Kenny Dorham's Blue Lament. 1961 unissued BN session.

[Hardbopjazz]

Did we ever get a reason why this session was deemed rejected? I have fess to up and say, I got to hear this the other day. I listened to it twice, and in my judgement, it is good. I would rate it a 3 out of 5. It swings! I can't understand why it hasn't been issued. Too bad I couldn't get a copy.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Hardbopjazz

[bertrand]

The decision is made by Blue Note. Some people may have different opinions, but there's nothing that can really be done.

Back in 1999 on the old board, we were asked to select unissued sessions to be released for the 60th anniversary hooplah. This one was requested multiple times, but the answer was a firm no. I could have sworn I was told that KD was off-mike. Is that the case?

BTW, why are you referring to it as Blue Lament? I don't think they had gone as far as picking a title. That's the name of a tune that was on the session that Don Sickler recorded later on his KD tribute.

Bertrand.

[Chuck Nessa]

I could have sworn I was told that KD was off-mike. Is that the case?

Bertrand.

Off form is more like it. Another detraction is Charles Davis.

[Hardbopjazz]

BTW, why are you referring to it as Blue Lament? I don't think they had gone as far as picking a title. That's the name of a tune that was on the session that Don Sickler recorded later on his KD tribute.

Bertrand.

That's what I was told the working title was.

[Peter Friedman]

I have a copy of this session with Kenny Dorham, Charles Davis, Kenny Drew, Grant Green, Wilbur Ware, and Philly Joe Jones. I even have a traycard and booklet that looks very much like an official Blue Note production, though it is doubtful that it was done by Blue Note.

Personally, I consider the music to be worthy of release. In fact, I find this session to be as good if not better than some other Blue Note recordings that have been issued.

[Joe]

I dearly love Dorham's work, but, for whatever reason, he was struggling in the studio this day. At times, he sounds completely winded.

On the plus side, there's some terrific early Grant Green to be heard here.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Joe

[John Tapscott]

I must have missed something. If it was unissued, how is it that some people have it?

Edited March 9, 2006 by John Tapscott

[Hardbopjazz]

I must have missed something. If it was unissued, how is it that some people have it?

Sometimes pipes spring leaks and water gets out, and I guess somehow this session found it's way out of the pipes.

[mikeweil]

Why can't this happen with Tyrone Washington's famed session?

[Hardbopjazz]

Why can't this happen with Tyrone Washington's famed session?

Maybe it did.

[Daniel A]

Regarding the unreleased Washington session, I've seen someone comment upon it somewhere - probably back on the BNBB - so there seems to be copies around.

[andybleaden]

and I am not jealous about the KD sides either

In fact this reminds me of the thread .wayyy back when, when someone listed all the unissued sessions from the discography that were unissued not rejected...these I guess were rejected which is another matter

Is there a running tally of what bootlegs there are out there?

( So i can keep my eyes well away)

[Rooster_Ties]

Regarding the unreleased Washington session, I've seen someone comment upon it somewhere - probably back on the BNBB - so there seems to be copies around.

There's some feedback floating around (first seen on an AAJ thread) about the unreleased Tyrone date --- from someone who's a friend of MC, who got to hear a small handful of unreleased sessions (right off the master tapes, so to speak).

As far as I know, this date has not "gotten out".

[Brad]

Based on the above comments, this sounds like a mixed bag. While I would love more KD, if he's not at his best, maybe it's best to keep it hidden away.

[Dave James]

Considering there is virtually no unreleased material left in the Blue Note vaults, and considering how fanatical most jazz people are about the label, how could you lose by putting out some sessions that that were originally deemed unreleasable. At the time, when the future seemed unlimited, you had the luxury of saying "that doesn't measure up." Now that the turnip has all but been bled dry, it might be easier to view this in a different light. How about a Select called Blue Note Oddities or something like that. I'd buy it in a heart beat just to see what all the fuss was about.

Up over and out.

[Brad]

Considering there is virtually no unreleased material left in the Blue Note vaults, and considering how fanatical most jazz people are about the label, how could you lose by putting out some sessions that that were originally deemed unreleasable. At the time, when the future seemed unlimited, you had the luxury of saying "that doesn't measure up." Now that the turnip has all but been bled dry, it might be easier to view this in a different light. How about a Select called Blue Note Oddities or something like that. I'd buy it in a heart beat just to see what all the fuss was about.

Up over and out.

Wasn't that sort of the idea of the Lost Sessions, which, frankly, weren't all that great.

[Dave James]

Brad,

I thought about The Lost Sessions while I was putting up my post. You know, some of LS wasn't pretty good (Ike Quebec) and some of it was excellent (Hubbard/Rouse). But, as you say, there was some that was pretty bad (Gordon/Stitt).

One thing a Select would do for sure is give people the opportunity to hear what they've only heard about. No matter how you slice it, whether that turns out to be a good thing or truly unlistenable, you've silenced the "why can't we have this" crowd once and for all.

Up over and out.

Edited March 28, 2006 by Dave James

[BruceH]

Indeed, the Lost Sessions CD starts out great, goes into the merely good, and ends up with the not-so-good/can see why it wasn't released. But I'm glad I have it for the good stuff. At this point in history, I think releasing the Dorham session makes sense.

[clifford_thornton]

You only "lose" potentially $15 in the deal, so it's not that bad!

[andybleaden]

Well if someone wants to stick a load of unrelated and unreleased Blue Note recordings on a cd and want financial backing then , with due consideration following the recent cash for peerage row in the UK and me not getting the expected peerage; I am willing to send my contribution ($15) to Blue Note to 'help them out'

Just mail me the address and the cheque is on its way.

Do I still get a title? Lord Bleaden of Blue Note has a certain charm

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I'm listening again to this and I do have to agree with Chuck that it's probably Charles Davis' playing that has kept this date from being released. But now that Michael Cuscuna is gone and Blue Note seems more willing to release stuff like this, I suspect we all might get a chance to hear this on a official release someday.

[danasgoodstuff]

It does seem more likely now, but the merely 'unissued' rather than 'rejected' Grant Green session from 1970 seems even more likely, if it still exists.

[jazzbo]

If it does appear it will be hyped as an incredible lost album!

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I almost think that Davis sounds drunk or something. He's so far behind the beat in places he makes Dexter Gordon look quick.

[JSngry]

And KD's chops give out before all is said and done.

It's the one leaked session that is really not worth having been leaked.