Jimmy Smith: playing Coltrane before Coltrane

[johnagrandy]

Well I picked up "The Sermon" ... but this isn't a Jimmy Smith album this is a Lee Morgan album (not that I'm complaining, Lee is in top form, especially on JOS).

What's a top pick for a Jimmy Smith album that features Jimmy Smith ????

[Jim Alfredson]

"Crazy Baby"

[Soul Stream]

Well I picked up "The Sermon" ... but this isn't a Jimmy Smith album this is a Lee Morgan album (not that I'm complaining, Lee is in top form, especially on JOS).

What's a top pick for a Jimmy Smith album that features Jimmy Smith ????

Honestly, go pick up any Jimmy Smith Blue Note trio album. Or on Verve...."Organ Grinder Swing" or "The Boss."

Still, when it comes to Jimmy Smith, I like The Sermon as a great place to start since it's a more Hard Bop format with horns that most jazz fans can relate to right off the bat.

[andybleaden]

The Sermon always does it for me as did House Party and most of all Open House/Plain Talk...which I have always thought was the business.

As for the links between him and Coltrane, they have both acknowledged each other in the past and see no reason not to believe either of them

Andy

Edited April 11, 2006 by andybleaden

[Jim Alfredson]

Wow, I'll NEVER sell my Jimmy Smith albums. To each his own.

The only organist I really listen to is Larry Young. Sorry to Jim, and everybody else!

Don't apologize to me. I feel sorry for you! You're really missing out on some great music! Just off the top of my head (and keeping it to "newer" organists in the non-Jimmy Smith mold):

Larry Goldings - One of the few people who's releases I buy the instant they come out. He always makes interesting records with great originals that warrant repeated listenings. And he really uses the drawbars on the organ to coax different and unique sounds.

Sam Yahel - His work in his own trio and with Joshua Redman in Yaya3 is fantastic. Another organist who is not afraid to push the boundaries, experiment with different sounds, and separate himself from the Jimmy Smith club.

Dan Wall - A truly original voice on the instrument. Check out his work with tenor saxophonist Jerry Bergonzi.

Medeski, Martin, & Wood - People dismiss them as a "jamband" or novelty, but they aren't listening. Medeski is one of the most influential keyboardists on the planet right now.

Jared Gold - He has not recorded much, but there is a really great record on the label that organissimo used to be on, PKO Records, with guitarist Randy Napoleon, which is very very nice.

Joe Bagg - A member of Anthony Wilson's trio... again, not too many recordings, but his playing is very cliche-free.

and of course...

organissimo - C'mon... you gotta buy at least one of our records!!

[paul secor]

Getting back to the Jimmy Smith/Trane thing. Trane may have heard J.S., just as he may have heard John Gilmore play some things and been influenced by him (Sun Ra's claim - actually, I believe Sun Ra claimed that Trane stole his whole way of playing from John Gilmore, which is ridiculous, to my mind). There was probably a lot of music that John Coltrane heard and that influenced his music, but it all came out as John Coltrane, not anything else.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Getting back to the Jimmy Smith/Trane thing. Trane may have heard J.S., just as he may have heard John Gilmore play some things and been influenced by him (Sun Ra's claim - actually, I believe Sun Ra claimed that Trane stole his whole way of playing from John Gilmore, which is ridiculous, to my mind). There was probably a lot of music that John Coltrane heard and that influenced his music, but it all came out as John Coltrane, not anything else.

Absolutely. Trane learned a lot from Earl Bostic, who he said knew more about saxophones than anyone else. Any jazz musician who doesn't learn from others is a bit odd.

MG

[Guy Berger]

Getting back to the Jimmy Smith/Trane thing. Trane may have heard J.S., just as he may have heard John Gilmore play some things and been influenced by him (Sun Ra's claim - actually, I believe Sun Ra claimed that Trane stole his whole way of playing from John Gilmore, which is ridiculous, to my mind).

In an interview (Kofsky?), Trane was talking about "Chasin' the Trane" and mentioned that he'd been listening to Gilmore at the time.

Guy

[paul secor]

Getting back to the Jimmy Smith/Trane thing. Trane may have heard J.S., just as he may have heard John Gilmore play some things and been influenced by him (Sun Ra's claim - actually, I believe Sun Ra claimed that Trane stole his whole way of playing from John Gilmore, which is ridiculous, to my mind).

In an interview (Kofsky?), Trane was talking about "Chasin' the Trane" and mentioned that he'd been listening to Gilmore at the time.

Guy

Yeah - I'd remembered that Trane mentioned somewhere that he'd listened to Gilmore at some point - thanks for the reminder that it was the Kofsky interview. I think that I've tried to forget Kofsky completely. Anyway, all I was saying was that Coltrane may have picked up something from Gilmore (as he may have from J.S. and others), but when it came out of his horns it was all Coltrane.

[Soul Stream]

I guess getting back to the original intent of my post...

Jimmy Smith doesn't get the credit he deserves as a harmonic innovator. People just think of him as a bluesy soul jazz innovator. One quick listen to "Groovin' At Small's Paradise" would change all that for most people, especially when they look at the date of the recording.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I guess getting back to the original intent of my post...

Jimmy Smith doesn't get the credit he deserves as a harmonic innovator. People just think of him as a bluesy soul jazz innovator. One quick listen to "Groovin' At Small's Paradise" would change all that for most people, especially when they look at the date of the recording.

The significance of November 1957 escapes me, I'm afraid. What am I missing?

MG

Edited April 14, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[Soul Stream]

I guess getting back to the original intent of my post...

Jimmy Smith doesn't get the credit he deserves as a harmonic innovator. People just think of him as a bluesy soul jazz innovator. One quick listen to "Groovin' At Small's Paradise" would change all that for most people, especially when they look at the date of the recording.

The significance of November 1957 escapes me, I'm afraid. What am I missing?

MG

I guess that this is the same year that Coltrane was putting out Blue Trane and Lush Life. My point that Jimmy was on the leading edge of this sort of harmonic direction, with the main recorded evidence being "Groovin' At Smalls."

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I guess getting back to the original intent of my post...

Jimmy Smith doesn't get the credit he deserves as a harmonic innovator. People just think of him as a bluesy soul jazz innovator. One quick listen to "Groovin' At Small's Paradise" would change all that for most people, especially when they look at the date of the recording.

The significance of November 1957 escapes me, I'm afraid. What am I missing?

MG

I guess that this is the same year that Coltrane was putting out Blue Trane and Lush Life. My point that Jimmy was on the leading edge of this sort of harmonic direction, with the main recorded evidence being "Groovin' At Smalls."

Ah, I'll have to try listening to Smalls and Blue Trane together some time. Thanks.

MG

[CJ Shearn]

yes, Jimmy's solos on Groovin at Smalls are staggering, when I hear JOS and Trane from this period, the similarities are evident to me.

[.:.impossible]

Wow, I'll NEVER sell my Jimmy Smith albums. To each his own.

The only organist I really listen to is Larry Young. Sorry to Jim, and everybody else!

Don't apologize to me. I feel sorry for you! You're really missing out on some great music! Just off the top of my head (and keeping it to "newer" organists in the non-Jimmy Smith mold):

Larry Goldings - One of the few people who's releases I buy the instant they come out. He always makes interesting records with great originals that warrant repeated listenings. And he really uses the drawbars on the organ to coax different and unique sounds.

Sam Yahel - His work in his own trio and with Joshua Redman in Yaya3 is fantastic. Another organist who is not afraid to push the boundaries, experiment with different sounds, and separate himself from the Jimmy Smith club.

Dan Wall - A truly original voice on the instrument. Check out his work with tenor saxophonist Jerry Bergonzi.

Medeski, Martin, & Wood - People dismiss them as a "jamband" or novelty, but they aren't listening. Medeski is one of the most influential keyboardists on the planet right now.

Jared Gold - He has not recorded much, but there is a really great record on the label that organissimo used to be on, PKO Records, with guitarist Randy Napoleon, which is very very nice.

Joe Bagg - A member of Anthony Wilson's trio... again, not too many recordings, but his playing is very cliche-free.

and of course...

organissimo - C'mon... you gotta buy at least one of our records!!

Even though he hasn't recorded much, I would add Flanigin to your list of contemporaries.