PRINCE

[Shawn]

Don't hurt me, but I've always prefered (by far) Pearl Jam to Nirvana.

...and Soundgarden was better than either of them.

One of my friends used to say that there should be a road sign outside of Seattle that reads "Welcome to Seattle, Please Tune Down To D"

[johnagrandy]

You do realize that you picked non-Cobain lyrics, no? Can you pronounce Leadbelly? Seriously, even the Grateful Dead was covering this in their early years.

Nope, you are incorrect. The lyrics I posted are the exact lyrics Kurt sang live at the MTV Unplugged session. I listened to the CD right before I wrote them into the post and I just listened again and they're correct. Dig up the CD and listen yourself.

Since that was an all acoustic session, I consider that to be the best easily obtained representation of Kurt's version of Black Girl.

Kurt did sing other Black Girl lyrics variations ... just like everyone else in history. But the way he screamed the final verses is stunning -- an emotional catharsis perhaps unprecedented by any other rendition. Listening to it rips right into your soul.

My point is that a lot of older well-known and respected musicians, poets, critics, writers, whomever -- outside of the grunge scene -- gave Kurt serious respect. If you're not into Nirvana, cool, doesn't bother me at all. My central point is that what Kurt had to say can really mean something when you're down and out, or alone, or massively angry at the world. Kurt saved a lot of people's asses.

Kurt was the real deal.

Edited April 4, 2006 by johnagrandy

[7/4]

You do realize that you picked non-Cobain lyrics, no? Can you pronounce Leadbelly? Seriously, even the Grateful Dead was covering this in their early years.

Nope, you are incorrect. The lyrics I posted are the exact lyrics Kurt sang live at the MTV Unplugged session. I listened to the CD right before I wrote them into the post and I just listened again and they're correct. Dig up the CD and listen yourself.

Since that was an all acoustic session, I consider that to be the best easily obtained representation of Kurt's version of Black Girl.

Kurt did sing other Black Girl lyrics variations ... just like everyone else in history. But the way he screamed the final verses is stunning -- an emotional catharsis perhaps unprecedented by any other rendition. Listening to it rips right into your soul.

My point is that a lot of older well-known and respected musicians, poets, critics, writers, whomever -- outside of the grunge scene -- gave Kurt serious respect. If you're not into Nirvana, cool, doesn't bother me at all. My central point is that what Kurt had to say can really mean something when you're down and out, or alone, or massively angry at the world. Kurt saved a lot of people's asses.

Kurt was the real deal.

I'd rather listen to Meditations.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

You do realize that you picked non-Cobain lyrics, no? Can you pronounce Leadbelly? Seriously, even the Grateful Dead was covering this in their early years.

Nope, you are incorrect. The lyrics I posted are the exact lyrics Kurt sang live at the MTV Unplugged session. I listened to the CD right before I wrote them into the post and I just listened again and they're correct. Dig up the CD and listen yourself.

Since that was an all acoustic session, I consider that to be the best easily obtained representation of Kurt's version of Black Girl.

Kurt did sing other Black Girl lyrics variations ... just like everyone else in history.

NO, .:. is the correct one here with vast knowledge of history.

not a fan of ye w/ the buckshot uvula but it's an easy google to confirm the right answer, unless of course a cover song becomes the property of the messenger? sheesh!

[Guest akanalog]

jagrandy, has this thread become "performance art"?

[johnagrandy]

This is fucking stupid. I don't even think any of you ever even saw Nirvana ... let alone stage dived. Go do your thing. I'll do mine.

[Guest akanalog]

so you are playing the role of the nirvana fan who doesn't actually know anything about nirvana?

a fair weather nirvana fan, so to speak?

i am not trying to sap you of your dignity here. just trying to figure out what the hell is going on in this thread.

[7/4]

This is fucking stupid. I don't even think any of you ever even saw Nirvana ... let alone stage dived. Go do your thing. I'll do mine.

Promise?

[.:.impossible]

Notice the guy in the bottom left corner with the helmet on! I haven't ever seen Nirvana, I haven't ever stage dived, and I haven't ever worn a helmet to a show. Still, those lyrics are not written by Cobain.

I'm just saying... www.nirvanafreak.net article on In The Pines

[Man with the Golden Arm]

that's a true fan!

[Joe G]

BIG fan!

[Quincy]

It looks like I have 40 bootlegs of Nirvana, so yeah, I like(d) them just a little bit. But as far as being an original ground breaking band....um, I don't know about that. Part of the appeal was a lead singer who was a terrific screamer, who could play guitar in a raw but not necessarily technically proficient manner who at his best wrote lyrics that were often confusing (the best kind), a big goofy bass player and finally settling in with a pretty damn good drummer. They seemed adapt at borrowing the good parts of better bands and tossing out what didn't work. They listened to a lot of Beatles in their van on one of their tours, and it shows in a number of their tunes (believe it or not) at least through Nevermind. Later on Kurt became overly obsessed with the whole birth process and focused way too much on sickness & diseases, but hey, when you have a catalog smaller than Hendrix's and you croak too young those kind of things stick out.

I hadn't intended to read it but a friend insisted that I borrow his copy of Heavier Than Heaven (the Cobain bio by the same guy who did one on Hendrix.) I have a feeling Mr. Grady hasn't read it, otherwise I think he'd be a little more tempered in his opinions of Cobain. It's not a hatchet job by any means, but it certainly makes him very human, especially where the desire for fame vs. art is concerned, along with a very unhealthy appetite for escapism through drugs.

All that said, the version of "In The Pines" on Nirvana Unplugged is magnificent. Even better if you can see the video where Kurt takes that breath before the shiver. It's legendary stuff, and it's why Nirvana fans can go on a bit about how tremendous it is.

[.:.impossible]

I don't think I'd be exaggerating if I thought that the majority of my age group has that Nirvana Unplugged session imprinted forever in their memory. It was certainly a strong performance.

[johnagrandy]

I hadn't intended to read it but a friend insisted that I borrow his copy of Heavier Than Heaven (the Cobain bio by the same guy who did one on Hendrix.) I have a feeling Mr. Grady hasn't read it, otherwise I think he'd be a little more tempered in his opinions of Cobain. It's not a hatchet job by any means, but it certainly makes him very human, especially where the desire for fame vs. art is concerned, along with a very unhealthy appetite for escapism through drugs.

Yeah, I read it, and it's ok. But there really aren't any good Kurt bios yet. Just like there aren't any Woody bios. Both men are too tough to figure out.

And human was the whole point. Kurt was human in every vulnerable manifestation of our existence and he put it all on display for the world to see. It wasn't contrived. He hated the image he became. He hated being an icon for junkies.

And the band's the same. Do you track Dave and Krist? True believers for life.

Yeah, Kurt probably had an ego. Anyone who can go on stage in complete madness in the biggest venues in the world has got to have an ego. But escapism? Sorry man, I disagree. Escape from mundanity, no. Escape from hell, yes. The man was going insane.

Because of their massive popularity and the general stereotypes of the rock superstar life, it's very easy to rationalize Kurt and Nirvana into something they were not. Anyone who was there at the time knows that ain't what it was about.

As far as borrowing from other bands ... who gives a ? How many greats came up with their own stuff ? Woody sure seems like it, but if you listen to enough Dolphy, Tyner, Stockhausen, Kodaly you start figuring it out.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...nirvana&pl=true

[Quincy]

As far as borrowing from other bands ... who gives a ? How many greats came up with their own stuff ?

Woody sure seems like it, but if you listen to enough Dolphy, Tyner, Stockhausen, Kodaly you start figuring it out.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...nirvana&pl=true

I intended that (taking what was good, tossing the rest) as a compliment. Too many take the wrong parts and throw out the good stuff. I guess I'm wrong but I got the impression from your earlier posts that Nirvana invented something completely original. Which I don't think is the case, though I love what they came up with.

[Soulstation1]

anyone buy prince's new cd?

[Aggie87]

Anyone pick up Prince's new cd?

anyone buy prince's new cd?

Echo....echo....echo

[JSngry]

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...ndpost&p=489761

[johnagrandy]

so you are playing the role of the nirvana fan who doesn't actually know anything about nirvana?

a fair weather nirvana fan, so to speak?

i am not trying to sap you of your dignity here. just trying to figure out what the hell is going on in this thread.

I posted Kurt's "Black Girl" lyrics to show that "crying about life" is at the roots of American music -- specifically African-American music (since that's the only real American music there is, in my opinion). Yes, the lyrics are the same as one of Leadbelly's versions, whom Kurt idolized, but c'mon man !, everyone here must know that no one knows where those lyrics originated.

What one man calls "crying about life" I call being human.

I don't know Nirvana like the hardcore does, like the guys at http://www.nirvana2.com do ... every tour, every show, every detail ... I don't have a whole lot of interest in a lot of what the biographers and critics have to say about him ... that's not my interest in Kurt.

My interest in Kurt is intrinsically tied to my interest in myself. I've spent many many years trying to "figure out" Kurt -- and he is way way more complex that most people think ... even the hardcore Nirvana fans. He is one of the most fascinating people of the 20th century.

There are layers and layers of disparate intentionally unresolvably conflicting meanings somehow all meshed together in his lyrics and his raw communication. As philosophy, it is impossible, but as music it is a twisted paradox, but one that can be solved.

People concentrate on the wrong aspects of Nirvana. They misunderstand that Kurt saw his own image vs reality, saw the band's image vs reality, saw the fan base's image vs reality, saw the industry's image vs reality, saw it all far far better than any of those components were capable of perceiving each other. He saw it all. Achieving "the mirror" is the ultimate trick in life ... but it can kill you just as easily as it can self-empower you.

I believe that early on Kurt perceived the disastrous philosophical flaws in the "solutions" offered by most hard rock, heavy metal, punk, alternative, underground, etc. music to youthful angst and anger ... music so intensely relevant to most rebels at the time that it becomes apparent how life will *most probably* unfold is revealed. (And if we all think back, this really is the greatest revelation we ever experience in life).

Nirvana parodied their element as much as they embodied it. Yeah, some say they killed hair metal and all its pretentiousness, some say they were part of the 2nd or 3rd rebirth of punk, etc. I don't know. I'm not a historian in this area. I definitely don't think they intended any grand accomplishments.

What I do think I have figured out is that Kurt was timeless and perhaps unprecedented in his ability to capture the massive need of *aware* youth to express their unrationalizable distaste for what life inevitably had in store for them (or how they perceived they would experience it as it unfolded) ... their incredible desire to live something *anything* REAL , NOW , before it's too late ...

... but at the same time Kurt recognized that these musics (especially taken on aggregate) offerred no real solutions for becoming an adult.

Compare Nirvana with the psychotic megalomania of a band like Metallica and maybe you'll get closer to where I'm thinking.

It is no accident that Burroughs took a strong interest in Kurt's music and lyrics. Burroughs the brilliant but decadent nihlist who continued on with what many of even the hippest cats would consider a depraved existence far into truly old age. It's easy to forget that maybe all of us are living out a life that when young we despised the thought of living. To his credit, Burroughs never forgot. To his discredit, he never got past disillusionment.

Their collaboration is partial proof that what Kurt was getting at in the later years was approaching the truly sublime. The territory reserved for musicial geniuses, many of whom are discussed on these boards.

I could write probably 10,000 more words ... but I don't think too many here want to read them. Many jazz afficionados wonder why the masses "don't get it" ... but they themselves become so locked up in their elitist cocoons that they can't "get" anything else but jazz.

You never stop being young because you "never figure it out until its too late to apply it". On your deathbed, you're still young.

Forget that you're still young -- no matter what -- and Kurt will make no sense to you. But if don't forget, then maybe what he had to say will mean something.

[JSngry]

I posted Kurt's "Black Girl" lyrics to show that "crying about life" is at the roots of American music -- specifically African-American music (since that's the only real American music there is, in my opinion).

So, what is Ralph Stanley?

[johnagrandy]

So, what is Ralph Stanley?

So, who totalled their Enzo racing on Highway 1 in Malibu in February ?

[HolyStitt]

anyone buy prince's new cd?

I bought it the first day it came out, but have only played it once. I thought the CD started great and then went nowhere.

Maybe my expectations are too high from the run of albums he had up to the mid-nineties, but to me, he used to bat in the .700 or better range and now it seems he is stuck somewhere in the minor leagues.

[JSngry]

So, what is Ralph Stanley?

So, who totalled their Enzo racing on Highway 1 in Malibu in February ?

I have no idea.

Relevance connection, please?

[danasgoodstuff]

This thread has certainly turned into a lovely study in the nature of obcession. but then I don't think that Prince is all that, talented sure, but still not all that, now or ever. And Kurt is no more tortured or complex than me or the next guy and a worse blooze singer than Keith Relf or John Mayall and with a much less interesting band than either of them. Gimmee Sly Stone AND the Stanley Bros.

[Michael Weiss]

Went to hear Maceo Parker in Prospect Park tonight and guess who joins the band for an encore?

Edited June 16, 2006 by Michael Weiss