Lee Morgan's 9-13-1968 Blue Note session

[Hardbopjazz]

HAs this session ever seen the light of day? It is listed in my Blue Note discpgraphy as unissued. I would love to hear some un-heard Lee Morgan.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Three of the tracks:

Extemporaneous

Mickey's tune

Leebop

were included as bonus tracks on Lee's album "The sixth sense" issued in 1999 on BN 22467.

I like them. Actually, I like quite a lot of Frank Mitchell - a modern tenorist well in the tradition of the honkers and screamers of the forties.

MG

[bertrand]

The other three tracks:

'Blues For Mr. Tatum' (Mabern) - 'The Chief' (Mabern) - 'The Sleepwalker' (Morgan) have been deemed unfit for release by Blue Note.

A live version of 'The Chief' with Bennie Maupin can be heard on the Lee Morgan Fresh Sound CD Live at The Lighthouse '70 (last track CD #1). It's mistitled on an earlier pressing, but the title is correct on the new pressing. Frank Strozier also plays this tune (with Mabern) on his 1975 CD What's Goin' On.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mabern also recorded 'Blues For Mr. Tatum' elsewhere. Tom Lord anyone?

Bertrand.

[Hardbopjazz]

I have the tracks from the Six Sense. Too bad the other tracks aren't any good.

[bertrand]

I didn't say they weren't any good. I just said Blue Note said they were unfit for release. They initially said the whole session should be burned, yet later released three cuts so go figure.

The same discussion applies to your KD post.

Bertrand.

[Peter Friedman]

Just checked my TOM LORD and no other version of "Blues For Mr. Tatum" is listed other than on the unissued Lee Morgan session.

Listening right now to the three unissued tracks.

BLUES FOR MR. TATUM - Lee Morgan, Frank Mitchell, and Harold Mabern all take decent solos, but nothing

really special happens. This track is on the dull side.

THE SLEEPWALKER - A nice Hard Bop unison head gets this track underway. Mabern gets the first solo which is far more interesting than on the previous track. Frank Mitchell comes next and his playing here also surpasses the earlier track. Lee may not be at his best here, but certainly plays a better solo than on the first tune.

THE CHIEF - Frank Mitchell is the first soloist and seems a bit shakey in spots. Nonetheless, with so little by him available this is worth hearing. Morgan follows Mitchell with a short but perfectly ok solo. Harold Mabern has a short but rather sweet solo spot. Lee Morgan trades eight's with Billy Higgins before the theme returns ending this tune.

In summary, it is my view that not issuing the track "Blues For Mr. Tatum" is no real loss. However, "The Sleepwalker' and "The Chief" are well worth being commercially released.

[bertrand]

A little birdy told me there is a crummy bass solo on one of these tracks. Was I misinformed?

Bertrand.

[Shawn]

This little birdy can tell you that the bass is cruddy on the entire album...even the tracks that were issued on Sixth Sense. In my opinion, it's the main thing that drags this session down a few notches.

[Chuck Nessa]

If I understand correctly, this is a thread complaining about the "unavailability" of stuff the complainer already had (at least in part). Did I miss something?

[Chuck Nessa]

If I understand correctly, this is a thread complaining about the "unavailability" of stuff the complainer already had (at least in part). Did I miss something?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

  Chuck Nessa said:

If I understand correctly, this is a thread complaining about the "unavailability" of stuff the complainer already had (at least in part). Did I miss something?

Nope. And two or three people seem to have heard the unissued recordings. Wish I knew how. I'd like to hear Grant Green's Live at Club Mozambique set.

MG

[andybleaden]

Me too

Judging by the wonderful stuff that came out on Westbound/Eastbound ( never get it right way round) this should have been an absolute sorcher

AND in some of the notes I have seen , mention is made of a tv show with this group playing live

Any more info rewarded with life peerage in the house of lords ( usual fees apply)

There are several of these 'unissued' sets that got snuck out ...not that I am jealous

, I mean I do not even collect Blue Note records , or any jazz for that matter

Glad to see someone on here has got em anyway

Way to go

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

  andybleaden said:

Me too

Judging by the wonderful stuff that came out on Westbound/Eastbound ( never get it right way round) this should have been an absolute sorcher

AND in some of the notes I have seen , mention is made of a tv show with this group playing live

Any more info rewarded with life peerage in the house of lords ( usual fees apply)

There are several of these 'unissued' sets that got snuck out ...not that I am jealous

, I mean I do not even collect Blue Note records , or any jazz for that matter

Glad to see someone on here has got em anyway

Way to go

MG

[david weiss]

Actually, I was given the assignment of picking the bonus tracks from this session to add to The Sixth Sense. I think I stand behind my decision, I thought everything else was just a bit off. The tune The Chief is killer and would have loved to included this but I just didn't think the performance was up to snuff.

[Soul Stream]

  david weiss said:

Actually, I was given the assignment of picking the bonus tracks from this session to add to The Sixth Sense. I think I stand behind my decision, I thought everything else was just a bit off. The tune The Chief is killer and would have loved to included this but I just didn't think the performance was up to snuff.

But don't you think sessions such as these are just inevitabley going to come out at some point in the future. Maybe not next year, but 30 years from now even a bad BN session will probably sound better to most people's ears than many other things.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

  david weiss said:

Actually, I was given the assignment of picking the bonus tracks from this session to add to The Sixth Sense. I think I stand behind my decision, I thought everything else was just a bit off. The tune The Chief is killer and would have loved to included this but I just didn't think the performance was up to snuff.

How do you get a job like that, David?

MG

[andybleaden]

Was n't jealous before now I am really jealous

I nominate myself to do the editing for the Grant Green set at Club Mozambique and I am writing a nice letter off to Mr Tony Blair with a suitable size cheque.

I will of course let all of you sneer when I take fame and glory in the music press for my legendary fluffed endings on songs and typos on the cover!

[bertrand]

It's a tough job being a record producer. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

David was given the assignment of listening to the date and, as a musician, could hear what was 'a bit off'. Now that he chose to omit those tracks, there are some complaints. Had he decided the whole session was releasable, he would have gotten complaints too, to the tune of 'this is one date Blue Note had been better off leaving in the can'.

My one complaint is that this session was first dismissed as 'needs to be burned'. That was obviously an exaggeration.

There is an obvious solution to the problem of how to make the remaining material in the Blue Note vaults that is 'a bit off' but not wretched available to the consumer. Make these tracks available on iTunes or some other download site (I vote for iTunes since it is what I use). At $.99 a tune, and 5-6 tunes an album, no one could complain about having spent a fortune on 'inferior material'. A good candidate would be the rejected Wayne Shorter session which David has admitted elsewhere (was it all about jazz?) is really not a total disaster. With a bit of clever marketing, this might just work. I really don't believe the current regime at Blue Note could pull this off, to be honest.

Bertrand.

Edited March 30, 2006 by bertrand

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

  bertrand said:

It's a tough job being a record producer. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

David was given the assignment of listening to the date and, as a musician, could hear what was 'a bit off'. Now that he chose to omit those tracks, there are some complaints. Had he decided the whole session was releasable, he would have gotten complaints too, to the tune of 'this is one date Blue Note had been better off leaving in the can'.

My one complaint is that this session was first dismissed as 'needs to be burned'. That was obviously an exaggeration.

There is an obvious solution to the problem of how to make the remaining material in the Blue Note vaults that is 'a bit off' but not wretched available to the consumer. Make these tracks available on iTunes or some other download site (I vote for iTunes since it is what I use). At $.99 a tune, and 5-6 tunes an album, no one could complain about having spent a fortune on 'inferior material'. A good candidate would be the rejected Wayne Shorter session which David has admitted elsewhere (was it all about jazz?) is really not a total disaster. With a bit of clever marketing, this might just work. I really don't believe the current regime at Blue Note could pull this off, to be honest.

Bertrand.

I do agree it's a thankless job, whether you get it right or wrong. The idea of putting the somewhat duff cuts out as downloads sounds pretty sensible, to me.

Perhaps someone would put Grant Green's first five tracks from 1956 out that way.

MG

[andybleaden]

I agree and I wish we could offer to help out from over here across the pond. I would LOVE to be involved in any small way in anything like this.

I loved what came out on the Sixth Sense and leave the decisions to those most involved.

Like I mentioned before my experience is limitied to editing the announcers voice of the top 40 radio countdown when I was a kid ...and I alway fluffed that...perhaps I could stick the cds in the trays!...mind you ...I get that wrong at home...spent hours the other day looking for a cdr I had of John Patton Soul Connection and found it hidden under Jimmy Smith......the language was rather blue to say the least.

I would welcome the chance to hear fresh material and do think the best way is to do unreleased stuff via an download thing..then the risk is lessened......however I am also reminded of an oft quoted response on this board that we need to spend more time with the classics we have and get to know them better

Hmmmm Not so sure now

[david weiss]

  The Magnificent Goldberg said:

  david weiss said:

Actually, I was given the assignment of picking the bonus tracks from this session to add to The Sixth Sense. I think I stand behind my decision, I thought everything else was just a bit off. The tune The Chief is killer and would have loved to included this but I just didn't think the performance was up to snuff.

How do you get a job like that, David?

MG

I had done some work for Blue Note in the past, especially some Lee related stuff (I co-produced the Live at the Lighthouse box and the Standards CD with Bob Belden, who bought me in on both projects) but in this instance, it was just a matter of running into Michael Cuscuna at the Blue Note offices and the topic came up in discussion and he said that he was re-issuing the Six Sense and was thinking of using some of the tunes from this session as bonus cuts and would I be interested in going through the session and seeing what I thought was suitable. After regretfully turning him down, he twisted my arm and talked me into it...kidding, I jumped at the chance. I think in my mind, I was sticking to the standard at the time which was only the strongest stuff should be included and that's what I think I did. If that standard has changed then on another go around I guess they could include more, which would suck I guess for the people who already own it. The download thing makes sense to me, there is a lot I've heard that this would make perfect sense for, hopefully someday down the road this will happen.

Edited April 5, 2006 by david weiss