Copperopolis

[Big Wheel]

  akanalog said:

hunter sort of reminds me of kirk's case without the context to make it more legit (as far as the political and cultural environments surrounding kirk's career)....

Translation: "Music made by a young middle-class* white guy from California doesn't meet my authenticity threshhold, therefore I'm incapable of appreciating it on its own terms."

*Actually, Hunter didn't grow up "middle-class" at all, according to his online bio.

Edited February 6, 2006 by Big Wheel

[johnagrandy]

  Big Wheel said:

  akanalog said:

hunter sort of reminds me of kirk's case without the context to make it more legit (as far as the political and cultural environments surrounding kirk's career)....

Translation: "Music made by a young middle-class* white guy from California doesn't meet my authenticity threshhold, therefore I'm incapable of appreciating it on its own terms."

*Actually, Hunter didn't grow up "middle-class" at all, according to his online bio.

Hunter wasn't middle class. When I knew him the dude was starving to death. Also, he isn't white. He's some percentage latin, like 50% or something.

Edited February 6, 2006 by johnagrandy

[Guest akanalog]

well yeah i would say that charlie hunter is not authentic enough for me, but that isn't the point. that definitley factors into my thinking regarding hunter but he isn't really doing anything where authenticity is really important.

johnagrandy, i am very impressed with the way you laid it down. thank you for laying it down like that. good thoughts.

[AllenLowe]

the authenticity thing is quicksand - just listen to the music and decided if THAT is authentic - it will sound the same whether or not you can figure out his ethnic percentages -

[Dr. Rat]

Myself, after having been around the block with this sort of argument over many times--over literature and music--I just don't give any weight whatsoever to arguments that seem to assume some sort of absolute opposition between money and art. To me this sort of argument actually denies the distinction between the two things. I think art and money are two different things. Art can make money. Art can be made with the intention of making money. Art can be made by people who are far more immediately concerned with money than with art. Why? Because art and money are two separate things. Can they conflict? Yes. Must they? No.

People who deny this, I find, are more concerned with money than art. Though these folks can still make art, they make very shallow and uninteresting arguments about art.

I am also always deeply suspicious of aesthetic arguments based on notions of purity or authenticity. My own notion is that art is generally impure and in some sense inauthentic by its very nature.

Though it'd take a lot of arguing to show why I think that, I'd start by just saying that it is no coincidence that our forebears often used the word/concept "art" interchangibly with "artifice" which is the word behind artificial.

[Guest akanalog]

last thing i'll say-

why can't anyone be tom scott or the crusaders anymore?

back when there were people who occupied that grey area between substance and chuck mangione.

today everything has to be more than it is. but you can listen to a tom scott record and enjoy it on some levels if not all levels, while realizing it's a good time and not much more. no one wants to listen to tom scott anymore.

[johnagrandy]

  akanalog said:

last thing i'll say-

why can't anyone be tom scott or the crusaders anymore?

back when there were people who occupied that grey area between substance and chuck mangione.

today everything has to be more than it is. but you can listen to a tom scott record and enjoy it on some levels if not all levels, while realizing it's a good time and not much more. no one wants to listen to tom scott anymore.

Chuck was a Messenger !!!!!!

[Guest akanalog]

hey i like buttercorn lady.

but that was pretty early on.

[johnagrandy]

Man, I can't even motivate myself to listen to Copperopolis a third time. What is going on with Hunter? Like I said before, maybe he needs to head out to a bridge Rollins style.

[johnagrandy]

Looks like Ellis has left Hunter's trio ... very recently ... 1st paragraph:

JOHN ELLIS ASCENDS

"BY A THREAD"

ON HIS NEW ALBUM

DUE MAY 9TH ON HYENA RECORDS

Brooklyn, NY -- A bright, darting melody springs from John Ellis' soprano saxophone and before the phrase reaches its natural conclusion his band enters with a circular double-time groove. It's an invigorating excursion fueled by compelling harmonic counterpoint and shifting rhythmic textures. The song is "Ferris Wheel" and it opens the brand new album, By A Thread, from one of jazz music's most prolific young voices, John Ellis. To be released May 9th on HYENA Records, Ellis is joined on the recording by his "New York City" quintet featuring Aaron Goldberg on piano, Mike Moreno on guitar, Reuben Rogers on bass and Terreon Gully on drums. It also marks the arrival of John Ellis as a full-time band leader, having recently left his post as tenor saxophonist with the widely popular Charlie Hunter Trio, of which he's been a member for the last five years.

With By A Thread, John Ellis follows up his critically-acclaimed One Foot In The Swamp, and he does so by largely shifting courses from its funk-laden predecessor. This time around, he dives deeper into harmonically complex waters, but true to his distinct voice as a songwriter, Ellis never sacrifices his penchant for classic hooks. "Little Giggles" is a sure contender for his most memorable melody yet with its sweet sing-song head that's as soulful as it is sweeping. On "Umpty Eleven," the quintet's front-line harmonize on a contagious lead line set atop of an easy rolling shuffle. The aforementioned "Ferris Wheel" is a full-tilt burner that lets the band stretch out, yet always returns full-circle to its soaring refrain.

"I wasn't particularly trying to make a jazz record, a funk record, a world music record, but rather to make a record that is an honest attempt to create a personal sound," state Ellis. "Personally, I love music that falls into many different categories, so the goal was really just to create good music."

By A Thread is marked by compositions that are often cinematic, creating uniquely palpable moods and atmospheres from one song to the next. "Swirl" is aptly titled with a dreamy progression that gently floats and flutters. It's a trait that has appeared before in Ellis' music, perhaps inspired by the wide open spaces of his childhood in rural North Carolina. A counterbalance is the film noirish aura of "Wishing Well" on which Ellis plays bass clarinet. It seems to suggest an open-ended story line that doesn't so much tell a tale as it hints at unsolved mysteries before disappearing altogether.

Another distinct element of By A Thread is the focus on group dynamic. Ellis and his quintet largely fly without a net, leaving behind the special guests and studio perfections of his previous outings. Recorded in just two days, the band is clearly in command of the material and consequently they navigate the tunes improvised sections with confidence and finesse. The quintet's players and instrumentation remain consistent from track to track. The major variable is Ellis who alternates between soprano and tenor saxophone, bass clarinet and ocarina. "Tall Drink Of Water" and "Old Man" are especially good examples as they take their own sweet time to organically expand, evolve and resolve. The former slowly builds section by section into a terse drum and bass rattle highlighted by Mike Moreno's thoroughly post modern guitar flights of fancy. The latter contains a rapturous piano solo by Aaron Goldberg amid the group's flowing interplay that masterfully morphs between colors and textures as the tune unfolds.

"By A Thread was recorded after a series of weekly gigs at the Knitting Factory’s Tap Bar. During those gigs I had the opportunity to develop some new music and to play with some different musicians who lived in New York City. I had wanted to get a band together here that I felt as strong about as the group I had been working with in New Orleans. The idea was to make a record that was more a document of a working band," explains Ellis. "I had also been rediscovering, perhaps even craving, harmony after playing so much rhythm-based music (with Charlie Hunter), and so I had some tunes that drew more from that element of my playing than on my previous Hyena record."

But before the funkier side of John Ellis' musical personality is altogether dismissed, one must look no further then the slithery, down-tempo groove on "Lonnie." While not the New Orleans-flavored funk that's become his signature, it surely makes clear that a funky underbelly is part and parcel of Ellis' approach. Here, Aaron Goldberg jumps to Fender Rhodes and Terreon Gully holds down a syncopated pulse on cowbell, while Ellis' deeply resonant tenor is front and center. The album closer, "Moore's Alphabet," written for Galactic drummer Stanton Moore, also delivers a funk-heavy, feel-good groove that brings By A Thread to a close with an exclamation point.

"By A Thread as a title gets to the point of where everything is at on so many different levels. It describes this vulnerable tightrope walking feeling that improvising can have, and that making a record as a process of discovery can also have. As you hang on for dear life, you cultivate, above all, a feeling of trust with the musicians you're playing with," concludes Ellis. "Successful music, which I feel comes through you rather than from you, requires risk-taking and in that risk exists the capacity for failure. You have to accept that in order to succeed in my opinion. Falling is always a possibility. You hang on by a thread."

[Jazz Kat]

  akanalog said:

those lists are for young hippies who dont know anything.

.

Not for, it just appeals to them. I just went to an MMW concert. They played great, and there was a lot of intricate things going on. Unfortunately, the room was filled with pot smoking hippies, who will dance to anything.

[Jazz Kat]

I'm thinking of getting the new album. I loved Friends Seen And Unseen so much. This group he has now is my favorite group Hunter has had yet. I understand this album is more rocking. I don't think much musical intelligence is going on in this album though. Just funky grooves.

[johnagrandy]

  Jazz Kat said:

I'm thinking of getting the new album. I loved Friends Seen And Unseen so much. This group he has now is my favorite group Hunter has had yet. I understand this album is more rocking. I don't think much musical intelligence is going on in this album though. Just funky grooves.

No disrespect at all to Hunter , but I actually recommend that you pick up both of John Ellis' CDs before any of the recent CH trio CDs. As much as I am a Hunter fan, there is no question there is an increasing static quality over the last 3 CH trio albums. Despite the marketing , Copperopolis does not rock at all. It's really a continung evolution of the same Hunter trio style pioneered 10 years ago. However, it's no longer fresh to my ears. If you like Hunter trio, the very early CDs are better, in my opinion.

Ellis is more in pioneering mode right now. That's why I figured he'd leave Hunter soon ... and indeed he did.

However, the expanded instrumentation on CH "Right Now Move" really works and gets some unique results ! (Especially Gregoire Maret contributions on chromatic harmonica). That's a great listen.

No diss to Hunter ... he'll come up with something new soon that will blow everyone away. He's a true innovator ... maybe in a bit of a slump right now.

Edited March 9, 2006 by johnagrandy

[Aggie87]

Check out his work on the Groundtruther cds. I like them better than any of his other current recordings. To my ears quite a bit different than the other stuff.