ghost of miles Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Jackie McLean - Destination Out (click to buy) I first heard this album in August 1995, around the time that Blue Note put it out in the Connoisseur series (it's now available as an RVG and as part of the Moncur Mosaic Select set). The pleasantly oppressive nature of the opening Moncur composition, "Love and Hate," and the overall brooding mood of the album served as a perfect soundtrack to Bloomington during that hot, humid, and listless spell in early August, after summer sessions have ended and the students have not yet returned for the fall. Three of the four compositions here are by Moncur, in fact; "Esoteric," which features some terrific vibes playing by Bobby Hutcherson, and the blues "Riff Raff" are the others. This particular incarnation of the McLean/Moncur band has Roy Haynes on drums instead of Tony Williams (not sure why--had he already left for Miles at this point?), and maybe that's why this record seems slightly more subdued--in a good way--than the records made with Williams, which I also love. I know that the subject of "avant bop" is distasteful to some, but to me, this is one of its most successful records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 "Pleasantly oppressive," nice description. I find this tune "Love & Hate" makes me mournfully reflective. Maybe its just the Negra Modelos. Listening now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) This particular incarnation of the McLean/Moncur band has Roy Haynes on drums instead of Tony Williams (not sure why--had he already left for Miles at this point?) Yup. Williams joined Miles in May, this album was recorded in September. I have to say that I like One Step Beyond better than this album, both compositionally and performance-wise. "Love and Hate" is really nice, but the blues at the end is kinda ho hum. I haven't listened to this in a while -- looking forward to it. Guy Edited March 26, 2006 by Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 This particular incarnation of the McLean/Moncur band has Roy Haynes on drums instead of Tony Williams (not sure why--had he already left for Miles at this point?) Yup. Williams joined Miles in May, this album was recorded in September. I have to say that I like One Step Beyond better than this album, both compositionally and performance-wise. "Love and Hate" is really nice, but the blues at the end is kinda ho hum. I haven't listened to this in a while -- looking forward to it. Guy 'One Step Beyond' os also my favorite of the three related recordings (this one and Moncur's 'Evolution' being the other two), and it came first, but this is pretty great. Also not to be missed is McLean's 'Action', which has Hutcherson instead of a pianist, but the other horn is the wonderful Charles Tolliver, who contributes fabulous writing also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 I've known this record since it first came out around 1965. Heard "Esoteric" on the radio and went out and bought the album. I'm sitting here trying to figure out which of the McLean-Moncur albums I like best, and can't. This one is a little starker, or bleaker, than the other two (not counting "Hipnosis" which came out more than a decade later) but I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 i don't like it too much, but don't forget "bout soul" is a mclean and moncur one as well. there is a good version of "love and hate" on beaver harris' album "beautiful africa" which features moncur and ken mcintyre up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 I like it a lot. Thanks for bringing it up in this context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) Hey, I happened to spin this album just last week! One of my favorite McLean Blue Notes, and my favorite of the three related albums (I like it just a tad more than One Step Beyond and quite a bit more than Evolution.) You mention "avant bop" being distasteful to some...well, for me this is avant bop that works---evocative, atmospheric, but also substantive, never dull, richly repaying repeated listening. I'll admit, the kick-in time, so to speak, was one or two years. I had the album at least that long before putting it on in '98 or '99 and suddenly having it click for me. But often the longer it takes an album to kick in, the more you love it when it does. I'll be listening to it again soon, thanks to this thread. Edited March 28, 2006 by BruceH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 This was my favorite until I heard Action. Both are now equal billing. Moncur's "Love and Hate" is an amazing tune; I also like "Khalil the Prophet" quite a bit. Will post more thoughts later; my BNs are inaccessible right now but I remember this record like the back of my hand (which, not coincidentally, is also in storage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 clifford, I hope your stuff is in climate controlled storage. Rats is liable to get to that hand of yours... I think I actually like this album more than One Step Beyond. I feel like I wrote up a semi-lengthy compare/contrast of the two (run-on sentences and all) once before. I wonder if it was here or BNBB. I'll look. And tomorrow I'll listen to this disc again. Had a good conversation with a drummer friend of mine just last week about Out To Lunch! and the sparse playing from Tony Williams through some of the heads. I think Roy Haynes brings an entirely different aesthetic to the music. Kit players of this caliber can really change the feel of the music just as much, if not more than the rest of the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Climate controlled, for sure! Hope their a/c doesn't break! You don't want to know what's in there... For some reason, One Step Beyond never "took" for me. Maybe it's Anthony, though I usually like him during this period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 (edited) 'One Step Beyond' is my favourite of the three McLean/Moncur albums. The p;aying is fine on both but it's Hutcherson who grabs my ear much of the time. His comping and soloing is wonderful. He rarely sounded better. Edited March 29, 2006 by JohnS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Great album. I too prefer it to One Step Beyond. I think that Jackie sounds just a little more confident with the concepts here, perhaps due to Haynes. Or not. But yeah. And one of the greatest BN covers of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Agreed on that - and Action also has a great cover! Evolution is pretty sweet, too, but I find myself pulling these other two out just a bit more. "Air Raid," though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 I can't think there's a Jackie Mc BN that I don't like. It was stunning to see Moncur, Jackie and Hutch perform "Love and Hate" at the Blue Note a couple of years ago. All the weight of the original was there, a wavering and dusky tonality that settled over the entire room. Awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Agreed on that - and Action also has a great cover! Evolution is pretty sweet, too, but I find myself pulling these other two out just a bit more. "Air Raid," though... 'Evolution' is one of my all-time favourites. Just the right balance of groove and experimentation, with T. Williams on fire. I think I have 4 vinyl copies of that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Wanna unload one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 A striking, mysterious document. At this level ("One Step Beyond," "Evolution"), rankings and comparisons are a little moot--this is a level of quality, consistency, and musicality that is singular among the canon of so-called 'classic' albums. These Blue Note discs are paradigmatic 60's post-bop/avant--the gold standard for modern mainstream music, back before the usual devices got rarefied and 'old.' "Destination Out" is special for me not just because it's well-played, brilliantly composed, and excellently constructed (although it's all those things, I maintain)... there's something dark, almost subversively intellectual about it--somewhere in the area of an Agnes Martin painting--as if the sparse structures and stark, oblique improvisations are merely patterning, a mechanical context for some deeper, bluer emotional core. The whole album is like a cold road to warm, if that makes any sense--and it gets to me in strange ways. This is one session that I will never, ever abandon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Agnes Martin and Ellsworth Kelly at the same time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 I'm a bit late to this discussion but it is a truly great album, one of my favourite McLeans and indeed one of my favourite BNs. His sound (possibly due to recoding technique) comes across just as sharp but a bit darker around the edges on this album. I was listeneing to this last night in bed on the iPod and one thing occurred to me, and it's probably all ocurred to this bunch already but, I wonder if this particular disc is responsible for the concept and whole dynamic behind Dave Holland's recent quintets. Sure there's similarity between the instrumentation (that difference in tonal qualities and range between the trombone and vibes always has me hooked), but just the whole feel of Holland's writing and structure comes across as a latter day Destination Out. Am I talking crap? Have a listen to Points Of View and Prime Directive to see if I'm making any sense at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 I was listeneing to this last night in bed on the iPod and one thing occurred to me, and it's probably all ocurred to this bunch already but, I wonder if this particular disc is responsible for the concept and whole dynamic behind Dave Holland's recent quintets. Sure there's similarity between the instrumentation (that difference in tonal qualities and range between the trombone and vibes always has me hooked), but just the whole feel of Holland's writing and structure comes across as a latter day Destination Out. Am I talking crap? Have a listen to Points Of View and Prime Directive to see if I'm making any sense at all I remember reading an interview with Dave Holland where someone asked him about this and he said that no, he wasn't influenced by the McLean recordings. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 I was listeneing to this last night in bed on the iPod and one thing occurred to me, and it's probably all ocurred to this bunch already but, I wonder if this particular disc is responsible for the concept and whole dynamic behind Dave Holland's recent quintets. Sure there's similarity between the instrumentation (that difference in tonal qualities and range between the trombone and vibes always has me hooked), but just the whole feel of Holland's writing and structure comes across as a latter day Destination Out. Am I talking crap? Have a listen to Points Of View and Prime Directive to see if I'm making any sense at all I remember reading an interview with Dave Holland where someone asked him about this and he said that no, he wasn't influenced by the McLean recordings. Guy So someone else obviously thought the same... Who was it? Am I in good company???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 When I tried to interview him, Holland was kind of a dick about influences. He wouldn't admit to anything like that. So, it probably did influence him! Prime Directive is pretty good, though haven't listened to it in a couple of years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted March 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 When I tried to interview him, Holland was kind of a dick about influences. He wouldn't admit to anything like that. So, it probably did influence him! Artists in all walks of aesthetic life tend to be a bit defensive when questioned about influences that seem obvious... I wondered the same thing when I read Guy's post and did not take Holland's denial to necessarily be the end-all of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Yeah, but Jackie wasn't at all defensive on similar questions... super nice guy. But your point is well taken! Rarely do I ask questions like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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