What's the difference between Cool and West Coast Jazz?

[Dmitry]

Or is it?

[John L]

The problem is that sometimes the terms are used to mean the same thing, sometimes not.

Literal West Coast Jazz would include a lot of artists who would not fit the term "Cool:" Teddy Edwards, Sonny Criss, Hampton Hawes, Curtis Counce, Curtis Amy, Eric Dolphy, Art Pepper, Horace Tapscott, etc.

Conversely, if you believe that the "Birth of the Cool" really was that, then we are talking about East Coast origins.

[Stereojack]

"Cool jazz" describes a style of music. "West Coast Jazz" was a marketing term coined by Dick Bock of the Pacific Jazz label, specifically for his artists Gerry Mullligan and Chet Baker. Since the music of many (but not all) of the "West Coast" artists can be considered "cool", the terms have become interchangeable in some peoples' minds. They shouldn't be, since a fair amount of cool jazz actually originated elsewhere, and a number of California musicians did not play "cool" jazz.

[Dr. Rat]

It's a pretty messy questions. There's geographically West Coast Jazz that isn't much different (or any) from what was going on on the East Caost. There's cool jazz from other places than the West Coast.

What I like to think about when the phrase "West Coast Jazz" is used is the distinctive music made by folks associated with the West Coast, many of whom worked day jobs in Hollywood, that took the innovations of bop, combined them with innovations of their own (including a stronger role for the composer and arranger in small group stuff), and tried to apply the understated approach of Lester Young to the new music.

So I'm thinking Lennie Niehaus, Mulligan, maybe Buddy Collette, Russ Freeman, some Shelley Manne stuff, Bill Perkins, Cy Touff, Jimmy Giuffre, even some Mingus stuff. To me it made for a sort of sound, coming at some of the musical issues of the day from a different angle than, say, Gillespie or Blakey were. To me, a lot of those Pacific records hang together as a genre, and that's what I mean when I say "West Coast Jazz."

--eric

[GA Russell]

I would add two points to the cool jazz topic.

First, I think that Shorty Rogers had a major place. And I disagree with the comment that Art Pepper was not a cool jazz player.

Second, a lot of the cool jazz on the Contemporary label that I've heard bordered on third stream - heavily influenced by classical music.

[JSngry]

Here's the tome to turn to:

[jlhoots]

Then there's the new John McNeil Quartet CD "East Coast Cool".

[ghost of miles]

West Coasters have more sun.

[ghost of miles]

Here's the tome to turn to:

Yes! What's Gioia up to these days, anyway? I interviewed him over the phone a few years ago--great guy, generous with his time, enthusiastic about his subject.

[(BB)]

Cool may be thought of as primarily a W. Coast thing, with Contemporary, Pacific and the like, but some of my favorite Shorty Rogers sides are on RCA and Atlantic. And Miles – Blue Moods on Debut has to one of the more non-W.Coast cool school records out there.

W. Coast, as Giola looks at it covers the waterfront from Kenton to Mingus & Dolphy, The lighthouse crew, Brubeck and Desmond, Chet & Mulligan, Dexter, Hampton Hawes, Giuffre, Shorty, Shelly and even Ornette iirc.

So to answer your original question, no not really, but maybe sort of.

[Jazzmoose]

So to answer your original question, no not really, but maybe sort of.

I'd say that's the definitive answer to this particular question...

[RDK]

So to answer your original question, no not really, but maybe sort of.

I'd say that's the definitive answer to this particular question...

Heck, that might be my new definitive answer to all questions!

[Joe]

To complicate matters, East Coasters such as Max Roach and Sonny Clark both put in regular stints at the Laguna Lighthouse.

And then there's Charles Mingus...

[Kalo]

Here's the tome to turn to:

I'm with Sangrey. Read this book. It's excellent.

Edited March 13, 2006 by Kalo

[BruceH]

Here's the tome to turn to:

I'm with Sangrey. Read this book. It's excellent.

Same here. A book to read and reread.

[Free For All]

tome

Hardbop? Is that you?

[Dr. Rat]

Here's the tome to turn to:

I'm with Sangrey. Read this book. It's excellent.

Same here. A book to read and reread.

It is a great book, BUT it doesn't do much to settle the question of genre/style. Gioia essentially says "West Coast Jazz" is jazz made on the West Coast.

Though he does have helpful things to say in his chapters on what I would consider to be the definitive figures.

--eric

[Stereojack]

It is a great book, BUT it doesn't do much to settle the question of genre/style. Gioia essentially says "West Coast Jazz" is jazz made on the West Coast.

I think that's the point. There is no "West Coast" style - the term covers too many varied artists.

[Dr. Rat]

It is a great book, BUT it doesn't do much to settle the question of genre/style. Gioia essentially says "West Coast Jazz" is jazz made on the West Coast.

I think that's the point. There is no "West Coast" style - the term covers too many varied artists.

Like I say: I think there's an identifiable style (not ALL jazz made on the West Coast, but distinct and pretty strongly associated with LA), as practiced by folks like the ones I listed in my earlier post.

The term initially meant to refer to that distinct style. Kind of like "Kansas City Jazz" or "Chicago Blues" whatever geographically defined style you might want to mention: of course it doesn't cover all music made in that location, and of course it was possible to play in that style somewhere else.

--eric