2006 MLB Thread

[BERIGAN]

Check out this "kid" playing for the Saudi Arabian Little League team!!!

http://www.littleleague.org/series/2006div...aarondurley.htm

[Dan Gould]

Are there ANY questions now?

Let me borrow a phrase from Jim Carrey:

So Long, F*ckers!

Edited August 21, 2006 by Dan Gould

[ghost of miles]

Wow--Yanks were down 5-3 in the bottom of the seventh and the Bosox had runners on first & second when I turned in last night. Still, how can you give up, Dan, after 2004?

[Soulstation1]

does it really matter if the sox win today?

[Noj]

Check out this "kid" playing for the Saudi Arabian Little League team!!!

http://www.littleleague.org/series/2006div...aarondurley.htm

6'8" 256lbs at 13 years old!

Where's the birth certificate?

[Heatwave]

I think it's safe to say that the Sox are finished, even if they should come back and win today's game (which I doubt). They'd be 5 games back of the Yankees in the division and if you look at the teams' respective schedules the rest of the way, it's easy to see that there really is no possible way for the Red Sox to overcome the Yankees, unless the Yankees play sub-.500 ball the rest of the way. After September 4, the Yankees only play 4 games over the final month against a team with a winning record -- and those are four vs. the Sox in Yankee Stadium. The Yankees seem well on their way to 100 wins.

So forget the Yankees. What about the Wild Card? The wild card winner this year will win at least 95 games, and probably more. Assuming the Red Sox lose today, they will need to go 27-11 to get to 96 wins. Check out their schedule and make a realistic assessment of their pitching (they have one good starter and a good closer and that's it; the rest are terrible) and tell me how they are going to play over .700 ball over that stretch. Vs. the Angels, A's, White Sox, Minnesota and Yankees? It's simply not going to happen.

[Soulstation1]

dan's gonna be in a good mood today...

[Dan Gould]

Still, how can you give up, Dan, after 2004?

I think it's safe to say that the Sox are finished, even if they should come back and win today's game (which I doubt). They'd be 5 games back of the Yankees in the division and if you look at the teams' respective schedules the rest of the way, it's easy to see that there really is no possible way for the Red Sox to overcome the Yankees, unless the Yankees play sub-.500 ball the rest of the way. After September 4, the Yankees only play 4 games over the final month against a team with a winning record -- and those are four vs. the Sox in Yankee Stadium. The Yankees seem well on their way to 100 wins.

So forget the Yankees. What about the Wild Card? The wild card winner this year will win at least 95 games, and probably more. Assuming the Red Sox lose today, they will need to go 27-11 to get to 96 wins. Check out their schedule and make a realistic assessment of their pitching (they have one good starter and a good closer and that's it; the rest are terrible) and tell me how they are going to play over .700 ball over that stretch. Vs. the Angels, A's, White Sox, Minnesota and Yankees? It's simply not going to happen.

[Dan Gould]

dan's gonna be in a good mood today...

I'm in a fabulous mood, thank you very much. I was rooting for the result which occured, my only disappointment came when the Yankees scored a run in the 8th and then WMP hit the homer. I was rooting for a 1-0 final, as that would achieve the ultimate cap of a 5 game sweep - shut out at home by a number 5 pitcher against a team that starts Nick Green at SS.

So, unfortunately, the ultimate embarassment didn't happen, but this will do just fine. This isn't Boston Massacre II - this is a whole nother animal. In 1978, they were simply blown out in four straight (if I remember correctly, the last game was 8-3 and the closest one). This team, however, found a way to lose one extra game, and to lose in every way possible:

Blown out

Blown out after blowing a 10-7 lead

A competitive game blown up by the bullpen into a rout

Having the best closer in the team's history blow a game that might have allowed them to salvage the series (if the Yankees are truly blessed, Craig Hansen has been destroyed by this experience and will never pitch to the level he was supposed to. He'll be Brad Lidge without ever earning a single save)

Finally getting lights out starting pitching and relief and still losing 2-1.

[ghost of miles]

Well, lemme tell ya, after what happened in 2004, NY could be 10 games out w/12 to play and I still wouldn't breathe easy... and the playoffs are a whole new season.

Still, I'll admit it's pretty impressive for NY to come into Fenway and take five. I don't remember that ever happening. This article sheds a little light on the history of five-game sweeps:

NY Yankees 2, Boston 1

By JIMMY GOLEN, AP Sports Writer

August 21, 2006

AP - Aug 21, 4:07 pm EDT

More Photos

BOSTON (AP) -- The New York Yankees completed an unimaginable five-game sweep at Fenway Park, beating Boston 2-1 behind six shutout innings by Cory Lidle and extending their AL East lead to a season-high 6 1/2 games over the Red Sox.

After bashing Boston in outscoring them 47-25 over three days and two early morning, the Yankees relied on their pitching to win the sleepy series finale.

Manager Joe Torre shouted in the Yankees' dugout and exchanged hearty handshakes with his coaches after the hard-to-believe sweep.

The Red Sox hadn't been swept in a five-game series since the Cleveland Indians did it in 1954. The Yankees swept Boston in five games in New York in 1951 and at Fenway in '43.

It was 28 years ago that the Yankees came to Fenway in September with a four-game deficit and left tied for the division lead -- a series remembered in baseball as the "Boston Massacre." New York, which had trailed by as many as 14 games, won the AL East in a one-game playoff settled when Bucky Dent's popup settled into the net above the Green Monster.

The Yankees and Red Sox headed to the West Coast after this game. New York left in full command of the division while the Red Sox had to be thinking about the wild card -- they began the day four games behind in that race.

With both teams' bullpens shot -- both closers were unavailable -- and everyone else lethargic after the first 16 1/2 hours of baseball wrapped up at 1:26 a.m. Monday morning, Lidle and David Wells coasted through the first five innings.

But Wells (2-3) faltered first, giving up Bobby Abreu's RBI double in the sixth to break a scoreless tie. Wells gave up two runs on six hits and a walk, striking out four before leaving with a runner on third and one out in the eighth, getting a standing ovation from the fans and his teammates.

Right after Wells left, reliever Keith Foulke threw a wild pitch that let Nick Green -- who had led off with a double -- trot home for a 2-0 lead.

Lidle (2-2), acquired at the trading deadline from Philadelphia along with Abreu, pitched six innings of shutout ball, allowing just three hits and five walks to go with five strikeouts.

Octavio Dotel, Mike Myers, Scott Proctor and Kyle Farnsworth finished it for the Yankees. Farnsworth pitched the ninth for his second save in six tries while Mariano Rivera rested after pitching two innings on Sunday night.

The Yankees also started the game resting center fielder Johnny Damon, catcher Jorge Posada and first baseman Jason Giambi while used Derek Jeter at designated hitter.

Wily Mo Pena had two hits for Boston, including a solo homer in the eighth off Proctor.

Red Sox outfielder Manny Ramirez left the game in the fifth inning with a cramp in his right hamstring. He had been the most productive player in the Red Sox lineup during the series, going 8-for-11 with two homers, seven RBIs and nine walks.

He walked twice on Monday and left after being forced at second on Eric Hinske's fielder's choice in the fourth.

Notes

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the last five-game sweep in the majors was Boston over Toronto at Fenway Park in 2002. ... Red Sox SS Alex Gonzalez, who missed the previous two games with back spasms, was originally in the starting lineup but was scratched. ... Jeter's fourth-inning single was the 1,531st of his career, tying him with Bernie Williams and Lou Gehrig atop the Yankees' all-time list. Williams reached the milestone on Friday. ... The Red Sox demoted Craig Hansen, their No. 1 draft pick in 2005, to Triple-A after he took the loss in extra innings on Sunday night. Bryan Corey was called up to replace him. ... Boston 1B Kevin Youkilis was not in the starting lineup a day after jamming his ankle and getting spiked in the hand. ... Kyle Snyder will start for Boston on Tuesday. ... Red Sox leadoff man Coco Crisp was 1-for-19 in the series. ... Torre said the groin tightness that caused starter Mike Mussina to leave Sunday night's game early was probably "just a cramp."

[sheldonm]

Well, lemme tell ya, after what happened in 2004, NY could be 10 games out w/12 to play and I still wouldn't breathe easy... and the playoffs are a whole new season.

Still, I'll admit it's pretty impressive for NY to come into Fenway and take five. I don't remember that ever happening. This article sheds a little light on the history of five-game sweeps:

NY Yankees 2, Boston 1

By JIMMY GOLEN, AP Sports Writer

August 21, 2006

AP - Aug 21, 4:07 pm EDT

More Photos

BOSTON (AP) -- The New York Yankees completed an unimaginable five-game sweep at Fenway Park, beating Boston 2-1 behind six shutout innings by Cory Lidle and extending their AL East lead to a season-high 6 1/2 games over the Red Sox.

After bashing Boston in outscoring them 47-25 over three days and two early morning, the Yankees relied on their pitching to win the sleepy series finale.

Manager Joe Torre shouted in the Yankees' dugout and exchanged hearty handshakes with his coaches after the hard-to-believe sweep.

The Red Sox hadn't been swept in a five-game series since the Cleveland Indians did it in 1954. The Yankees swept Boston in five games in New York in 1951 and at Fenway in '43.

It was 28 years ago that the Yankees came to Fenway in September with a four-game deficit and left tied for the division lead -- a series remembered in baseball as the "Boston Massacre." New York, which had trailed by as many as 14 games, won the AL East in a one-game playoff settled when Bucky Dent's popup settled into the net above the Green Monster.

The Yankees and Red Sox headed to the West Coast after this game. New York left in full command of the division while the Red Sox had to be thinking about the wild card -- they began the day four games behind in that race.

With both teams' bullpens shot -- both closers were unavailable -- and everyone else lethargic after the first 16 1/2 hours of baseball wrapped up at 1:26 a.m. Monday morning, Lidle and David Wells coasted through the first five innings.

But Wells (2-3) faltered first, giving up Bobby Abreu's RBI double in the sixth to break a scoreless tie. Wells gave up two runs on six hits and a walk, striking out four before leaving with a runner on third and one out in the eighth, getting a standing ovation from the fans and his teammates.

Right after Wells left, reliever Keith Foulke threw a wild pitch that let Nick Green -- who had led off with a double -- trot home for a 2-0 lead.

Lidle (2-2), acquired at the trading deadline from Philadelphia along with Abreu, pitched six innings of shutout ball, allowing just three hits and five walks to go with five strikeouts.

Octavio Dotel, Mike Myers, Scott Proctor and Kyle Farnsworth finished it for the Yankees. Farnsworth pitched the ninth for his second save in six tries while Mariano Rivera rested after pitching two innings on Sunday night.

The Yankees also started the game resting center fielder Johnny Damon, catcher Jorge Posada and first baseman Jason Giambi while used Derek Jeter at designated hitter.

Wily Mo Pena had two hits for Boston, including a solo homer in the eighth off Proctor.

Red Sox outfielder Manny Ramirez left the game in the fifth inning with a cramp in his right hamstring. He had been the most productive player in the Red Sox lineup during the series, going 8-for-11 with two homers, seven RBIs and nine walks.

He walked twice on Monday and left after being forced at second on Eric Hinske's fielder's choice in the fourth.

Notes

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the last five-game sweep in the majors was Boston over Toronto at Fenway Park in 2002. ... Red Sox SS Alex Gonzalez, who missed the previous two games with back spasms, was originally in the starting lineup but was scratched. ... Jeter's fourth-inning single was the 1,531st of his career, tying him with Bernie Williams and Lou Gehrig atop the Yankees' all-time list. Williams reached the milestone on Friday. ... The Red Sox demoted Craig Hansen, their No. 1 draft pick in 2005, to Triple-A after he took the loss in extra innings on Sunday night. Bryan Corey was called up to replace him. ... Boston 1B Kevin Youkilis was not in the starting lineup a day after jamming his ankle and getting spiked in the hand. ... Kyle Snyder will start for Boston on Tuesday. ... Red Sox leadoff man Coco Crisp was 1-for-19 in the series. ... Torre said the groin tightness that caused starter Mike Mussina to leave Sunday night's game early was probably "just a cramp."

...also known as "salt in the wound"!

[sheldonm]

Still, I'll admit it's pretty impressive for NY to come into Fenway and take five. I don't remember that ever happening. This article sheds a little light on the history of five-game sweeps:

[

...also known as "salt in the wound"!

[paul secor]

As Mr. Desmond put it, "Take Five", baby!

[Heatwave]

"Well, lemme tell ya, after what happened in 2004, NY could be 10 games out w/12 to play and I still wouldn't breathe easy... and the playoffs are a whole new season."

This series is precisely *why* we can't draw comparisons between what happens over the course of the regular season and a short series (in the playoffs or whenever). Going into Fenway, the Yankees had just lost a three game series to Baltimore, a team that they are obviously much better than. Then they swept Boston 5-0, a team that they are better than, but not by the tremendous margin that a 5-0 sweep (in Boston's park, no less) would suggest. The whole "anything can happen" argument works in a 5 or 7 game series because anybody can get hot and go on a run. We saw that with the Sox in 2004, who improbably came back vs. the Yankees and then swept the Cardinals. But "anything can happen" doesn't work over the course of a large sample size. Over the final 38 games, Boston is confronted by the reality of a bad starting rotation and a worse bullpen, and a lineup that relies too much on two players. The division is over and they're chasing two teams who are better than they for the wild card spot. Could the Sox take three in a row from the White Sox or Twins if they were to play them right now? Sure they could. Will the Sox play the .700 ball over their final 38 games which will be necessary to get them into the playoffs? Highly unlikely. 38 games is just too many to not expose their flaws.

[Dan Gould]

Before I depart this thread, who are you, heatwave? Have you lurked here long? What are your baseball allegiances? And will you join us in the jazz discussions?

[Dave James]

Before I depart this thread

Say it ain't so, Joe.

Up over and out.

[ghost of miles]

Heatwave,

You're more attuned to the Bosox' weaknesses than I am, but what if they come into Yankee Stadium next month and do to the Yanks what the Yanks just did to them? Yes, I'd surely bet on NY to take the division now if I had to, but I'm not ready to put a lock on the AL East just yet... re: Boston & NY, certain laws of logic do not always apply, even over a longer stretch.

You a Cardinals fan, by any chance?

[MartyJazz]

dan's gonna be in a good mood today...

I'm in a fabulous mood, thank you very much. I was rooting for the result which occured, my only disappointment came when the Yankees scored a run in the 8th and then WMP hit the homer. I was rooting for a 1-0 final, as that would achieve the ultimate cap of a 5 game sweep - shut out at home by a number 5 pitcher against a team that starts Nick Green at SS.

So, unfortunately, the ultimate embarassment didn't happen, but this will do just fine. This isn't Boston Massacre II - this is a whole nother animal. In 1978, they were simply blown out in four straight (if I remember correctly, the last game was 8-3 and the closest one). This team, however, found a way to lose one extra game, and to lose in every way possible:

Blown out

Blown out after blowing a 10-7 lead

A competitive game blown up by the bullpen into a rout

Having the best closer in the team's history blow a game that might have allowed them to salvage the series (if the Yankees are truly blessed, Craig Hansen has been destroyed by this experience and will never pitch to the level he was supposed to. He'll be Brad Lidge without ever earning a single save)

Finally getting lights out starting pitching and relief and still losing 2-1.

I was on the phone with my brother shortly after the last game ended and he pointed out what should have been obvious to me, saying simply that he just didn't recognize the Red Sox anymore what with the loss via defections, trades, injuries, of Kevin Millar, Bill Mueller, Trot Nixon, Jason Varitek, and, most importantly, Johnny Damon. They all seemed to be terrific clutch hitters against the Yanks who now are concerned only with Ortiz and Ramirez when facing the Sox. While Ramirez hit well and did some damage, the Yanks obviously pitched around Ortiz whenever they could. Add the loss of a couple of clutch pitchers like Pedro Martinez and the erratic, but always up to face the Yankees, Derek Lee, and the Sox are a very different team that won it all in 2004.

The Yankee core, offensive-wise, has remained intact from that year and obviously, they have come up with a couple of superb young players in Cano and Cabrera. Add to that the lack of financial restrictions in baseball that allow such additions as Damon - the description "looks like Jesus, acts like Judas" is particularly apt if one is a Sox fan - and lately, Abreu, and it's now quite apparent how the balance has been drastically altered between the two teams. Yanks' biggest problem (aside from less than imposing starting pitching) is what to do once Matsui and Sheffield are ready to play again.

Edit: Obviously, as Berigan has pointed out, I meant Derek Lowe (not Lee).

Edited August 22, 2006 by MartyJazz

[BERIGAN]

dan's gonna be in a good mood today...

I'm in a fabulous mood, thank you very much. I was rooting for the result which occured, my only disappointment came when the Yankees scored a run in the 8th and then WMP hit the homer. I was rooting for a 1-0 final, as that would achieve the ultimate cap of a 5 game sweep - shut out at home by a number 5 pitcher against a team that starts Nick Green at SS.

So, unfortunately, the ultimate embarassment didn't happen, but this will do just fine. This isn't Boston Massacre II - this is a whole nother animal. In 1978, they were simply blown out in four straight (if I remember correctly, the last game was 8-3 and the closest one). This team, however, found a way to lose one extra game, and to lose in every way possible:

Blown out

Blown out after blowing a 10-7 lead

A competitive game blown up by the bullpen into a rout

Having the best closer in the team's history blow a game that might have allowed them to salvage the series (if the Yankees are truly blessed, Craig Hansen has been destroyed by this experience and will never pitch to the level he was supposed to. He'll be Brad Lidge without ever earning a single save)

Finally getting lights out starting pitching and relief and still losing 2-1.

I was on the phone with my brother shortly after the last game ended and he pointed out what should have been obvious to me, saying simply that he just didn't recognize the Red Sox anymore what with the loss via defections, trades, injuries, of Kevin Millar, Bill Mueller, Trot Nixon, Jason Varitek, and, most importantly, Johnny Damon. They all seemed to be terrific clutch hitters against the Yanks who now are concerned only with Ortiz and Ramirez when facing the Sox. While Ramirez hit well and did some damage, the Yanks obviously pitched around Ortiz whenever they could. Add the loss of a couple of clutch pitchers like Pedro Martinez and the erratic, but always up to face the Yankees, Derek Lee, and the Sox are a very different team that won it all in 2004.

The Yankee core, offensive-wise, has remained intact from that year and obviously, they have come up with a couple of superb young players in Cano and Cabrera. Add to that the lack of financial restrictions in baseball that allow such additions as Damon - the description "looks like Jesus, acts like Judas" is particularly apt if one is a Sox fan - and lately, Abreu, and it's now quite apparent how the balance has been drastically altered between the two teams. Yanks' biggest problem (aside from less than imposing starting pitching) is what to do once Matsui and Sheffield are ready to play again.

Where you watching Cubs highlights while posting??? (though I think Derrick Lee is still out.)

You do make good points. I was using the BoSox as an example a few weeks back on the Atlanta Paper's baseball forum,(Since many Braves fans still act like we can't possibly trade Marcus Giles, or Renteria, for guess what, pitching!!!) Saying, hey the Red Sox have a whole new infield this year, and they are in the hunt!

Well, one theory is that you have to continually tweak a team even after winning the W.S., which makes some sense , not standing pat and expecting everyone that had great years the previous season to do it again, like you said, not everyone is going to be gamers like Kevin Millar, Derek Lowe, etc. But the Sox big need, like most every other team in baseball is pitching, and nobody seems to want to trade good starters anymore, and nobody wants to trade blue chip prospects either. So, the Sox better sign Jason Schmidt this offseason, or hope there are some great arms at AA that will be stars next year....

Edited August 22, 2006 by BERIGAN

[BERIGAN]

And what's up with the Blue Jays??? If that whole Shea Hillenbrand thing hadn't happened, I'd say Ted Lilly fighting with John Gibbons meant that Lilly was a total headcase, but there has to be something brewing with that team....it can't just be bad eggs on the team, can it???

[Big Al]

Can't believe the Rangers took three of four from the Tigers on the Tigers home turf.

....yet we can't beat the lowly Devil Rays with one of our best pitchers, Adam Eaton. Go figure......

Edited August 22, 2006 by Big Al

[Dan Gould]

I was on the phone with my brother shortly after the last game ended and he pointed out what should have been obvious to me, saying simply that he just didn't recognize the Red Sox anymore what with the loss via defections, trades, injuries, of Kevin Millar, Bill Mueller, Trot Nixon, Jason Varitek, and, most importantly, Johnny Damon. They all seemed to be terrific clutch hitters against the Yanks who now are concerned only with Ortiz and Ramirez when facing the Sox. While Ramirez hit well and did some damage, the Yanks obviously pitched around Ortiz whenever they could. Add the loss of a couple of clutch pitchers like Pedro Martinez and the erratic, but always up to face the Yankees, Derek Lee, and the Sox are a very different team that won it all in 2004.

The Yankee core, offensive-wise, has remained intact from that year and obviously, they have come up with a couple of superb young players in Cano and Cabrera. Add to that the lack of financial restrictions in baseball that allow such additions as Damon - the description "looks like Jesus, acts like Judas" is particularly apt if one is a Sox fan - and lately, Abreu, and it's now quite apparent how the balance has been drastically altered between the two teams. Yanks' biggest problem (aside from less than imposing starting pitching) is what to do once Matsui and Sheffield are ready to play again.

Marty:

With two years to run on Pedro's enormous Met contract, and Pedro on the shelf yet again this year, is anyone doubting that it was the right move to let him walk?

You are taking a single clutch performance and calling Derek Lowe "always up to face the Yankees". He SUCKED against the Yankees 90% of the time. The Sports Guy's term "the Derek Lowe face" came up after one of his many collapses against them. Have you forgotten that when the Sox made a final push for the division in 2004, it was Lowe who couldn't get out of the first inning?

The "lack of financial restrictions" line is missing one element: its a lack of financial restrictions on ONE TEAM. Every other team has financial restrictions: its called a budget. The second highest revenue/payroll team could have gotten Abreu, but 24 million in salary+luxury tax was not acceptable. It meant nothing to the Yankees.

Kevin Millar: Extraordinarily streaky in his career, he's now streaking his way out of baseball. 2005 was horrible, and his season with Baltimore is completely forgettable. Meanwhile, Youklis is matching his power numbers, way exceeding his OBP and BA, and plays a far better first base.

Bill Mueller: Yeah, great player, a gamer and all that - but the Dodgers gave him a bunch of money as a free agent, he had knee surgery yet again, and is now toast. What was supposed to be 3 weeks rehab has turned into a lifetime because his knees just can't handle it anymore. Makes the Lowell trade look pretty good.

You may not "recognize" the team anymore, but no one can argue that those moves were the correct ones, particularly now.

As for Trot Nixon: His injury history and declining production marks him as gone after this season. Strikes me, however, as analogous to the Bernie Williams situation for the Yankees: longest tenure on the team, old friend, been through the wars together, terribly declining skill set. The Yankees had Bernie signed through and beyond his declining skills. I'll be happier wishing Trot the best elsewhere than watching him play like Bernie Williams, ca 2005. That's smart management. And were you at all impressed with Wily Mo Pena? Just talking about the final game: the guy who is supposed to K more often than he farts went 0-2 and worked it to a full count walk. Then barely touched an outside pitch and hit it into the bullpen. You watch ... next year, the year after, WMP is going to be Jim Rice ca 1978, only with a better glove and arm.

While I will always maintain that this season was lost, in chronological order

1) When Foulke did not regain his form and Papelbon didn't go to the starting rotation

2) When Wells, and then Clement, went down, resulting in the endless succession of Jason Johnson, et. al starts.

3) When Tavarez and Seanez spit the bit and forced the on-the-job learning of Hansen and Delcarmen

4) When Clemens decided that keeping the hometown fans happy was more important than his own happiness.

the loss of Wakefield and Varitek were the final nails in the coffin. Wakefield's absence meant that one of the few pitchers who could go 7 or 7+ innings was gone, leading to the final implosion of the overworked bullpen. And while Varitek wasn't hitting very well, the young guys in the pen and rotation had some success with him, and I think that was related to his pitch-calling and ability to spot necessary adjustments mid-game. I don't have splits, but I am sure that Delcarmen, Hansen and Lester all have terrible numbers since Varitek went down.

If you haven't noticed, Marty, the team has been in transition since 2004. Those core players who came together for a magical 3 months were at the end of their lines, for the most part. Can anyone doubt that the Red Sox are better off with Youk instead of Millar, Lowell instead of Mueller, Loretta instead of Bellhorn, and that Pedro would decline further and wasn't worth the money/years?

So yeah, you don't recognize the team anymore. And its obvious Theo has made some bad decisions as well as good ones (Renteria; the jury may be out on Coco but I am inclined to say it was a bad decision).

But you know what? We're down to about 90 million committed to 2007. That leaves 30-35 million dollars for free agents or added payroll via trade. Jason Schmidt? Andruw Jones? Julio Lugo? a closer like Borowski so Papelbon can be a starter?

I may be terminally depressed over this year, but I remain extremely optimistic going forward.

[Matthew]

And what's up with the Blue Jays??? If that whole Shea Hillenbrand thing hadn't happened, I'd say Ted Lilly fighting with John Gibbons meant that Lilly was a total headcase, but there has to be something brewing with that team....it can't just be bad eggs on the team, can it???

Must be something about the water up there, seems as if the Blue Jays have always had weird managers. Wasn't it Buck Johnson, a Blue Jay's manager, who said he was in Viet Nam, and never was? The Jay's have always been a strange franchise...

Edited August 22, 2006 by Matthew

[Heatwave]

"You may not "recognize" the team anymore, but no one can argue that those moves were the correct ones, particularly now.

As for Trot Nixon: His injury history and declining production marks him as gone after this season."

Theo dropped the ball by not re-signing Pedro and Damon, though I basically agree about the other players. Anybody who has Pedro will have to deal with a few weeks on the DL, but he's still a great pitcher. Theo made two fairly glaring errors of judgement after 2004. He 1) overestimated his own prospects (typical gaffe of a young GM) and 2) underestimated the need to keep the 2004 team intact and to mortage some of the future on a win-now situation. When you have a deadly duo of Ortiz and Manny in the middle of your lineup, you need to build around them, win now and let the future be damned. The second-richest team in the sport can certainly afford to do this, because when you have Boston's money, you don't need to ever "rebuild," you can just buy what you need when you need it. But Theo would have his fans believe otherwise -- since 2004, he has steadfastly refused to raise the team's payroll despite the revenue streams exploding with dollars. Where is this money going, I wonder? Lining the pockets of John Henry, no doubt. Maybe these locks on the checkbook were part of what nearly drove Theo out of town; I don't know. All I know is that what was a very special situation in 2004 has been dismantled by poor management since then. 2007 doesn't look to be much better, as the Sox are in dire need of pitching and there is little to be had via free agency. And what there is will be competed for by the Yankees, who will be in the market for a star starter of their own next year.

As for Nixon, if his injury history and declining production mark him as being gone next year, then why in the hell didn't Boston offer a bag of baseballs of their own to get Bobby Abreu? The Yankees gave up virtually nothing to get him; they just assumed his contract (which they made Philly pay for, for 2006!) Why couldn't Boston do this? The money certainly isn't an issue, as they have plenty of it, and they also are in need of a RF next year. Wily Mo Pena is a career fourth outfielder, so I can't imagine they have plans to start him in right next year...

Bad management. Theo apparently dismantled his 2004 team to build for 2008 (when Schilling and Ramirez will be gone). Good luck with that.

[MartyJazz]

Marty:

With two years to run on Pedro's enormous Met contract, and Pedro on the shelf yet again this year, is anyone doubting that it was the right move to let him walk?

You are taking a single clutch performance and calling Derek Lowe "always up to face the Yankees". He SUCKED against the Yankees 90% of the time. The Sports Guy's term "the Derek Lowe face" came up after one of his many collapses against them. Have you forgotten that when the Sox made a final push for the division in 2004, it was Lowe who couldn't get out of the first inning?

The "lack of financial restrictions" line is missing one element: its a lack of financial restrictions on ONE TEAM. Every other team has financial restrictions: its called a budget. The second highest revenue/payroll team could have gotten Abreu, but 24 million in salary+luxury tax was not acceptable. It meant nothing to the Yankees.

Kevin Millar: Extraordinarily streaky in his career, he's now streaking his way out of baseball. 2005 was horrible, and his season with Baltimore is completely forgettable. Meanwhile, Youklis is matching his power numbers, way exceeding his OBP and BA, and plays a far better first base.

Bill Mueller: Yeah, great player, a gamer and all that - but the Dodgers gave him a bunch of money as a free agent, he had knee surgery yet again, and is now toast. What was supposed to be 3 weeks rehab has turned into a lifetime because his knees just can't handle it anymore. Makes the Lowell trade look pretty good.

You may not "recognize" the team anymore, but no one can argue that those moves were the correct ones, particularly now.

As for Trot Nixon: His injury history and declining production marks him as gone after this season. Strikes me, however, as analogous to the Bernie Williams situation for the Yankees: longest tenure on the team, old friend, been through the wars together, terribly declining skill set. The Yankees had Bernie signed through and beyond his declining skills. I'll be happier wishing Trot the best elsewhere than watching him play like Bernie Williams, ca 2005. That's smart management. And were you at all impressed with Wily Mo Pena? Just talking about the final game: the guy who is supposed to K more often than he farts went 0-2 and worked it to a full count walk. Then barely touched an outside pitch and hit it into the bullpen. You watch ... next year, the year after, WMP is going to be Jim Rice ca 1978, only with a better glove and arm.

While I will always maintain that this season was lost, in chronological order

1) When Foulke did not regain his form and Papelbon didn't go to the starting rotation

2) When Wells, and then Clement, went down, resulting in the endless succession of Jason Johnson, et. al starts.

3) When Tavarez and Seanez spit the bit and forced the on-the-job learning of Hansen and Delcarmen

4) When Clemens decided that keeping the hometown fans happy was more important than his own happiness.

the loss of Wakefield and Varitek were the final nails in the coffin. Wakefield's absence meant that one of the few pitchers who could go 7 or 7+ innings was gone, leading to the final implosion of the overworked bullpen. And while Varitek wasn't hitting very well, the young guys in the pen and rotation had some success with him, and I think that was related to his pitch-calling and ability to spot necessary adjustments mid-game. I don't have splits, but I am sure that Delcarmen, Hansen and Lester all have terrible numbers since Varitek went down.

If you haven't noticed, Marty, the team has been in transition since 2004. Those core players who came together for a magical 3 months were at the end of their lines, for the most part. Can anyone doubt that the Red Sox are better off with Youk instead of Millar, Lowell instead of Mueller, Loretta instead of Bellhorn, and that Pedro would decline further and wasn't worth the money/years?

So yeah, you don't recognize the team anymore. And its obvious Theo has made some bad decisions as well as good ones (Renteria; the jury may be out on Coco but I am inclined to say it was a bad decision).

But you know what? We're down to about 90 million committed to 2007. That leaves 30-35 million dollars for free agents or added payroll via trade. Jason Schmidt? Andruw Jones? Julio Lugo? a closer like Borowski so Papelbon can be a starter?

I may be terminally depressed over this year, but I remain extremely optimistic going forward.

Excellent refutation of many of my key points with the exception that you did not note that Alex Gonzalez appears to be an improvement over Renteria, despite which for 2004 alone, Orlando Cabrera performed the best of the three shortstops when the money was on the line. Also, the fact that the Yanks were financially able to do what they wished with respect to the acquisition of Abreu, means that financial structure (not just the ability to adhere to a budget) IN ALL OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, is simply lacking. I believe that roster salary caps as well as revenue sharing, as exists in the NFL, make for a stronger, more competitive environment. And of course I'm speaking as a happy Yankee fan who nevertheless can see the big picture.