you expect from those morons?

God, I hope the Tigers take them out in 4 or 5. I'd love to see the Tigers celebrate in Busch.

Edited October 20, 2006 by Brad

[sheldonm]

WFAN in New York has been non-stop baseball post mortem today. The Mike and the Mad Dog show got hold of a tape of an interview with one of the Cardinal players and in the background you can hear the Cardinal players mocking the Mets by singing that Jose song the Shea pubic announcer was playing when Reyes was up. Allegedly, LaRussa was part of it.

What a bunch of fucking assholes. Real Cardinal class. Wouldn't expect any more of that insufferable asshole LaRussa. After that pond scum comment from the 80s, what more could you expect from those morons?

God, I hope the Tigers take them out in 4 or 5. I'd love to see the Tigers celebrate in Busch.

Brad,

Now I'm as big a fan of the Cards as you probably are the Mets....but I think you're taking it a little too far with the name calling and such. I agree the chanting is a bit cheesy but surely you don't believe other teams don't do the same thing (chanting, mocking) behind closed doors.....I was thinking the same thing about the ignorant mets fans every time they would boo when a cardinal pitcher threw a ball over to first base to keep a runner close....what the fuck is that all about??? Anyway, if I was a fan of the highly favored team that got beat, I would probably feel as shitty as you do now..... If it makes you feel any better, the Cardinals are not nearly as bad as their record would indicate with the many players out this year....they finally have thier starting line-up in and should be expected to compete a little better.

m~

[sheldonm]

Cards win it !!!! Beltran had no idea what to do with that last pitch.....I think he's still standing there!!! Go Cards!!!

You don't appear to know what you're talking about. When he threw that pitch to Floyd for strike 3, he showed the Mets hitters he could get it over for strikes and so Beltran had to watch for it in the first two pitches of the AB. When he threw it, there was nothing he could do with it. It was just a perfect pitch.

[/quote\\

Brad, I'd say when your down to your last strike and the little white ball is coming your way.........swing at it.....even defensively! I do agree it was a perfect pitch and not a better guy to leave standing at the plate. Not that I don't like Carlos.....but after listening to those fucking announcers talkng about him non-fucking-stop.....I thought I would go crazy.

Mark~

Edited October 20, 2006 by sheldonm

[GregK]

what a great finish, to see the mets WATCH strike three!!! that was almost as good as walking in the winning run in extra innings to lose the NLCS against the Braves!! Isn't baseball great?!

[Chalupa]

Brad, I'd say when your down to your last strike and the little white ball is coming your way.........swing at it.....even defensively! I do agree it was a perfect pitch and not a better guy to leave standing at the plate.

Mark~

I don't see how, with the season on the line, you strike out LOOKING. Okay, maybe if you're Pat Burrell. If you even remotely think that the ball is a strike you have to swing at it - try and foul it off. But to just stand there and watch the ball?? He had to have known that Wainwright was gonna be throwing that curve ball. It was the same pitch he got Floyd out on two batters earlier.

[Brad]

I'd have to say when you're down to your last strike you may be right but that thing just froze him like it woul have most hitters. There was nothing he could have done with it. It wasn't that he didn't know what to do with it.

Maybe you thought you'd go crazy because Carlos is one of the better players in the league and has burned the Cardinals quite a few times in the last few years. When the announcers were constantly talking about Albert that didn't bother me because he's one of the best players around although he mostly took off this series.

Ignorant Met fans? Got news for you buddy but the New York fans (including Yankee fans and probably Red Sox and Phillie fans) are the most knowledgeable around. No surprise there since New York collectively has won most of the World Series. Going to Busch (and I've been there a few times) is like going to a pep rally. You almost think you're at a Cornhusker home game.

[Dan Gould]

Looks like pretty brutal weather to start this thing off.

[Brad]

I hear it's going to be in the low 40s.

[Dan Gould]

I hear it's going to be in the low 40s.

With a 60% chance of showers.

BRRRRRRRR.

[Soulstation1]

my prediction

Tigers in 5 games

[GregK]

I hear it's going to be in the low 40s.

With a 60% chance of showers.

BRRRRRRRR.

It's not raining yet. Not that chilly, maybe in the mid to upper 40s. Not much different than when New York or Boston hosts the playoffs. I don't think weather will be much of a factor

[sheldonm]

I'd have to say when you're down to your last strike you may be right but that thing just froze him like it woul have most hitters. There was nothing he could have done with it. It wasn't that he didn't know what to do with it.

Maybe you thought you'd go crazy because Carlos is one of the better players in the league and has burned the Cardinals quite a few times in the last few years. When the announcers were constantly talking about Albert that didn't bother me because he's one of the best players around although he mostly took off this series.

Ignorant Met fans? Got news for you buddy but the New York fans (including Yankee fans and probably Red Sox and Phillie fans) are the most knowledgeable around. No surprise there since New York collectively has won most of the World Series. Going to Busch (and I've been there a few times) is like going to a pep rally. You almost think you're at a Cornhusker home game.

...and I have some news for you (buddy), I've probably been to most (90%) of the major league stadiums and most of the fans and their media bellieve they are the cat's meow;. This has nothing to do with the booing every time a ball is thrown to first.....just don't get it (don't get it when anyone does it, not just Met's fans).

You say collectively....the mets have hardly be a contributor to the total....compare the mets and cards post season appearances if you want to make a comparison.....this is no comparison..

By the way buddy, didn't want to make this a pissing match between you and me (I really like you ) like a couple of the guys here , just didn't agree with what you were saying......I would have a short fuse had my team just been beat by the underdog. Just so you know, I can't stand it when the announcers talk about Pujols all the time either as it is far more than one player that contributes to any teams success.....!!!....and I do think Beltran is one of the best.

m~

Edited October 21, 2006 by sheldonm

[Patrick]

And please spare us the notion that the fans must be oh so knowledgable because the NY teams (...primarily the Yankees) have had so much success. There are smart fans and hooligans everywhere, even in NY, and Boston, and Philly, and Detroit, and Chicago, and Cleveland, and DC, and Fort Wayne, and [insert your beloved home town here]. That sort of generalization/stereotype is sad. What evidence is there that the NY fans "are the most knowledgable around"? A sprinkling of anecdotes won't be convincing.

Would you suggest that most of the rest of us can't be knowledgable about jazz because we've avoided residing in/near NY (and Chicago, NOLA, KC, etc...)? Individually? Collectively? I hope not.

Mets had a great season. Hernandez and Martinez were missed. Reyes and Wright look to be the real deal, so there will be plenty of opportunities in the future. Now join most of the rest of us and watch the Series with a slightly detached enthusiasm (...cue Lasorda).

[Neal Pomea]

Cards in 6

(I have no idea)

[Neal Pomea]

A completely outmatched St. Louis Cardinals team leads 7-1 in the 6th inning. Sweep...

[sheldonm]

[Brad]

Shows you why they play the games. Not a series I'll be watching however.

[Brad]

You say collectively....the mets have hardly be a contributor to the total....compare the mets and cards post season appearances if you want to make a comparison.....this is no comparison..m~

I readily admit that we haven't been in the Series too much (although we've been only around since '62) and that you guys have the most World Series rings for the National League

To be a Mets fan (as well as a Nets or Jets fan: they all end in ets -- no coincidence I'm sure) is to be an expert in suffering

Edited October 22, 2006 by Brad

[BERIGAN]

Why is it we aren't told on a daily basis what a choker Mays was in big games? How 660 homers meant nothing?

Berrigan, Mays played years after he should have retired. The playoffs did not begin until 1969, when he was already at the end of the line.

In terms of the World Series, do not forget his catch of the Vic Wertz fly in 1954!

GA,

You are right of course....I wasn't meaning to dis Willie as just to use him as an example to show that since the beginning of time teams focus on getting one guy out(Kinda hard to do to Babe Ruth with Lou Gehrig batting behind him) and more often than not, it works, like it did with A-Rod.

I still shake my head that the Dodgers pitched to Reggie Jackson in the 1978 W.S. and nowadays Albert Pujols gets one homer(after striking out the previous A.B.) and now Leland is a complete idiot for daring to pitch to him with an open base, with 2 outs. I guess Pujols will get walked 3 times a game the rest of the series.

[BERIGAN]

HEY!!!! I forgot to mention this earlier(And even forgot to look til now) but there has been a 3 day window to peer behind the impenetrable walls of the ESPN insider to actually read the full columns of everyone. This (Sunday) is the last day, so now you know, better late than never.

And not that anyone asked, but I think one reason Beltran didn't move the bat was that it was an 0-2 count, and I am sure he thought Wainwright would waste a couple high outside fastballs, hoping Beltran would swing at one, not throw that good a curve for a strike.

Edited October 22, 2006 by BERIGAN

[Dan Gould]

Something to put those "Oh my God, he's going on only three days rest" discussions in perspective, courtesy of the NYT:

When the Pitchers Needed Less Rest in the Postseason

By MURRAY CHASS

Published: October 22, 2006

The year 1968 was one of the most memorable for pitching. Denny McLain was a 31-game winner. Bob Gibson won only 22 games, but he finished the season with an earned run average, 1.12, that prompted Major League Baseball to lower the mounds.

But the most remarkable pitching performance was saved for last and for the biggest stage of the season. In the seven-game World Series in which Detroit defeated St. Louis, Mickey Lolich, who won 17 games during the season, outpitched his teammate McLain and his opponent Gibson, and won three complete games.

Lolich wasn't the first to pitch and win three complete games in a World Series; Gibson had done it the year before. But Lolich pitched Game 7 on only two days rest.

These days, everyone in and out of baseball grabs his head in shock if a pitcher is scheduled to pitch a postseason game with three days rest. It happened last week when Tom Glavine and Jeff Weaver were scheduled to start Game 5 of the playoff series between the Mets and the Cardinals before a day of rain restored sanity to the proceedings.

But Lolich pitched on shorter than short rest, beating Gibson and the Cardinals, 4-1, on Oct. 10 after having pitched nine innings on Oct. 3 and nine on Oct. 7.

Thirty-eight years later, Lolich brought up another aspect of his 1968 World Series performance before recalling his pitching feats.

In my first at-bat, he related about his first start, Game 2, I hit the one and only home run I hit in professional baseball - 4 years in the minors, 16 years in the majors. I figured it was better than hitting it in front of 5,000 in old Municipal Stadium.

Lolich also singled and walked with the bases loaded as the Tigers won, 8-1. The left-handed Lolich allowed six hits, and the Tigers tied the Series after Gibson defeated McLain in Game 1. Gibson and McLain repeated their performances in the fourth game, and the Cardinals led, three games to one.

The next day Lolich started Game 5.

That was a real screwed-up game for me, Lolich said. José Feliciano did his seven-minute version of the national anthem. That threw me off tremendously. I was a very regimented pitcher with time on the clock. I always walked to the bullpen at a certain time, a five-minute walk.

I was in the middle of my warm-ups when he started his national anthem. Standing there, I'm getting chilled. I wasn't a happy camper. I had to start over, throwing fastballs to get loose. An umpire came down and said, "It's time to go, Mick." I said, "I'm not ready, I'm still warming up." He said: "You have to go. We're on national television." I was nowhere ready to pitch."

The Cardinals scored three runs in the first inning, two on Orlando Cepeda's home run, and threatened again in the fifth as Lou Brock doubled.

I said, "If I give up another hit, I'm going to be out of the game," Lolich recalled. "They got another hit and I said, "You're out of here." But Brock forgot to slide at the plate and was out. I kept pitching. Then I got a hit that started a rally for us, and we ended up winning."

Two days later, Lolich was sitting in the dugout during Game 6 watching McLain cruise to the Series-tying victory when Manager Mayo Smith called him over.

"Can you pitch tomorrow?" Smith said to Lolich.

"Sure, Mayo, no problem," Lolich replied. "I could throw a couple innings in relief."

"No, no," Smith said. "I want you to start. Five innings and you're out of there."

"When the fifth inning was over," Lolich recounted, "I walked off the mound, 0-0. When I hit the top step of the dugout, Mayo said, "Can you pitch one more?" I pitched the sixth, and they didn't score. I couldn't see the bullpen at the old St. Louis stadium. As I hit the top step, he said, "How about one more?" I said, "O.K., Mayo."

Then Jim Northrup hit a two-run triple in the seventh, and Lolich went to Smith. "Now I'll finish it for you," Lolich said.

"Good," Smith said. "That's what I wanted. I don't have anyone warming up."

Lolich, 66, said people frequently told him they remembered that Series and how he won it for the Tigers.

"I say, "How about 1971?" Lolich said. "I won 25 games. I completed 29 games. I struck out 308 and I pitched 376 innings. It was the first of four straight years of pitching 300 innings. And I didn't win the Cy Young, award. Vida Blue won it."

But Blue didn't pitch three complete-game victories in the World Series.

Edited October 22, 2006 by Dan Gould

[sheldonm]

I was heartbroken after that game 7 defeat but what an amazing performace by Lolich....thanks for posting!

m~

[Neal Pomea]

I remember that game 7. The mound was a mess with mud. Gibson was continually cleaning out his spikes. At the time I thought the game should have been called because of rain.

Was it the next year the rules changed and the mound was actually lowered?

[Brad]

According to the article it was. It may be time to lower them again.

[Dan Gould]

According to the article it was. It may be time to lower them again.

don't you mean raise them? Its pitching that's lacking now, not offense. Unfortunately, attendance has skyrocketed with the offensive boom, and there's just no way baseball will mess with that. 11-9 games are much more exciting than 2-1.