Kenny Dorham's Blue Lament. 1961 unissued BN session.

[Joe]

I need to listen to this one again... but my recollection is that my first listening experience was too painful (disappointing, but more than that) to make me want to listen to it again. 

[bertrand]

On 11/23/2022 at 12:36 PM, bresna said:

I'm listening again to this and I do have to agree with Chuck that it's probably Charles Davis' playing that has kept this date from being released. But now that Michael Cuscuna is gone and Blue Note seems more willing to release stuff like this, I suspect we all might get a chance to hear this on a official release someday.

The 1959 Blakey came out because Zev Feldman wanted it released and talked Don Was into it. Cuscuna's previous assessment seems to have been ignored, or maybe he changed his mind?

If Zev pushes the KD date it might have a chance. But does he care about this one?

Edited November 26, 2022 by bertrand

[JSngry]

The Blakey session was not without merit. I'm afraid that the Dorham is. 

[danasgoodstuff]

Does this date have Kenny Dorham tunes that were not recorded elsewhere?

[bertrand]

5 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Does this date have Kenny Dorham tunes that were not recorded elsewhere?

One was recorded by the Messengers around the same time (Blue Ching). Blue Lament was recorded by Don Sickler years later. The other four are orphaned.

[Dan Gould]

On 11/24/2022 at 6:45 AM, Joe said:

I need to listen to this one again... but my recollection is that my first listening experience was too painful (disappointing, but more than that) to make me want to listen to it again. 

 

10 hours ago, JSngry said:

The Blakey session was not without merit. I'm afraid that the Dorham is. 

I was motivated to relisten by Joe's comment. I do not find the session meritless.

 

 

3 hours ago, bertrand said:

One was recorded by the Messengers around the same time (Blue Ching). Blue Lament was recorded by Don Sickler years later. The other four are orphaned.

If I remember correctly, Blue Lament appeared only years later on a CD reissue? I know I replaced the vinyl I had when I found out that a CD - Music of Kenny Dorham - had several extra tracks.

[bertrand]

It looks like Blue Lament was not on the vinyl version, but that is the only bonus track as far as I can tell.

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, bertrand said:

It looks like Blue Lament was not on the vinyl version, but that is the only bonus track as far as I can tell.

I could be wrong and I bought the CD just for the extra track, singular.

[mikeweil]

2 hours ago, bertrand said:

It looks like Blue Lament was not on the vinyl version, but that is the only bonus track as far as I can tell.

That is correct.

[Gheorghe]

I must admit I never bought the BN unrelease or rejected sessions or tracks too happily. The first CD pressings of the classic BN albums didn´t have so many alternative tracks and the Japanese CDs never had those " bonus tracks". 
Maybe I´m alone with that opinion, but for me there is much enough BN material that was considered worth for issuing when it was the time it was recorded. 
As for Kenny Dorham: I have his earlier BN albums with the original Messengers, the Afro Cuban album and the live album at Bohemia. 
The next album that really fascinates me is "Una Mas". I later bought the "Whistle Blow" from the early 60´s, but not because I wanted to buy it but it was in the last days of record shops and some guy showed it to me and I thought, ok Paul Chambers, Philly Joe Jones, why not. But it was too much like the typical hard bop albums of the 50´s , and the early 60´s already was the time for other movements, so after one listening I think it is somewhere...., while "Una Mas" with Joe Henderson and Tony Williams is of much more interest for me. 
So there is little chance I might hear an unreleased session, even more because I read a lot of comments here that it was not a good session with musicians not in best form, and to study their music I prefer to here them in a fine playing mood.....

[andybleaden]

Well 

I have a fair bit of Kenny Dorham

 

This is not his best but nor is it his worst.

 

If you can snaffle a copy as this may not get released officially (but you never know) then do 

 

It is better than 60% of what I have heard of Kenny Dorham

 

in my sonically challenged world

[Daniel A]

13 hours ago, andybleaden said:

It is better than 60% of what I have heard of Kenny Dorham

Well, "The Blue Note Kid" should know! 😄

[JSngry]

I would like to know what constitutes the 40%.

[EKE BBB]

6 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I would like to know what constitutes the 40%.

So would I. Not many issued Kenny Dorham sessions are weak, from my perspective.

Edited November 30, 2022 by EKE BBB

[JSngry]

Or, more likely, the 60% that is lamer than this one. What's in there?

[JSngry]

19 minutes ago, EKE BBB said:

 Not many issued Kenny Dorham sessions are weak, from my perspective.

This one is weak, physically weak. people chops are down and/or impaired. And nobody triumphs over it, they succumb to it.

[EKE BBB]

2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

This one is weak, physically weak. people chops are down and/or impaired. And nobody triumphs over it, they succumb to it.

I'm not able to give an opinion, since I do not have a copy of this session. 

[hgweber]

18 hours ago, JSngry said:

This one is weak, physically weak. people chops are down and/or impaired. And nobody triumphs over it, they succumb to it.

while this is a weak session, GGreen's solos, especially on 9 1/2 street remind of his playing on the sessions with parlan and ervin and are among his best. 1961 was a great year for him.

[andybleaden]

On 11/30/2022 at 12:53 PM, EKE BBB said:

So would I. Not many issued Kenny Dorham sessions are weak, from my perspective.

That is true - I have a fair few that were also radio broadcasts and would love to see more issued  - as they did with the Half Note sessions

I just gave the Blue Lament another play and in particular Mason Dixon Line - I still like it