Today's Less Than Popular Jazz Scene

[randissimo]

A lot of younger players with chops to spare, go out there after college or music school with the intention of exercising to the fullest, their " AMAZING CHOPS"... They too often approach the music as if it were some kind of competitive sport.. I've also noticed that a lot of Jazz artists and bands playing festivals and concerts, look as if they were performing a recital, with very little awareness given to enlightening or entertaining the audience. They seem to think the pyrotechnics of the music and their solos will simply dazzle the audience and get them over..

You can have great compositions with brilliant arrangements and a band full of monster technicians, but if everybody onstage looks like a bored stone face with no awareness of, or concern for the audience, the audience in many cases, becomes bored..

Most of the people at a concert, club, or festival want to connect with the music. Pat Metheny, Bela Flek, Poncho Sanchez, Billy Childs, Wayne Shorter, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, Joey DeFrancesco, Lonnie Listen Smith, Dave Liebman, Oregon, and Ben Sidran are some examples of Jazz artists I've seen who have chops to spare , but connect with the audience simply because there is an obvious joy of playing radiating from each individual onstage..

To quote Dennis Miller, "This is my opinion and I could be wrong"

Edited July 25, 2003 by randissimo

[Jim Alfredson]

Randy, excellant points. This has been discussed recently on the board via this thread:

So how's your local jazz scene?

The audience can't be forgotten or ignored. We as a trio have discussed this before and I've come to realize that even if it appears that people aren't listening, they actually are. They're just waiting for something to grab their attention. It could be a song, it could be some banter from the stage... I think you've noticed I've been trying to go Cannonball on the audience and talk to them and talk about the songs with them and include them into the music-making process.

Personally, I can't wait for our gig tonight. I think we're going to have a blast and I'm making it my responability to make sure the audience has a blast, too!

[randissimo]

Randy, excellant points.  This has been discussed recently on the board via this thread:

So how's your local jazz scene?

The audience can't be forgotten or ignored.  We as a trio have discussed this before and I've come to realize that even if it appears that people aren't listening, they actually are.  They're just waiting for something to grab their attention.  It could be a song, it could be some banter from the stage... I think you've noticed I've been trying to go Cannonball on the audience and talk to them and talk about the songs with them and include them into the music-making process. 

Personally, I can't wait for our gig tonight.  I think we're going to have a blast and I'm making it my responability to make sure the audience has a blast, too!

Right on Jimbo! I saw Cannonball in E. Lansing at the Stables a year before he passed on.. It was one of the most memorable nights of music for me .. They swung and grooved on every tune and Cannonball had a great repoire with the audience. He was very relaxed and had an infectious personality onstage and a great sense of humor..

I'm looking forward to the gig tonight as well!

Edited July 25, 2003 by randissimo

[pryan]

Really good observations, Randy. I find, from some of my listening experiences at a local sort-of jazz club, that some younger cats who sit in can really tear up the changes, but not in a good way. Sure, some of what they play is harmonically advanced and all the notes are "correct", but it doesn't really speak to the people (or me, at least), if you catch my drift. It's almost as if there's too much thinking/planning ahead in the solo, it's all there beforehand, hence no interaction with the other members of the group. I know it's sometimes difficult to do if you're just sitting in, but still I don't think it's too much to ask someone to at least LISTEN to what, say, the rhythm section is doing. I know, too, that everybody has to have licks of some sort (what's that thing Pres said to a young pianist, "Bird has his licks, I have my licks, you have your licks"), but still there has to be some kind of "spontaneity", to make the performance/solo stand out.

The reason (or one of many reasons really) why I dig Pres so much is his ability to truly create beautiful melodies that the average guy can sing, hum, etc. but they're still musically and emotionally profound and, sometimes, technically difficult.

Edited July 25, 2003 by pryan

[randissimo]

Really good observations, Randy. I find, from some of my listening experiences at a local sort-of jazz club, that some younger cats who sit in can really tear up the changes, but not in a good way. Sure, some of what they play is harmonically advanced and all the notes are "correct", but it doesn't really speak to the people (or me, at least), if you catch my drift. It's almost as if there's too much thinking/planning ahead in the solo, it's all there beforehand, hence no interaction with the other members of the group. I know it's sometimes difficult to do if you're just sitting in, but still I don't think it's too much to ask someone to at least LISTEN to what, say, the rhythm section is doing. I know, too, that everybody has to have licks of some sort (what's that thing Pres said to a young pianist, "Bird has his licks, I have my licks, you have your licks"), but still there has to be some kind of "spontaneity", to make the performance/solo stand out.

The reason (or one of many reasons really) why I dig Pres so much is his ability to truly create beautiful melodies that the average guy can sing, hum, etc. but they're still musically and emotionally profound and, sometimes, technically difficult.

Right on Pryan... A lot of players miss the most important key word,,,"LISTEN"..

Too many times I have played gigs where I have felt boxed in because nobody seemed to be listening to each other..

[chris olivarez]

Randissimo I'll overlook the fact that you quoted scumbag Miller.Everything else is dead on.

[Soul Stream]

Like it's always been in jazz....play a ballad...that clarifies who's really playing up real quick. Also, if done right, a ballad will have the audience back with you every time. True emotion can't be ignored no matter how indifferent the audience.

Next time you think you need a second, third or fouth funky tune to keep the audience's attention. Or another Coltrane tune to let people know how badass you are. Drop a ballad on them. I think you'll be surprised at the positive vibe you'll get back.

Not to be preachy, especially since I'm no expert. Just something that's worked for me on occassion when I feel the audience drifting off.

Edited July 26, 2003 by Soul Stream

[Free For All]

Amen, SoulStream-

My feeling is: play a ballad and DON'T go into double time, AT ALL! Too often it's like "let's get through the head chorus so we can double up the time and turn this into a medium swing tune!". Of course, it's harder to play on a ballad tempo because technique is much less an issue and melody and phrasing become more important. If you want to do a med. swing tune, do just that. When you play a ballad, do just THAT!

[Soul Stream]

Amen, SoulStream-

My feeling is: play a ballad and DON'T go into double time, AT ALL!  Too often it's like "let's get through the head chorus so we can double up the time and turn this into a medium swing tune!". Of course, it's harder to play on a ballad tempo because technique is much less an issue and melody and phrasing become more important. If you want to do a med. swing tune, do just that. When you play a ballad, do just THAT!

I couldn't agree more. Also, just hearing a jazz musician play the melody to a ballad seems increasingly rare. Man, hear Fathead Newman or Dewey Redman play a ballad...I love it when they play the melody, give another soloist some, and they're back with the melody. End of ballad. The End.

I think ballads are an opportunity to bring everyone, musicians and audience, back to square one musically. It's a nice contrast to the rest of the set. Plus, they're really the best vehicle to express yourself emotionally imho. So they're fun to play.

Edited July 26, 2003 by Soul Stream

[randissimo]

Amen, SoulStream-

My feeling is: play a ballad and DON'T go into double time, AT ALL!  Too often it's like "let's get through the head chorus so we can double up the time and turn this into a medium swing tune!". Of course, it's harder to play on a ballad tempo because technique is much less an issue and melody and phrasing become more important. If you want to do a med. swing tune, do just that. When you play a ballad, do just THAT!

Ballads are cool as long as the people I'm playin' with know how to phrase the melody, use dynamics, and tell a story to get their solo over. In my experiences I've found that some rooms are just too busy and the crowd too loud to effectively play a ballad. I played an outdoor gig recently where too many ballads were called and watched the audience grow bored

and many people even left..

Sometimes I'll double the tempo at the bridge or the 2nd time tru the changes with a lite & tasty 12/8 latin feel over a 2 feel for contrast. Doubling the tempo can be done tastefully if the bass player has sense enough to stay in the original tempo and not double up and walk the quarter notes and keeps a relaxed and loose feeling with the drummer.

To sum it up; Ballads in my opinion are very cool, but can get boring and die a slow death if not played with feeling, as well as everybody listening to each other. And too many ballads in a set can dampen the enthusiasm of the audience as well as the players...

Edited July 27, 2003 by randissimo

[Dan Gould]

Can a non-musician give a comment about ballad playing?

When I was living in Tallahassee, the jazz scene was nearly non-existent despite the presence of two strong jazz programs, and Marcus Roberts has lived there for many years. Herb Harris and Marcus Printup played a gig at a club-not sure if the club typically booked jazz; the clientele was heavily on the yuppie side, professionals who probably all worked in state government or in the capital building.

So, the band hits, and they're very good (I think the rhtyhm section-or at least the pianist-played on Printup's Nocturnal Traces). They play a couple of uptempo tunes to start, and then they bring it down with a lovely ballad. And what happens?

The room ERUPTS in conversation and I realized that these losers had no idea who they were listening to and didn't give a fuck about them. The band was no longer blasting at full strength and now you could talk to your neighbor, so damn near everyone started to do precisely that.

Pissed me off and I swore I had to get the hell out of Tallahassee soon.

[Free For All]

In many clubs it seems that if you intend to play any ballads, you have to do it early, like during the first set. As the crowd gets increasingly "medicated" and loose the whole point of playing a ballad seems to become moot (now, I must also say I've seen many players who were able to quiet a noisy room musically, I mean w/o yelling "SHUT UP!" on the mic, just by playing with conviction and finesse). Some clubs have "quiet" policies which can help, and certainly in a "concert hall" situation rowdiness is not as much of an issue, but the funky and noisy clubs seem to necessitate a slightly different type of programming. That being said, they're also often some of the best places to play as far as audience energy is concerned. For the most part, I prefer the funky weekend crowd to the "museum" audience that seems to be in a collective coma. It all depends on what kind of group it is- music that's highly "detailed" and uses a lot of space (that ought not to be filled by blenders and drunks) often fares better in a quiet environment. Funky, grooving, dare I say "greazy" music often thrives from the drone of the room. Just my opinion.

Edited July 28, 2003 by Free For All

[Jim Alfredson]

I saw Joey DeFrancesco at the Bird of Paradise once a year or so ago. He was burnin' as always (playing my B3 I might add!) but towards the end of the first set he started playing a ballad... I think it was Laura. Anyway, there were these two middle-aged women in the corner of the room talking voraciously the whole show. It was quite distracting since this is supposed to be a listening room.

So Joey is playing this ballad and they are blabbing at the top of their lungs. People are going "Shhh!" and they don't even realize it's directed towards them. Oblivious, they just keep on yapping. So Joey looks at his bandmates and they start playing quieter and quieter and quieter until you can barely hear them and all you can hear is these two ladies. Everybody is looking at them and they still don't get it.

Finally Joey says on the mic, "Ladies, excuse me..." and gets their attention. "Ladies, this is a nice ballad we're playing isn't it? Why don't you make it easier for everyone to hear this nice ballad and talk outside, ok?" They were so embarassed that they didn't dare get up.

They were quiet the rest of the night.

In my experience, a ballad can only usually be played at the beginning of the night. Friday night when we played the Bird this weekend we played some nice ballads throughout the night and it worked fine, but the room had a listening crowd. Saturday night the crowd was more raucous and we tried to play a ballad during the second set. It worked ok, but there was a whole group to the side and in the back talking through the whole thing. Still, we got some serious applause after it was done.

[Soul Stream]

I play a lot of loud rooms. Even if you're playing an all out funk show like Maceo Parker, he drops "Over The Rainbow" on them in the middle of the set. Why? Obviously the crowd wants to funk out! Right? Well, it changes gears on their ears, so even if they don't applaude or seem to dig it. I think you've changed the tempo and now they can get back to grooving.

I found even a grooving audience needs a curveball once in a while. And a ballad is a nice way to do it, whether they seem to appreciate it or not. A ballad always has a place in the set list imho. If played and placed in the proper way setwise.

Of course there are no hard and fast rules. I've been afraid to play a ballad in certain circumstances, but have regretted it later in the set when a sameness sets in to the songlist.

[Free For All]

Of course there are no hard and fast rules.  I've been afraid to play a ballad in certain circumstances, but have regretted it later in the set when a sameness sets in to the songlist.

I think that's the best approach- no rules. It's important to be able to read the audience/situation and be flexible enough to "audible". I've given up on the specific set list 'cause I never stick with it. I just keep a list of tunes separated by styles (med. swing, ballads, etc.); usually I have an opener and closer in mind, but otherwise all bets are off.

[Rooster_Ties]

I've given up on the specific set list 'cause I never stick with it. I just keep a list of tunes separated by styles (med. swing, ballads, etc.); usually I have an opener and closer in mind, but otherwise all bets are off.

So then I just need to sneak Sun Ra's "Brainville" into your tune list (it is in The Real Book - though I wouldn't have a clue if the changes were correct), and start sending the right mental waves your direction some night, and just wait for it to happen!!

[Free For All]

Due to excessive wear and mistreatment my Real Book only goes from about D to T.

"Brainville", hmmm....................I don't know if my solo would work over those changes.

[Jim Alfredson]

We usually don't use set lists either. It's like... too constrictive to my positive spirituality, man!

Fly by the seat of your pants. That's what I'm about!

[randissimo]

We usually don't use set lists either. It's like... too constrictive to my positive spirituality, man!

Fly by the seat of your pants. That's what I'm about!

......you're scarin' me!

[Dan Gould]

I should clarify by saying that in my opinion, the rude, pathetic crowd I dealt with was NOT a listening crowd by any stretch. 95-99% of them were NOT a jazz crowd at all. They were a bunch of yuppies getting drunk on a Friday night and couldn't give a rip who was on the bandstand. That's why I had to get out of Tallahassee!

[Soul Stream]

Talk about your lame audiences. The other night I got a note on the bandstand...it read somehting to the effect of..."Hey, I know you're jazz guys. But could you play" Ina Gada Da Vida" or "Roadhouse Blues?"

[vibes]

Talk about your lame audiences. The other night I got a note on the bandstand...it read somehting to the effect of..."Hey, I know you're jazz guys. But could you play" Ina Gada Da Vida" or "Roadhouse Blues?"

Sad, but very funny at the same time

[Jim Alfredson]

Super lame. Reminds me of the time I got a note asking for "Brown Eyed Girl". This is after we've been playing for three hours. I wanted to ask the chick, "Uh... have you listened to a note that we've played at all?!?"

It's like the time I got a request for some Tina Turner when playing with my blues/R&B band which is composed of five GUYS. Our lead singer is a baritone. And again, we'd been playing for two sets or so and this dumbass gets up and asks for "What's Love Got To Do With It". ARE YOU RETARDED?!?

[randissimo]

Talk about your lame audiences.  The other night I got a note on the bandstand...it read somehting to the effect of..."Hey, I know you're jazz guys.  But could you play" Ina Gada Da Vida" or "Roadhouse Blues?"

Sad, but very funny at the same time

This could become an out of control rant.... American people (especially the generations under 50 yrs old) today culturally and artistically seem to be shallow and superficial with little or no real interest in the creative arts..

Maybe too much media hype, TV and Pop culture influence? However, there is a promising generation of young uns in their early 20's who seem to be more into the creative side of music and art...

Edited July 28, 2003 by randissimo

[randissimo]

I've been running into a lot of kids in fact in their late teens who are into people like Frank Zappa, Coltrane, Miles, Monk,

Horace Silver, etc.. I think they are getting tired of being spoon fed

jive pop music by corporate America and realize there is a lot more deepness out there... I like some of the younger bands like Phish and Dave Mathews.. In fact, the jam band trend seems to be growing...